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We are spiritual beings having a physical experience. This earth life is little more than a school to teach the soul what it means and how it feels to exist in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe (what time and space looks, sounds, feels, tastes, and smells like) what it means to be separate, unique, individual, and and make memories (by gathering bits of information) that will be shared and available in the spiritual universe to "re-create" whatever reality we might choose to experience.

“Anyone familiar with spiritualist teachings will not find very much that is new here, but it is uncommonly well expressed,”

Indeed very well expressed the difference between our soul body and physical body. It appears that the more advanced we are in love and intelligence which influences our vibration level the better we can control and even change the appearance of our etheric body. I.e. an adult etheric body appearing as a child to his or her parent in the process of crossing over.

“make memories (by gathering bits of information) that will be shared and available in the spiritual universe to "re-create" whatever reality we might choose to experience.”

This makes more sense to me Art then the idea we are here to just learn separation. We are creative beings. When I worked as a consultant I was continually amazed at how employees became creative enough to work around very outmoded, rigid systems and management styles.

I often wonder if lesser gods create life forms, planets, and galaxies until at such time they have advanced enough to merge or whatever with this pure awareness that most call God.

Maybe the lesser god that created we humans was a beginner god and went whoops after it created us. Desert humor again. I.e. dry.

There are also some notable consistencies with Sri Yukteswar’s descriptions of the astral body in Yogananda’s Autobiography of a Yogi. Consider these statements, juxtaposed with Findlay’s, excerpted from http://www.ananda.org/inspiration/books/ay/43.html>Chapter 43:

Findlay: “When, after the death change, the worn-out garment is laid aside, we stand, clothed in an etheric body, in our new abode.”

Yukteswar: “When the gross physical receptacle is destroyed by the hammer of death, the other two coverings-astral and causal-still remain . . . “

Findlay: “Our real brain is the etheric brain, through which the mind functions, and it acts through this whether we are in this world or the next.”

Yukteswar: "The astral body is not subject to cold or heat or other natural conditions. The anatomy includes an astral brain, or the thousand-petaled lotus of light, and six awakened centers in the sushumna, or astral cerebro-spinal axis. The heart draws cosmic energy as well as light from the astral brain, and pumps it to the astral nerves and body cells, or lifetrons.

Findlay: “Our etheric body is in every respect a duplicate of our physical body.”

Yukteswar: "The astral body is an exact counterpart of the last physical form. Astral beings retain the same appearance which they possessed in youth in their previous earthly sojourn.

Findlay: “This may seem strange at first, and I found it difficult to grasp until I understood the fact that the etheric is the real body on earth, and that from the moment of conception it has gathered round it physical matter, slowing vibration. Otherwise it could not have functioned in the physical world owing to its finer and more rapid vibrations.”

Yukteswar: “By condensation of vibratory forces, first subtle, then gross, (God) produced man's astral body and finally his physical form.”

Findlay: “The individual mind in the etheric world obtains in time such control over the etheric body that bodily deformations can be removed and cured by thought.”

Yukteswar: "Man's physical body is exposed to countless dangers, and is easily hurt or maimed; the ethereal astral body may occasionally be cut or bruised but is healed at once by mere willing."

The biggest difference is Yukteswar’s mention of the ‘causal body”, which he describes as “Indescribably subtle. In order to understand it, one would have to possess such tremendous powers of concentration that he could close his eyes and visualize the astral cosmos and the physical cosmos in all their vastness as existing in ideas only. If by this superhuman concentration one succeeded in converting or resolving the two cosmoses with all their complexities into sheer ideas, he would then reach the causal world and stand on the borderline of fusion between mind and matter.”

As an aside, it occurred to me as I was reading this that these ideas might explain the ‘phantom limb’ phenomena often reported by amputees. Perhaps this sensation is caused by the physical mind responding to information provided by the astral mind, thus creating a conflict between the knowledge that a limb is missing, and the sensation that it’s still there. Maybe the individual senses the limb as intact because it actually is intact from the perspective of the higher self.

Interesting quotes, Michael H. Thanks.

You're welcome, MP - It sure seems to me to go well beyond coincidence when there's this much consistency from two separate, distinct sources. Not to mention that these come from two worldviews, Hindu and Spiritualist, that most people would consider to be in conflict.

“Not to mention that these come from two worldviews, Hindu and Spiritualist, that most people would consider to be in conflict.”

Michael H do you consider Hindu and Spiritualist in conflict and if you do in what areas.

