Hitting the links

Two sites worth checking out:

George Hansen, author of The Trickster and the Paranormal, has a new blog. His first post deals with the difficulties encountered by parapsychologists who seek acceptance from the mainstream scientific community.

Michael Tymn's excellent blog features a new post on an NDE reported by F.W.H. Myers in his 1903 book Human Personality and Its Survival of Bodily Death. What's so interesting about this NDE, besides its vividness, is that it closely matches more recent reports. Skeptics who say that NDE reports are merely copycat tales inspired by Raymond Moody's 1975 book Life After Life would have a hard time applying that argument to a story that was in print in 1903.

(They would also have  a hard time applying it to Hieronymus Bosch's painting Ascent to the Empyrean, dating from the 16th century.) 

Comments

[Tom]

Hi Michael,

This Richard J Davidson dude, who was going to attend the parapsychology conference that George Hansen writes about but didn't, sounds interesting. You can read about him at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_J._Davidson

Good links also. I think I'll try mindfulness meditation.

[Tom]

Hi Michael,

This Richard J Davidson dude, who was going to attend the parapsychology conference that George Hansen writes about but didn't, sounds interesting. You can read about him at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_J._Davidson

Good links also. I think I'll try mindfulness meditation.

[Marcel Cairo]

The Trickster Returns

George Hansen will make an appearance on my radio show, AfterlifeFM, this coming Tuesday, July 24th.

Same show time as always - 7pm EDT • 4pm PDT

Our topic of conversation will be "The Trickster and the marginalization of the paranormal". I hope you can join us. If you would like an email reminder, just sign up for one here.

[D.S.]

Indeed, skeptics have often claimed that modern NDE reports are simply copycats of what Moody has described. Myers' account and Bosch's painting invalidate this claim.

And actually, few people even know what first acquainted Moody himself with NDEs - I didn't until I listened to his interview on Skeptiko. His first degree was in philosophy, and of course, all philosophy majors read the Ancient Greeks. NDEs and similar experiences are discussed by Plato and Democritus, to name just two prominent ancient philosophers.

Perhaps this is also what first acquainted Myers with NDEs? He was, after all, a gifted classicist, as his cross-correspondence work indicates.

These ancient reports further lend support to the wider claim that these NDEs are not new, and have in fact occurred across cultures and millennia.

[Greg Taylo]

Hi Michael,

There are a number of other historical accounts of NDEs as well - see "Historical Perspectives on Near-Death episodes and Experiences", by John R. Audette. The second-mentioned incident below in particular mirrors NDE aspects (tunnel, meeting friends/family, telepathy rather than talking, not wanting to 'go back'):

1) Admiral Beaufort, near-drowing incident in 1795:

"All hope fled, all exertion had ceased, a calm feeling of the most perfect tranquility superseded the previous tumultuous sensations...though the senses were thus deadened, not so the mind; its activity seemed to be invigorated in a ratio which defies all description...

The course of these thoughts I can even now in a great measure retrace - the event which had just taken place, the awkwardness that had produced it...they then took a wider range - our last cruise, a former voyage and shipwreck, my school, the progress I had made there and the time I had misspent, and even all my boyish pursuits and adventures. Thus traveling backwards, every past incident in my life seemed to glance across my recollection in retrograde succession; not, however, in mere outline as here stated, but the picture filled up every minute and collateral feature; in short, the whole period of my existence seemed to be placed before me in a kind of panoramic review, and each act of it to be accompanied by a consciousness of right or wrong..."

2) Louis Tucker, Catholic Priest, recounts NDE in 1909 in his book 'Clerical Errors' (1943):

"The unconsciousness was short. The sensation was not quite like anything earthly; the nearest familiar thing to it is passing through a short tunnel on a train. There was the same sense of hurrying, of blackness, of rapid transition, of confused noise, and multiform, swift readjustment...

I emerged into a place where people were being met by friends. It was quiet and full of light, and Father was waiting for me. He looked exactly as he had in the last few years of his life and wore the last suit of clothes he had owned...I knew that the clothes Father wore were assumed because they were familiar to me, so that I might feel no strangeeness in seeing him, and that to some lesser extent, his appearance was assumed also; I knew all these things by contagion, because he did.

...Soon I discovered that were were not talking, but thinking. I knew dozens of things that we did not mention because he knew them. He thought a question, I an answer, without speaking; the process was practically instantaneous....what he said was in ideas, no words: if I were to go back at all I must go at once...I did not want to go back; not in the least; the idea of self-preservation, the will to live was quite gone...

