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The Trickster strikes again!

You know, it occurs to me that probably the best way to determine if this was pure chance would be to send divers into (say) 20 ponds in the same vicinity and see if any more bodies turn up. If none do, then the odds of hitting on a body by chance would seem remote. But if dumping corpses in these ponds is not an uncommon activity, then maybe chance would explain the "hit."

Sadly, I doubt anyone will want to run this test. A less precise but also less arduous alternative would be to look at the homicide statistics for the area. If homicides are very rare, then the likelihood of finding a murder victim would seem low. If murders are pretty common, then maybe there are bodies lying around everywhere!

It's definitely a hit, but the Randi-style argument would be to focus only on the negative and deny anything.

Of course, had it been the right body, then it just would have been "chance" anyway. ;)

Sadly, I doubt anyone will want to run this test.

Sadly? No offense, but ew! Would you want to be tasked with looking in a bunch of ponds for dead bodies?

Remember the classic tabloid headline in NYC from the 70s? "Headless body found in topless bar"

The psychic was an Aboriginal. I just finished rereading a book on Australian Aboriginals in my library, Primitive Psychic Power: The realities underlying the psychical practices and beliefs of Australian aborigines (originally Living Magic, 1956), by Ronald Rose. Used copies are very cheap on Amazon. There's lots of food for thought in it, including lots of intelligent skepticism and debunkery. (Many "magical" effects are attributed to hypnotism.) There are also favorable ESP test results, and the insight provided by long-term, intimate association with tribal life and lore.

Pure chance imo. The psychic said she had a premonition about the child. Big difference between a child and an adult dismembered body.

Here are some teaser-excerpts from Rose’s book:

“The aborigines have developed the art of contemplation to a degree that we cannot appreciate or even understand. Their whole way of life is patterned on concepts of rigid mental discipline. Their outlook is continually and consistently toward the enhancement of the personality. Tribal natives go through life with the minimum of material possessions … with a racial serenity that … is mystifying and impressive.”
(p. 22)

“Most impressive of these men was Winjin, a clever-man of wide repute. At times his eyes held a look of gentle melancholy; at other times they could pierce with a look of terrifying fierceness. … When he spoke his pronouncements had an air of finality about them.

“He spoke infrequently. Indeed, on my first meeting with him, he spoke but two words.”
(p. 60)

“Winjin claimed … he could go out into the bush and, having seen, say, a kangaroo, he could fix his eye on it so that after a while it became ‘silly’ and he was able to spear it with ease.”
(p. 74)

“Bluntly I put it to Fred Cowlin that these were the methods he used, emphasizing my charge by ‘extracting’ a twig from the doctor’s own arm. Smilingly he agreed, but immediately stressed the psychological point of view. ‘They bin get better all the same,’ he said.”
(p. 85)

“But the situation is confused somewhat by the concept of each native having a number of spirits. There is, for example, what might be termed the primary spirit or soul which existed before the birth of the native and at his death returns to the Dream Time, to totemic spirit groups, or to the god Baieme. There is also at least one secondary spirit … which is like a ghost. This survives usually for about three days, longer in the case of violent deaths, but then just disappears.
“Some strange beliefs have developed around the fact of death. One, for example, is that a dying man becomes suddenly invested with clairvoyant ability ….”
(pp. 126-27)

“She [Rene Robinson] said, … ‘I was sick near to death that night, all night. Then I had a dream that gave me a great understanding. I dreamt I was floating through the clouds, and some beautiful angel fellows came up to me. “Rene, you ain’t gonna die. You got to live a while yet. You gonna get well.”’”
(pp. 137-38)

“Aboriginals tend to derive principles from single experiences and observations, which is the very essence of superstitious thought, and do not critically test their assumptions. … Ideas of cause and effect are wide and fantastic. … Their outlook is such that they bow to a frequently imaginary fate.

“But that very outlook, that mode of thought, was precisely the sort of responsive thinking in which telepathy, if it existed, would be most likely to occur ….”
(p. 198)

“A statistical assessment was, we felt, very desirable, for science cannot waste its time with prolonged investigations or observations that would always be open to question.”
(p. 202)

“She [Lizzie Williams] was one of few natives who said, in effect, in response to our questionnaire, ‘No, I don’t believe I can know anything telepathically’—but she was the one native who produced clearcut, unequivocal evidence of that ability.

