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I recommend the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" trans. by Charles Luk.

Interesting posting. I feel somewhat ambivalent about trying it myself, if only because my subconscious already sends me unsolicited information and ideas, such that I fear being overwhelmed. On the other hand, asking specific questions (something I've done with "dream seeding") CAN provide insightful answers, though in my case I simply didn't like some of the answers proffered. I would advocate others making attempts using your approach, provided they understand that they may not like the answers to their questions. As with so much else in life, that is the inherent risk.

You can't argue with synchronicity either - I just spent a good part of the past hour exchanging posts with a friend on the matter of resolving some 'issues' in my life, and the potential usefulness of shamanic techniques in doing so...

It is difficult to define exactly what this state consists of,
You answer this problem very well in the next paragraph
In this half-asleep state, your thoughts will tend to wander, and you will have to gently bring them back on track. Also, you will probably find that any questions you wished to bring up have suddenly escaped you. It takes deliberate concentration to recall the questions you had in mind,

Your mind wanders and it is very hard to concentrate. Also you may have very vivid mental imagry.

What you are describing is called the hypnogogic state.

There is much scientific evidence that this state makes one very receptive to psychic perceptions.

A discussion of that can be found here:


Briefly, visualization and being in the hypnogogic state both induce theta brain waves, and theta brain waves have been found to be associated with psychic perceptions.

If you watch your mental imagry, what you think may be distracting thoughts may be all sorts of interesting things like pregognitive perceptions, spirit communications, and astral projections/remote viewing. Keep a log of your hypnogogic perceptions and you may be surprised.

Regarding the validity of "pretending" to talk to your spirit guides. My belief is that it is our guides' job to help us with life's problems and spiritual questions. If we have guides they must be able to influence us or why else would we have them? So if you are trying to think through personal or spiritual questions then they are almost certainly going to try to influence your thinking. You may pick up on it right a way or it may come through at an opportune moment (when you may be most receptive). More on this topic can be found here:

I would add to my previous comment... It is a well known phenomena that thinking of a spirit will tend to attract them. It is not just a bit of lore used to explain why mediums suggest you think of a spirit before you come to a reading if you want the medium to bring them through. It is also a principle which applies in the methods of communication described by Dr. Raymond Moody in his book "Reunions" and by Vetrans Administration psychologist Bodkin in his book "Induced After Death Communications"

So, if you want to communicate with your spirit guides, thinking of them (in your case by visualizing a meeting) is supported by scientific evidence.

When I discovered that reincarnation might well be a reality I was so distraught that I spent two years in meditation for long periods of time every day trying to become enlightened so I would not have to return to this earth. To say that goal of becoming enlightened was a failure is an understatement.

Well in those two years a couple of things happened that defy explanation. So I put it out there to see if anyone else has had similar experiences.

Twice I hit something I can only describe as nothingness but it was not nothingness I don’t think. I cannot explain it but I felt for that day very blissful and I am not usually a blissful guy. This blissful feeling lasted all day each time but gone the next day. When I attended my wed ACIM class the woman that let me in at the door commented you look so peaceful tonight. So it must have showed as that is the only time in two years she stated that. The other time I hit/felt this nothingness during my meditation I don’t remember anyone saying anything about how I looked.

Another time I quit breathing right in the middle of my meditation practice. It seemed forever. I had no need to breathe. No need at all. It was weird. I was thinking with my eyes closed "maybe I have died" it went on and on and on and no need to breathe. Can’t explain it. Maybe 5 or ten minutes without breathing. Finally I thought to myself; I need to open my eyes to see if I am dead or alive. I had a new gf at the time and thought to myself I don’t want her to come in and see me lying on the floor dead or sitting in this chair dead. I could not tell if I was still sitting on the chair or had fallen to the floor. I was concerned that it would upset her to see me lying there but I was not upset that I might be dead. I was worried about her being upset but it did not bother me that I might be dead. That is not like me at all. There was no fear that I had died just a curious thought I think I might have just died.

Anyhow that’s my meditation stories. If anyone has had similar experiences would love to hear them. Maybe I need to add I was not on any medication nor do I take drugs.

Sorry for so many comments, but another couple of points may be of interest...

When you are in the hypnogogic state and you see how hard it is to concentrate, watch your thoughts and notice that some visualizations are simply visualizations of what you are thinking about, while others seem to come from nowhere. Try to notice those that come from nowhere. In my experience, psychic perceptions are most likely to be found among that type of mental activity. But don't automatically believe something just because you percieve it that way.

Also, another way of communicating with your guides besides "pretending" to converse at a meeting is to ask them a question and repeat the question like a mantra. If you are in the hypnogogic state you will soon be distracted by stray thoughts etc. When you notice you have been distracted consider what that distracting mental activity was. It may be an answer to your question literal or symbolic.

