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You crafty devil, sliding the word "common" into your description of those who were conscious of afterlife! The life review was celebrated by the pre-BC Egyptians though it was harbored by the privileged few.

Wait! The architects of the Zodiac, whomever they might be, positioned Libra and her scales of judgment evaluating the Sun/Son’s existence before allowing it to pass through the Underworld. Of this was not a 'common' shepherd as acquainted as he was of the clear night’s sky?

“This subjective involvement in the experiences of the people whom one has affected is a key feature of the life review.”

The ripple of our wrongdoing as it affects those we do not know (Wetzel – “Akashic Records: Case Studies of Past Lives “).

Johannes Greber's discarnates most likely have it precise. "The only way to learn the truth is communication with the good spirit world.”

How Od(ic). :)

Great post, further illuminating the nature of "information."

I don't think I understand The Od's comment, but the life review is a pretty common feature of NDEs. It differs from the idea of divine judgment, because in the life review the person judges himself by experiencing the pain he has caused others.

"the life review is a pretty common feature of NDEs. It differs from the idea of divine judgment, because in the life review the person judges himself by experiencing the pain he has caused others."

Not only in the 'near death experiences' but also in the actual death experiences.

OT, but Steve Volk has a new e-book out titled OBSESSED: The Compulsions and Creations of Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz.

According to Wikipedia, "Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D. is an American psychiatrist and researcher in the field of neuroplasticity and its application to obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)."
It goes on to point out (in so many words) that he rattled his peers cages a lot.

I just downloaded the book and I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but from what I can tell, Volk's underlying theme is about the validity of free will.
For a buck ninety-nine, my neurons couldn't resist ordering me to buy it. :D
http://www.amazon.com/OBSESSED-Compulsions-Creations-Schwartz-ebook/dp/B00EO4R3SK/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377953905&sr=1-3&keywords=steve+volk

Oops, I forgot to point out that it's a short e-book. Amazon estimates 74 pages.

" It differs from the idea of divine judgment, because in the life review the person judges himself by experiencing the pain he has caused others."

This seems to me to be only a semantic difference re; life review v divine judgment. I mean if you don't get to choose whether or not to live through all the suffering you caused other - if it's an unavoidable automatic process - then it's pretty much the same as divine judgment in effect.

A truly cruel person would indeed experience a hell in this process.

Also, it sounds a lot like the law of karma and reaping what one sows.

Finally, even in the bible there are references to a book being opened on the day of judgment and all men being faced with their deeds which are written in that book. It's an old concept.

Just some random thoughts from me. Nice post!

OT: Lawrence Krauss is now the latest skeptic to be accused of 'inappropriate behaviour'.

While these allegations have not been proven, the fact that they are seeping from the heart of the skeptical community itself does indicate that there is something very wrong in the community.

http://subversivethinking.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

To be honest, I'd never heard of Krauss until now. But I'm a little uncomfortable about all these accusations coming out at the same time. It seems as if people have decided to air every piece of gossip, every rumor. Anyone can say anything online, and once it's out there, it's there forever. Reputations can be ruined unfairly.

Douglas Preston writes about this in his short Kindle ebook "Trial by Fury." He tells how his reputation was trashed online after he publicly defended Amanda Knox, the college student accused of murder in Italy. He realized he was essentially helpless to rebut the allegations, because there would always be more and more.

The Internet is still the Wild Wild Web. There are very few protections for people who are maligned and defamed. In some ways, I find this fact more troubling than any of the allegations against skeptical poohbahs.

"There are very few protections for people who are maligned and defamed."

"Anyone can say anything online, and once it's out there, it's there forever. Reputations can be ruined unfairly"

Agree 100%, Michael.

And I would add that is extremely difficult find a lawyer willing to take on a defamation suit (I know this from personal experience. It wasn't that the lawyers didn't agree that defamation had occurred, wrongly and in an actionable way, but that collecting for damages is so difficult a. because the liable parties may not have any assets or insurance worth going after and b. because proving quantifiable damages in this type of case can be difficult c. certain protections of journalistic activities, like "that is what my reliable vetted source told me and I don't have to reveal my source").

It is better if alleged dirty laundry be kept out these debates. I don't see where alleged sexual behaviors or medical malpractice suits, etc have anything to do with anything we discuss.

Generally, I believe it would be best if people and the media refrained from posting allegations and even arrests whenever possible. As Michael says, these things stay out on the net for ever - even after the accused is exonerated.