“Other natives obviously tried had … but granny was always relaxed and carefree. Perhaps this was the secret of her success.”
(p. 205)

“In the first series of [Zener card] tests at Woodenbong, Lizzie Williams made 1700 guesses. If chance alone had operated, she should have obtained somewhere about 340 hits. In actual fact, however, she scored 488. Now the odds against this occurring by chance are fantastically high. We were satisfied that our test conditions were foolproof.”
(p. 206)

“The tribal group scored very much better than the nontribal group.”
(p. 208)

Oops -- in the antepenultimate quote above, change "tried had" to "tried hard."

"Oops -- in the antepenultimate quote above, change "tried had" to "tried hard."

Ha! Ya screwed up! Yer entire post has lost all credibility! :-)

This is a HIT!

I have prophetic visions and dreams and 90% of the time its projected in symbolism. In fact it's a rare occurance that the person in one's minds eye is the exact person.

1) she picked the right pond
2) she picked the right sex (could have been a de capitated man instead.
3) she sensed something horiffic and decapitation fits that shoe.

The little girl represents the naivety and innocent nature that led to this lady being decapitated. Like a child who naturally trusts the people known to her, and would never imagine they would ever hurt her.

This woman was murdered by someone she knew well.

A man in this same situation would have been represented as a little boy.

Found this on an australian newspaper site (just a snippet of the arrticle, click the link for more info).

Her premonition was in fact a "dream". Which confirms my premonition ;)

A woman looking for missing Hebersham girl Kiesha Abrahams told police she was led to the remains of a woman in Doonside by a premonition.
Police reported that a woman, believed to be Aboriginal elder Cheryl Lagerwey, had a dream that the body of six-year-old Kiesha was in Nurragingy Reserve.

When Ms Lagerwey went with another community member to the site in her premonition at about 6pm on Wednesday evening, the pair made the grissly discovery of an adult woman's torso.

However one looks at it this seems an unusual occurrence to me.

If I read it correctly the information given includes:

a) Location - correct
b) Murdered - correct
c) Method of murder - correct;
d) Gender - correct;
e) Age - incorrect.

Given the nature of the discovery it seems to me that the inaccuracy is not so important in view of the extent of the correct information.

I wonder what the odds against that would be? It would also be useful to know how many times this medium had given this type of information before and been completely wrong. I suspect, given the Police appear to have been interested, that either such contact is not frequent or that the previous contacts were accurate, or maybe both.

The most amazing coincidences do seem to happen but this seems an unlikely coincidence to me.

"It would also be useful to know how many times this medium had given this type of information before and been completely wrong"

I wouldn't class her as a medium, in fact many people have prophetic dreams all the time. The premonition feeling the woman had, is the gut feeling one gets after waking up from a prophetic dream. It's strong and hard to ignore, whereas a regular dream we naturally let it fade to the "just another dream" pile.

The question is, where is that buggin feeling coming from? Is it spiritual intervention or something else?

This is a classic prophetic dream and in fact I believe the key to finding the murderer. Its very message like and I'm sure other bits of the dream will revel much more in identifying the killer, of course one has to have that gift of interpretation to decode it and that comes with experience and having many of them and watching them unfold and remembering what the symbols were saying. Its like being taught another language and we all can learn it if we begin to take notice and document our dreams and its symbolism, including our feelings after them.

ignore the word "gift" it's not the right word for what I believe. Its a skill that everyone can. We all have dreams, we all can take the "course" if were interested to learn.

I've been logging my anomalous experiences since April. What keeps surprising me is how precognitive many of the experiences are. You would think that by keeping a log I would have found the opposite to be true, since skeptics tend to suggest that we only remember what comes true and forget all the misses. I'm more likely to forget hits or just not even notice them at all.

"I'm more likely to forget hits or just not even notice them at all."

I've found that if I don't write down a "hit" immediately, or at least make a strong effort to engrave it in my memory, I will forget it within five or ten minutes. Later I'll dimly recall that some kind of hit was obtained, but I won't be able to recollect the details. It's like forgetting a dream.