"I'm not sure it matters very much what the source of the information is. The real question, at least for me, is whether or not it's useful. I have found that it is."

And as you said, that's all that matters...

Interesting subject. I did what you describe Michael a few times and yes images do loom in your mind but are not forefront..thoughts try to match the process of what you are striving for,through imagery. And the brain picks up on your quest for answers and in almost a self hypnotic state comes your answer but is it from your own creative ability which is to say a fabric of your imagination? or some real tangible forming from outside experiences used that would make it absolute and virgin in its own form.


I've had experiences like this too, but I can sometimes have them without having to lay down and concentrate--I can have them if I'm not doing something that contains significant distractions, so that I sometimes have them at the bathroom sink while brushing my teeth, or sitting clipping my fingernails, etc.--I make a point of putting questions to my "whatever it is", take the time to listen, and it will often answer. My "it" is usually pretty no-nonsense and brief with its answers, and is often skeptical that I'll listen, and takes a kind of take it or leave it attitude. As Kevin says, sometimes I don't like the answers. And I too have often decided that I may not be able to tell where these answers are coming from, but at least I've been given something possibly useful.

BUT, I'd say it matters very much what the source of the information is. If it's truly from something other than our subconcious (to use a catch-all term), then that matters; if it's truly from our subconcious, then that matters. I suspect the source is probably ourselves, at least practically all the time (while still keeping the door open a little to the possibility of outside sources). We already know that when we reduce distractions, pressures, etc., that we can enter a hypnagogic state, as someone describes above, in which we can admit to ourselves things we wouldn't otherwise, and put brain resources to work that otherwise would be busy doing other things, including trying to prevent us from admitting things that we find intimidating. The hypnagogic state may be one in which we feel safer, more empowered, and open and inquisitive, and in that mood, we may feel strong enough to think about things in a bolder fashion, and block the answers less. We may feel protected by thinking of our subconcious as outside ourselves--we can listen to it as a guide, a kind of universal teacher, and since we all can use good teachers, we often listen when one speaks, feeling we're being addressed in a benevolent fashion; also, we can feel protected by being able to take or leave what it has to say, so in this sense we have protection from ourselves. Many, or most of us, at many times in our lives, are afraid of, or uncertain of, or too overwhelmed, to think or do the right thing, or "bigger" things, if it's too intimidating, too unwelcome (or mistakenly thought to be) in the culture, family, city, etc. we live in, but we often still know what we should have done or thought, but we block it off into some other part of our mind, but sometimes this part or parts of our mind that we've been supressing still knows, still tracks, and this part or parts (not sure if it's singular or plural) can sometimes be accessed. After a number of years, this "alternate self" can become quite good at knowing what we should be doing or thinking, and so it often comes up with better answers, and faster, than we're currently pursuing--our brains may often be keeping two sets of books, and we can sometimes make an effort to see the other set.

Dear Michael:

I'm pleased to see you've joined the ranks of those actively experimenting with their own subjective experience, instead of writing strictly of others' explorations.

I believe new worlds shall arise from this collective activity, in fact are already arising.


Bill I.

I wonder who 93wyrq9812tagt75re is?

What you are describing so vividly reminds me of my studies with Jon Klimo, author of Channeling.

Very interesting.


>I wonder who 93wyrq9812tagt75re is?

It's an alias.

His real name is 86bcx3512gpa84cd.

Hey hey,

Very intresting to see you doing these experiments Michael. I have been doing this since I was 15, I did it very activly every night for 4 years. My goal was to have an out of body experience, as reaching the border between sleep and waking the hypnagogic state is one of the main requirements...
I used my own technique of looking at the colors you can see with your eyes closed and following them quitely, observing, letting them do their perpetual thing...
I had some very very great experiences, one of the main things I really enjoyed was the phase before actually projecting, which was a state of deep peacefullness and concenration. I never really asked myself question during these experiences, I was more searching for a global experience, had some surprising teachings on the astral plane about the emptyness of everything(the buddhist concept style)

I did ask questions during meditation I did the same thing of getting into another mind state and than asking a question about something I was busy with(problems etc) and letting the answer come up from something deeper within me. Most of the time it was very insightfull.
There are many techniques out there.
For people interested in learning this, I learned a lot from free book about how to get out of body experiences, especially the keys to OBE's chapter is very insightfull in the proces. He was a sceptic computer programmer, sceptic in the way I admire, doubting but not afraid to try it out for himself to make up his own mind...


Read about the nature of the universe -

it's information
it's electro-magnetic
it's toroid (donut shaped)

you are inside the are the Godmind and it loves you.

What you are getting in touch with is the God within. Show gratitude and more will be revealed!



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