IMO, If an arrest or allegation is published and the accused is found not guilty/not culpable/not responsible or the allegation is otherwise determined to be baseless, then the publisher of the arrest/allegation should have to, by law, create an addendum to the original post stating this outcome.

@zerdini

There it is, Geo. It is fashionable to emphasize the NDE but not so to focus on the innumerable evidences of incarnate-discarnate communications? A full form evidential materialization is somehow less significant than a temporary flight on a butterfly's wing?

What does that say of us in this modern, 'advanced' world?

Not MUch I reckon.

@Michael P.

Apologies for not being more succinct.

You claimed that the life review was "not commonly known before 1975 (Moody)" and I suggested that the use of the word "commonly" may have bought you distance from error. :)

I'll leave this to say that the life review as a part of the process of transition is as old as them thar Jerusalem hills. Or the Sacred Mountains of China. Or Olympus itself!

What is common in terms of the afterlife is age and culturally dependent. So we agree.


The Od,

I think Michael's point is different than what you are arguing against. Namely, that the Life Review was not well-known among the public before 1975, so when we see the Life Review mentioned in a publication before that date, we may assume that the writer did not come to believe in the Life Review from reading books about NDEs. Thus, seeing the Life Review mentioned in books before 1975 is evidence that the Life Review is a real phenomenon.

While we're on the topic, here's a question for the group.

Clearly, the notion of the Life Review was not *totally* unknown to average people.

The notion of "life passing before one's eyes" in the case of apparent imminent death (as in the case of a fall, etc.).

As a kid, I learned of this phrase/concept in the 1970s from 1950s/60s cartoons and other TV shows that predated Moody's book.

So I'm curious to what degree this phenomenon was understood and actually believed in pre-Moody.

Thoughts?

It must depend on some degree what a person in life believes. If they believe in judgment by God that is what they will experience.

In any case, it is the "higher self" doing everything anyway. Whether this Self is perceived as seperate from the ego personality or a part of it, essentially it is a judgment anyway.

I actually find the notion of hell quite satisfactory, although I don't believe in hell fire or a lake of fire etc. We know that people who lead a bad life can end up in hellish regions, so it is wise to be cautious about our actions on earth. Religious teachings of hell do seem to help people lead a virtuous life, even if those teachings contain a lot of other errors and the people that spout them seem obnoxious and dogmatic.

These days I can read the Quran and actually not find it repulsive as I did before.

"A full form evidential materialization is somehow less significant than a temporary flight on a butterfly's wing?" The Od
-----------------------

In this day and time NDEs are more common than full form materializations. Also it is a little easier to validate a NDE than it is a materialization. Everyone, even skeptics, agree that NDEs happen. The problem with materializations is that oftentimes only one person sees them, sometimes even with other people being present when they happen. A lot of times it happens in the middle of the night and if there are two people in the bed one will wake up and see Uncle Dave at the foot of the bed glowing brightly while the other snoozes away never noticing anything.

We are all hoping the AWARE study gives us something concrete to lay our hands on that we can shove in the skeptics faces and say "I told you so!" {grin!}

So far my allusions to the holographic nature of NDEs seems to have had little affect on most people's beliefs. It's almost like they have blinders on and can't see the connection? I wonder why it doesn't have the same affect on them as it does me? It seems so obvious and evidential to me?

The idea that your whole life flashes before your eyes was definitely well known to the public long before Moody's book. However, I don't believe that this idea ever included the important detail of experiencing all the pain you had caused others, and actually reliving those episodes from their point of view. This is the aspect of the "Myers" communication that I find interesting, because it matches up so well with the NDE life review.

Michael,

||I don't believe that this idea ever included the important detail of experiencing all the pain you had caused others, and actually reliving those episodes from their point of view.||

Interesting. So do people who are in a fall, etc., have a different type of mini Life Review than, say, those who go into cardiac arrest? Or is it that they have essentially have the same type of life review, but the concept was dumbed down in the popular imagination?

||This is the aspect of the "Myers" communication that I find interesting, because it matches up so well with the NDE life review.||

I agree. Quite compelling.

"So I'm curious to what degree this phenomenon was understood and actually believed in pre-Moody.

Thoughts?"

I think the idea has been common knowledge amongst the general populace for ever. Certainly all of the esoteric traditions contain the concept (to include spiritualism).