My suspicion is that the mind rejects these events because they cause cognitive dissonance.

Where's the proof the child is even dead ? The reports all say she's still "missing". Like Maddie McCann, not one psychic has shown any evidence yet of being able to find a missing child.

This sorta reminds me of one of Psychic Detective Dorothy Allison's cases that I wrote about in my original article on her back in 2007. Except the verifiable details of the hits in her case were FAR more specific.

Also, it wasn't just that she picked up a different person's death than the original missing person she was focusing on, the amazing part was that she had picked up this other unrelated person's death *a couple of months before it actually happened*, and then she did it again soon afterwards with another missing girl in the same area before the other girl vanished too ...

Case VII: Foreseen Deaths of Two Teenage Girls

It all started in March 1991 when Dorothy Allison was called on a case of a missing teenage girl. She couldn't pick up anything on the original missing girl, but what she picked up instead was startling...

* What she saw was a vision of a girl dismembered and her various parts encased in cement. She said that one leg would be popping out.

* She later drove past a specific lake, and had a strong impression of a girl to whom something had happened, connected and part of the same vision.

However, there was no such discovery. At least not right away. It appeared to be a complete miss.

However, several months later, in June 1991, another teenage girl in the area went missing...

* Two weeks later, her body was discovered in the very same lake, dismembered, and encased in cement, each piece floating in a seperate block. (It was unverified however, if one leg was indeed "popping out" as Dorothy Allison had seen.)

So it seems she picked up nothing on the first missing girl, but had instead tuned into and seen the death of the second girl, months before it actually happened. A clear misdirected hit.

When Dorothy was contacted again, she stated that the body of another victim would soon be found. She said the girl would be strangled and that she would be found underneath some brush, where one could hear trickling water.

* Soon afterwards, another teenage girl nearby went missing, and two weeks after that, her nude body was found, strangled, underneath some brush, near a culvert.

Again, Dorothy's clues were given before the murder even happened.

Known Misses / Misdirections / Misinterpretations:

* She clearly picked up nothing in regards to the original missing girl she was there to investigate. She instead apparently picked up information on a girl who wasn't killed for another several months, and then on another girl who was later killed as well.

Has anyone considered a "file drawer effect" for this? I mean, all those times when visions and dreams don't lead to anything are NOT reported. When one lands a bullseye (or near bullseye, as in this case) it garners exposure.

Just putting that out there!

Having re-read it, the psychic didn't mention the method of murder. I still think it is interesting on the bare facts presented.

My suspicion is that the mind rejects these events because they cause cognitive dissonance.

You are probably correct. I find that if I read the older logs in my book, I don't remember a lot of what is in there. It is as if someone else wrote the thing.

I can understand my husband better now that I know how easily even I forget about these experiences. I used to get annoyed by how quickly he would forget after something weird happened. Now I understand that we all forget, but some of us are just a little faster.

I never forget anything... it's just recall I struggle with sometimes :)

"I've been logging my anomalous experiences since April. What keeps surprising me is how precognitive many of the experiences are."

Sandy, I've only ever logged the dreams that left a strong impression both good or bad,that stay strong in my thoughts, that I can recall many years later (like a NDE). I cant explain why this happens, it's just a knowingness that I need to pay attention.

But your probably right too log all of them. I dream virtually every night and when I was younger it was mostly nightmares. Thankfully these days they are far and few in between, but now out of curiousity I will begin to record my nightly dreams over the next six months to see whether there are any that are forcasting long term events like my other ones, or whether they are mostly messages relating to myself and immediate enviroment.

Hope, I don't record many of my dreams unless they seem important. Maybe I should. But I do record the really odd stuff. Things like RSPK.

I know the researchers that I'm working with look at these things in terms of environmental sensitivity. One thing I seem to react to is earthquakes. Not after the fact, but about three days beforehand. I suppose I could be reacting to tectonic pressures building up in my vicinity, which is a physical thing. But it is kind of interesting that I have what seems to be precognitive RSPK. Things in my house were shaking off and on for three days before we were actually hit by an earthquake. After the quake, things got quiet around here again.

Good luck recording your dreams, Hope. I'd be interested in any patterns you come up with.

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