Thank you
William

I attended self realization services for about 6 months and went out to stay with the their monks for several weeks in California on their herb farm. Was surprised to learn they were teaching that a personal devil exists. They do not allow anyone to challenge their beliefs but you can ask one question per week with no follow up questions.

When I asked a long drawn out question about a personal devil the head monk just laughed and did not have an answer for me other than that must be what God allows. Don’t remember their “master” teaching that aspect of self-realization. If you are into meditation self-realization is the place to be.

Actually, William, I don't consider any spiritual or mystical thought to be in conflict, if someone looks deeply enough. I've said before that all religious thought points to truth, but that none is truth. It's not a small distinction, but it sure appears to me that few really grasp it.

I do think that Yogananda's http://www.ananda.org/inspiration/books/ay/index.html>Autobiography is an excellent spiritual primer, and that his illustrations of the parallels between Christianity and Hindu thought are outstanding. At the same time, I think the SRF has shifted to the "our way is the only way" mindset that plagues all religions. I was very disturbed when I discovered certain editorial changes that had been made to subsequent editions of AY following Yogananda's death. For that reason, I always suggest to anyone considering purchasing the book to get the original version, which is available on the website that's linked above. (The entire original text is available online also).

"Astral beings retain the same appearance which they possessed in youth in their previous earthly sojourn." - Yukteswar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A couple of years ago I had a dream about my decease father. He died of cardiomyopathy in 1984 at the age of 65. In my dream my dad is sitting on a stool in a brightly lit white room. When I see him I say to him, "Gee Dad you look great!" He replied to me, "Guess what Artie? I'm 28!" That was my entire dream. What I found uplifting and memorable about the dream is that my dad had been really thin and debilitated toward the end of his life. He had a stroke from his medicine and he got pneumonia in the nursing home, and after he died, when I saw him in his casket at his funeral his skin was blue. But, in my dream he was perfect, and he said to me, "Guess what Artie! I'm 28". I think that must have been the time in his life when he was the most happy and at his physical peak.

“I think that must have been the time in his life (28) when he was the most happy and at his physical peak.”

Your dad at 28 may have been the time of his life. Thanks for sharing that Art. My research indicates that often those that have crossed over before us appear to us in dreams at the prime of their adult life.

For me my son was one year old when I was 28 and watching my son learn and grow and now watching my son as father and husband is truly a joy. I often wonder if these lesser gods or even God receive tremendous joy at watching It’s manifested creation advance and grow in consciousness. I know I have with my son and now with my grandchildren.

It seems to me that even if we can come to understand the littlest joys in life they give us inspiring clues into the meaning of life.

Food for thought:

Do we have ethereal organs? If the physical body is like a covering, what about the function of things like the brain? Or our sensory organs? Do we hear with our ears and see with our eyes in the afterlife?

In other words, does the ethereal body exist entirely just to give us souls a form, a divine fashion, or does it serve a natural purpose as well?

In other words, does the ethereal body exist entirely just to give us souls a form, a divine fashion, or does it serve a natural purpose as well? - Cyrus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I suspicion it may be a matter of choice? Just guessing but I think that EVERYTHING that happens in this physical life is a lesson for the next life, and I think the aches and pains we experience while alive are imprinting or encoding "bits of information" that will be available (in the shared interconnected sense) to be used on the other side to create whatever reality we might wish to experience. If the Spiritual Universe is a place where thoughts are things and consciousness creates reality, where matter is an epiphenomena of consciousness, then perhaps the memories we are imprinting on our souls right now, in this life, will be what we use to create our own reality after we cross back over into the Spiritual Universe. This is difficult to explain but in life many things are a matter of degree. A caress is just a hit that has been "toned down," the difference between being burned and being warm is a matter of degree, the difference between "cool" and being "cold" is a matter of degree. Perhaps the information we gather while alive is something like that. The aches and pains we garner while alive may be storing information, and after we cross over we'll be able to use little bits of that information to "create" or own reality. We'll be able to use just enough of the information from the more painful moments of life to create a more pleasureable reality on the other side. I suspicion it is so.

> Do we have ethereal organs? If the physical
> body is like a covering, what about the
> function of things like the brain? Or our
> sensory organs? Do we hear with our ears
> and see with our eyes in the afterlife?

From NDEs, the message seems to be that we can take on any form we like in the afterlife.