I can remember from my own childhood people using the phrase, "my life passed before my eyes" rather frequently; sometimes to describe an actual near death experience and sometimes as an exaggerated turn of phrase to describe a psychological shock. I would hear this and it captured my imagination. This would have been in the late '60s and early '70s. Some of these people were rather elderly at the time and, I imagine, not particularly well read - certainly not the types to have been delving into the occult, as far as I can remember them any how.

Regarding the former, my great uncle Bill was an electrical contractor and had been accidentally electrocuted. He was a very ordinary man and he used to drink and after a few Canadian whiskeys he would, invariably, resort to telling the story of his electrocution. He always paused with an aura of reverence at the part where his whole life, in detail, "passed before his eyes".

Another elderly relative from that time period had had a premonition, in a vivid dream, about a train crashing. She had a ticket to on a trip on a train. The dream caused her to tear up the ticket and not take the trip. The train she had had a ticket to ride on derailed and many people were killed and badly hurt, according to the story. I have no facts as to when or where such a derailment took place and all of these people are long gone. My mother used to back up the story. My impression, for some reason, has always been that it was in the '50s and would have been in the NE of the US or possibly in the SE of Canada.

This relative who dodged death on the train had had some kind of medical crisis previously - family gossip makes me think it was an incompetent backroom abortion in the '40s - in which she nearly died. She never had children. I can remember her making statements about needing to live properly because when you die you have to be faced with all of the things you have done - good and bad. I can vaguely recall her saying that she had gone through that experience during the medical crisis (whatever it was). This is something she would emphasize frequently, though I don't remember her being a particularly religious person.

Any how, I think the life review is a normal occurrence and it has been generally accepted and discussed amongst common folk for all of time.

I believe the life review evolved into the idea of the judgement. I have this idea that all religion probably originated from things like NDE's, death bed visions, mystical and transcendental experiences, and hallucinogenic experiences from things like mushrooms, ergot, etc.

Experiences "grow", become embellished, out of sequence, and interpreted in light of the culture from which they evolved. So the "life review" becomes "the judgement" and other ideas get added to it till eventually what we are left with is barely recognizable from the original.

But buried beneath all that are the kernels or gems that we read about in more recent experiences that haven't had been reinterpreted by storytellers and monks and priests into what we read about in so called holy books.

Edifying, no one, thank you!

@Art:

"The problem with materializations is that oftentimes only one person sees them, sometimes even with other people being present when they happen."

This statement is completely untrue and could only have been made by someone who has never seen a full form materialization.

Full form materializations ARE SEEN by all present and not in darkness but in some form of lighting.

"So far my allusions to the holographic nature of NDEs seems to have had little affect on most people's beliefs. It's almost like they have blinders on and can't see the connection? I wonder why it doesn't have the same affect on them as it does me? It seems so obvious and evidential to me?"

Maybe it's because it is simply your belief and not factual.
It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it and/or quote the NDE experiences of others it will not make it true.

"This statement is completely untrue and could only have been made by someone who has never seen a full form materialization." zerdini
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I was talking about ADC's where people are at home and see their dead relatives. Not physical mediumship. I have read several books about ADCs and have a friend at Church that told me she saw her dead grandfather after he passed away.

I have no experience with physical mediumship and know nothing about it so I don't comment on it. Until I attend a physical medium for myself and actually see one of these materializations I shall remain undecided.

Thanks, Art, for your clarification that you know nothing about full form materializations nor that you have any experience of physical mediumship.

It is extremely unlikely that you will ever see a materialization as it is, and always has been, a rare phenomenon.

Art: ”So far my allusions to the holographic nature of NDEs seems to have had little affect on most people's beliefs. It's almost like they have blinders on and can't see the connection? I wonder why it doesn't have the same affect on them as it does me? It seems so obvious and evidential to me?”.

There are indeed some well known physicists believing that the 3D universe can be considered a hologram, somehow created from a very very distant surface containing the basic information. It all stems from the observations of black holes, that seem to contain their 'information' (entropy) on their 'surfaces' (event horizons). The interpretation of this is not a straightforward task, though. To draw the conclusion that everything might be projections from a huge far distant surface, well that's a pretty big step. A better interpretation is to take it the other way around: that all the information contained inside a sphere (or any reasonable 3D geometry) also somehow can be (mathematically/physically) represented on its surface. These information surfaces, that the physicist can place anywhere in space, do not produce the content inside them. It's the surfaces being the products (curved 2D maps if you like) of their content. Like black holes, with the big exceptions that a black hole might be essentially empty inside (strange things like singularities are proposed in their centers) and the information on their event horizons are a useless sludge really. Almost nothing can be recovered from them to recreate what once went into them. A good but partly a bit hard-digested post against the hologram view can be found at: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=2c9c6abe20b4cc926406f4a50fb2dd83&t=690778#13 .