I swung into the blackness again, as a man might swing on a train, thoroughly disgusted that I could not stay, and absolutely certain that it was right for me to go back. That certainty has never wavered.

There was a short interval of confused and hurrying blackness and I came to, to find myself lying on my bed with the doctor bending over telling me that I was safe now and would live because circulation was re-established and my lips were no longer blue. I told him I knew that some tiem ago, and went to sleep."

The paper also mentions Hemingway's battlefield OBE/NDE, Jung's OBE, and also cites the 19th century study of Zurich geology professor Robert Heim, which found that many people facing imminent death (whether injured or not) had very similar, subjective experiences, most notably a life review.

More besides, but I can only type so much today...
;)

Kind regards,
Greg

[Darryn]

Wow, Marcel, you got a scoop there. I'll be listening!

Go track down Stephen Braude next :D

[Michael Prescott]

Thanks, Greg, for all that info. I'd heard of "Clerical Errors" but have never seen a copy. The book is very rare. I'll have to look for Audette's paper.

[Leo]

I was pretty upset with the lastest skeptico podcast with Raymond Moody? Why because he did not say that his nde studies showed evidence of survival instead he said at the end of the podcast he don't understand why scientists want evidence for life after death.

[Michael Prescott]

In his book The Last Laugh, Moody says that NDEs may not be evidence for survival. His position doesn't make much sense to me, but there it is.

[Ryan]

Moody does believe in survival though, I think. If I remember correctly his position is something along the lines that NDEs, whilst not providing proof of survival in a strictly scientific or logical manner have - collectively and due to his close contact with many NDE subjects - convinced him of survival.

My guess is that Moody feels that there is no unproblematic inference from the NDE experience to the conclusion that survival is a fact. There will always be debates about the particulars. But the testimony is convincing, just as it would be if lots of people told you about a strange country or foreign culture you had never encountered, or a weird disease that you had never had. The stories are not proof, by scientific standards they are not even evidence, and there is no strict logical argument for believing the testimony. But the stories are convincing and give us 'reason' to believe in survival.

I might be wrong but I think that is how Moody sees things

[drew hempel]

What's the deal with their life after death?
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Poverty/death/

[Art]

What's the deal with their life after death?http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Poverty/death/ - drew hempel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

People die so that the souls of those that are left behind can experience separation. Experiencing separation imprints on the soul what it means and how it feels to be a separate, unique, individual. Because of the overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness in the Spiritual Universe the only way to become a separate, unique, individual is by first spending time here in the Physical Universe. We experience separation from the moment we are born, when the umbilical cord is cut, till the day we die, when our death becomes a lesson in separation to the souls of our loved ones who are left behind. The more emotional the experience the more powerful and long lasting the memories it creates. Nothing causes the soul to experience separation like losing someone they love. We experience separation in a myriad of ways. Not just losing people (death, divorce, friends moving away, leaving home, etc.) but also in such simple tasks as picking a grape off a vine or a tomato, or cutting up piece of meat and separating the pieces. Even going to the bathroom is a lesson in experiencing separation. The soul has to imprint enough separation experiences on it to overcome the overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness that exists in the Spiritual Universe due to the holographic nature of the other side. from Mark Horton's NDE: " I suddenly just relaxed completely and allowed "myself" to dissolve (?) open up (?) merge (?) into the "oneness" that surrounded me." http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/markh.html

[myspace]

myspace

[myspace]

myspace

[yahoo]

yahoo

[yahoo]

yahoo

[yahoo]

yahoo

[automatedtradingman]

If you can see this message, please email the this website url so I can update my "do not post" file [email protected].

http://www.curriculum.k12.sd.us/ds063/_disc1/0000018c.htm - Stock Trading Software
http://www.curriculum.k12.sd.us/ds063/_disc1/0000018c.htm>Automated Trading System

[blkhtsoc]

If you can see this message, please email the website you saw it on, [email protected].

http://www.empiregoldcoins.com/blk/Adjustable_Rate_Mortgage_Calculation - Adjustable Rate Mortgage Calculation Adjustable Rate Mortgage Calculation
http://www.empiregoldcoins.com/blk/Adjustable_Rate_Mortgage_Loans - Adjustable Rate Mortgage Loans Adjustable Rate Mortgage Loans
http://www.empiregoldcoins.com/blk/Adverse_Remortgage - Adverse Remortgage Adverse Remortgage
http://www.empiregoldcoins.com/blk/Adwords_Analyzer - Adwords Analyzer Adwords Analyzer

[analingus]

analingus