Yukteswar describes the astral and causal realms in fairly involved detail in Chapter 43 linked above. Here's what he has to say regarding Cyrus's question:

"Unlike the spacial, three-dimensional physical world cognized only by the five senses, the astral spheres are visible to the all-inclusive sixth sense-intuition," Sri Yukteswar went on. "By sheer intuitional feeling, all astral beings see, hear, smell, taste, and touch. They possess three eyes, two of which are partly closed. The third and chief astral eye, vertically placed on the forehead, is open. Astral beings have all the outer sensory organs-ears, eyes, nose, tongue, and skin-but they employ the intuitional sense to experience sensations through any part of the body; they can see through the ear, or nose, or skin. They are able to hear through the eyes or tongue, and can taste through the ears or skin, and so forth"

He also seems to confirm Tony's comment regarding certain NDE reports:

"Beauty in the astral world is known to be a spiritual quality, and not an outward conformation," Sri Yukteswar replied. "Astral beings therefore attach little importance to facial features. They have the privilege, however, of costuming themselves at will with new, colorful, astrally materialized bodies. Just as worldly men don new array for gala events, so astral beings find occasions to bedeck themselves in specially designed forms."

He spends quite some time expressing that the inhabitants of the higher realms derive nourishment and other sensory fulfillment from light itself.

Yukteswar describes a very elaborate variety of astral realms, which is also mentioned by Mellen-Thomas Benedict in his NDE account. Michael Tymn also had a blog post a couple months ago, where he shared a conversation with Steve Beckow, who's assembling a http://metgat.gaia.com/blog/2008/4/no_humdrum_heaven_no_hellfire_says_afterlife_cartographer>cartography of the afterlife realms from descriptions taken from diverse sources. Tymn provided a link to http://www.angelfire.com/space2/light11/index.html>Beckow's research.

I think it's important to consider that there appears to be virtually unlimited experiential levels of existence. I'd also point out that these levels are described as ultimately dependent on the 'state of mind' of the inhabitants by many masters and schools of thought. The Tibetan Book of the Dead is a good example of an attempt at astral cartography that emphasizes this.

As quoted above, Yukteswar tells us that from the perspective of the realm above the astral, which he calls the 'causal', one understands "the astral cosmos and the physical cosmos in all their vastness as existing in ideas only."

Michael H wrote, As an aside, it occurred to me as I was reading this that these ideas might explain the ‘phantom limb’ phenomena often reported by amputees.

Rupert Sheldrake has an interesting discussion of phantom limbs here.

Thanks for the link, MP. Sheldrake is one of the more open-minded, and consequently deeper thinkers in science today. One comment in this article jumped out at me:

For a committed materialist or mechanist, the brain theory is not so much a hypothesis as an article of faith: it must be true. Institutional medicine is still under the sway of the mechanistic theory, and hence the official view, taught to amputees by doctors and in hospitals, is that the phantom phenomenon is located inside the brain.

Dawkins, Dennett, Pinker and their ilk would do well to consider this statement. I can't imagine how these men would react to the suggestion that they are operating from a standpoint of faith.

I'm afraid that for most people, the more highly developed the intellect, the more certain one becomes of their particular version of reality. Sheldrake deserves immense credit for his willingness to continue to wonder.

“Do we hear with our ears and see with our eyes in the afterlife?”

I suspect that we hear with our ethereal ears and see with our ethereal eyes in this physical life and in the afterlife. And the same applies for the brain without the ethereal or spiritual vitality the brain is just “lifeless” matter.

It appears to me that consciousness is fundamental with matter and even our ethereal bodies as a creation or manifestation or both of consciousness. Also I suspect that the underlying reality of matter is consciousness and the underlying reality of consciousness is pure awareness or spirit.

Without unawareness there is no us, just is. Stated another way without ignorance there is no us just isness.

Physical, Astral, Causal, Mental, Etheric...

These are the 5 lower-world bodies, the worlds of time, space, motion, matter.

None of these are ultimately real. They are all Maya. They are meant to be dropped and transcended.

The body beyond time, space, motion, matter is the Soul Body, the Atman Sarup. Difficult to talk about, but still a unique spark of God.

This model of bodies works better for me simply because it provides a means to experience Soul apart from the other bodies. That experience transcends most scripture and esoteric literature.

None of these are ultimately real.

Precisely, Mark. The trick is that each of them seems entirely real from the perspective that is unique to them. And the higher one goes on the continuum, the 'realer' the experience.

“And the higher one goes on the continuum, the 'realer' the experience.”

Many if not most that come through from the other side tell us that their life is “realer” now then when they were in their physical body. I know now, as an older; ok old man when I look back at my memories of my life it appears more as a dream then reality. Many older people I talk to tell me the same thing.

The dream analogy may be a good one for our physical life.

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