Personally, I don't feel particularly holographic and I guess most of us don't. So it's not surprising that the holographic idea hasn't received more attention than it has. But of course, for anybody wishing to reduce space to information technology (I don't say you, but many do), the hologram idea might fit in the context.

David R: "We know that people who lead a bad life can end up in hellish regions"

I doubt NDE researchers will agree. They claim (as I know) that it's not possible to tell who'll have a distressing experience and who'll not.

It's the connection between NDE's and the holographic universe I find so evidential. Dr. Kenneth Ring saw it. He required his students to read Michael Talbot's book The Holographic Universe when he taught a class in NDE's at the University of Connecticut.

People who have NDE's say stuff about their experience like they're talking what one would expect if one were living in or on the original holographic film that our universe is a projection from. Stuff like overwhelming oneness and connectedness, literally feeling like they are everywhere in the Universe at once, 360 degree vision, more real than normal or "realer than real (there is an inherent blurriness or fuzziness in a holographic projection which is where we are supposedly living now), etc. etc. etc.

odd s this might sound being a retired Zen priest.I do not think there is evidence for Karma in the way it is usually understood. The best evidence we have for judging that is not nDE's but the reincarnation cases of Ian Stevenson and JIm Tucker. AS for life review that is a complex question and I think it is substantially formed by culture while the substance (a totality of memory and insights)is concistent the form is not.

If spacetime is treated like a hologram I think it should be thought of as a representation of an even more multidimensional (at least 5D) room. More dimensions give us many more options than a surface. Important not least considering PK and spirits. And frankly, being reduced to an emulsion on a holographic plate is not an appealing thought.

Art, I have been reading a little bit of Emmanuel Swedenborg's "Heaven and Hell," and he writes of what he calls "correspondence," meaning that all things arise from the spiritual world or plane, and, whatever THERE is here. It is a very tough read, being translated from Latin, but his ideas are very interesting (there's also free PDFs for "Heaven and Hell" on the Web). One interesting thing he notes is that negative people and spirits really like to associate together, in this life and the next - where there's one, there's more.

Thanks Kathleen. I'm a big Emmanuel Swedenborg fan. My middle name is Manuel which is the diminutive of Immanuel which means "God with us." {grin!} A lot of what Swedenborg talks about sounds very holographic, talking about the way angels talk with "balls of thought" containing immense meaning. Here is a good article about Swedenborg and the holographic paradigm.

Swedenborg and the Holographic Paradigm

http://www.swedenborgstudy.com/articles/science-math/mt88.htm

I can actually see a connection between the New Testament and the holographic paradigm also. The verse "On Earth as it is in Heaven" has a very holographic flavor to it. "Whatsoever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven" also reflects the holographic nature of heaven. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is very similar to the Life Review which is a holographic experience par excellence. Not judging others because that is the way you will be judged also reflects that oneness and connectedness of heaven that so many Near Death Experiencers talk about. The parable in the New Testament about the vineyard owner that pays all his workers the same thing regardless of when they start work reflects that in heaven we will all be equal in heaven. Just like the verse "neither Jew nor Greek, neither male nor female" in the Kingdom of Heaven. There are so many I can't list them all. It was amazing to me when it suddenly dawned on me the connection between the New Testament and the holographic universe theory.

Art,

I'm also fascinated by the parallels between the cutting edge of physics (holographic universe, quantum entanglement) and the inner experiences of mystics throughout the ages.

My own view is that Yeshua Ben-Yosef (a.k.a "Jesus") had a profound mystical experience, during which he apprehended the true nature of the universe. The profound interconnection of all things became clear to him, hence the injunction to "love your enemies" and "love your neighbour as yourself" - because in one sense, your neighbour IS yourself.

His attempts to describe the ineffable resulted in the parables: "the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto...." All descriptions fail; analogies are the only possible way of communicating his experience.

May I recommend to you the following:

1) The essay "Loving Our Enemies - the Core of Jesus' Vision in the Sayings Gospel Q" by Robert Perry (available online). This essay had a profound effect on me and shows that humanity has not yet understood Yeshua's teaching. (In the words of G. K. Chesterton: "Christianity hasn't failed, it just hasn't been tried yet.")

2) The books of Lee and Steven Hager: "Quantum Prodigal Son"; "The Gospel of Thomas - Where Science Meets Spirituality", and "Fearless Spirituality - What Sages Knew and Science Discovered" These books deal specifically with the link between mysticism and physics, and are well worth a read.

Wow thanks Rupert. That is what I believe exactly. I'm amazed there is someone else who thinks or believes similar to me? I have a feeling most religion arose or evolved from mystical and transcendental experiences. Stories got told out of sequence, embellished, and out of context and monks, scribes, and priests added their own commentary to the story till what we are left with are kernels of truth buried somewhere in the original story. The story of Jesus sounds very similar to an NDE to me and his stories about what the Kingdom of Heaven is like sound "NDE like". I believe that Jesus was probably a near death experiencer and that Christianity at its very heart is a near death experience religion and that the New Testament is basically a near death experience story. When that Roman soldier stuck his spear in Jesus side he pierced the pericardium and released the pressure that had built up and because they were in a hurry to cut Jesus down, when they flopped him on the ground that was enough to restart his heart, and he was probably in a deep coma, barely breathing, and they cleaned him up and bound his wounds and thinking him dead stuck him in that tomb where after three days lying in that cool dark tomb he woke up and walked out of there and like many other near death experiencers he told his stories about what he had seen to anyone who would listen. "And the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto......"

My own feeling is that Yeshua didn't have a NDE but rather an "awakening experience" which happened at some point in his adolescence or early adulthood, before he started his ministry.

For classic examples of awakening experiences, check out those of Dr Richard Bucke and Rev Leslie Weatherhead - the former had his "experience" inside a hansom cab, the latter inside a railway compartment! (You will find these accounts online.)

For contemporary examples, read "Out of the Darkness" by Steve Taylor. There is a marvellous example of a lady becoming "awakened" as she drove into a supermarket car park!

What seems to happen here is that the normal boundaries of the mind fall away, and the person has a sudden, overwhelming and ineffable experience of the true nature of reality. And this reality is astonishingly like that being described by modern physics: all things are connected; the universe is holographic; the universe is benevolent and purposeful; and behind all things is a Great Mind of which we are all fragments.

Thanks for recommending Perry's essay, RM. I liked it a lot.

I suspect, however, that Jesus' apocalyptic warnings were original with him, but were misinterpreted by later followers. In line with N.T. Wright's theory, I'd say that Jesus saw clearly that active, violent resistance by the Jews against the Romans would result in the destruction of Jerusalem. Part of his message was that such resistance was self-defeating, and that Israel had to learn a new way of relating to the Romans (their enemies). These warnings were couched in the exaggerated language of Hebrew prophesy - the sun will go dark, the stars will fall. Later, the metaphorical language was taken literally, and Jesus was thought to have predicted the end of the world and the damnation of sinners, when he was actually predicting the end of Jerusalem and the destruction of Israel (a prediction that came true in AD 70).

I agree that Jesus probably had a "cosmic consciousness" experience. Such experiences, as you point out, can happen in the most mundane circumstances and don't have to involve an NDE. Actually, most NDErs do not seem to experience cosmic consciousness, though a minority do. Most of them report only a mildly heightened version of their usual consciousness (though this itself is very significant, given that their brain activity may be compromised or almost nil).

"What seems to happen here is that the normal boundaries of the mind fall away, and the person has a sudden, overwhelming and ineffable experience of the true nature of reality. And this reality is astonishingly like that being described by modern physics: all things are connected; the universe is holographic; the universe is benevolent and purposeful; and behind all things is a Great Mind of which we are all fragments." - Rupert
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That is what happened to me. Exactly. I felt this powerful euphoria, and suddenly everything became completely clear to me. It was like all this information was downloaded into my brain. It happened in the amount of time it took me to walk from our kitchen into our dining room. There was a large stone fireplace between the kitchen and dining room and in the time it took me to walk past that stone fireplace all of a sudden I knew why we were here, why we suffer, why it was important for us to live in this universe and be in a physical body and it all has to do with the holographic nature of our universe.

Art:

"all of a sudden I knew why we were here, why we suffer, why it was important for us to live in this universe and be in a physical body and it all has to do with the holographic nature of our universe."

Art, that's fascinating - would you care to elaborate?

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