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Filmmaker Guillermo del Toro shares two experiences he had with ghosts in this interview:
January 31, 2013 | Permalink
Assuming that del Toro isn't pulling our leg, what is up with the "sighing...filled with sorrow" that his uncle was apparently making? Why the creepy female death wails and the grief-filled sounds of male regret?
This is old school ghost story stuff. I remember as a kid reading all of Alvin Schwartz's "Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark" and this is *that* sort of ghost story - not the kind you generally see in the psychical/parapsychology literature. Granted, there's that one case of the woman in black that (I think) was discussed in Chris Carter's latest book who just appeared and walked around holding a hankie to her face... but that seems like such a product of it's times too.
Sometimes this paranormal stuff boggles my mind: NDEs, ecstatic visions, OBEs, ADCs, IADCs, hauntings, ayuhausca trips, LSD and DMT experiences, mediumship reports, religious doctrines...
Why the inconsistencies!? Why all the varied reports? Why does a druggie who has sex with hookers experience bliss at death and a seemingly good person experiences unimaginable terror?
I'm gonna get back to reading Hansen some more. His thesis of the Trickster is becoming more and more compelling to me every day.
January 31, 2013 at 10:30 PM
Maybe you have never really understand my existence.
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February 01, 2013 at 12:59 AM
"what is up with the "sighing...filled with sorrow" that his uncle was apparently making? Why the creepy female death wails and the grief-filled sounds of male regret? This is old school ghost story stuff."
I did't know that sighing with sorrow, wailing (crying) and sounds of grief filled with regret were old school or out of fashion? It gels with me that the human experience is both good, bad, and in between, and seems to be portrayed that way in paranormal TV, haunted house programs, and literature etc. I am not sure what books you have been reading.
"and this is *that* sort of ghost story - not the kind you generally see in the psychical/parapsychology literature."
Perhaps this is simply because groans and wails are not the best evidence of life after death (as you also seem to think), rather than spoken evidence that can then be verified.
Del Toro's claims seem reasonable to me, but it is up to everyone whether you believe an article is written in good faith, as there is no way of proving alot of this. Just as you do with any article that is written, or for that matter, what people tell you every day.
It reminds me of something my Uncle told me one day. At one time he had a job selling vaccum cleaners that were worth about a $1000 NZ. It was the end of a poor selling week, and he pulled up outside a derelict house. When inside, he thought, "What a waste of time ", as he went though his usual speel. There was an old sofa in the lounge, a worn carpet and little else. But he thought, at least I can sit down for a bit. After the speel, the husband turns to the wife.
"So do you want it", he says. " "Yep ", she says.
He said, "I just about fell over". Now if he had walked past, like most of us would have done, he would have missed out on the sale. So sometimes our biases, can be very wrong.
February 01, 2013 at 03:08 AM
I don't honestly doubt del Toro's claim here - I've had weird experiences myself that I can't make sense of, so, to me, it's entirely possible that del Toro had these experiences. Letting my left brain do some thinking, however, it would make sense that a guy who makes horror films might embellish a little bit to create a certain mystique about himself and stir up interest in his work. He obviously wants to have experiences or he wouldn't be so motivated to stay in haunted rooms - do we trust a person who is motivated to have certain exceptional experiences in their accounts as much as a person who wasn't out looking for them?
As for the ghost hunting stuff on TV, I think all of that is sensationalized. Much of it is completely fabricated, from what I understand. I'm trying to keep my focus on the very best evidence we have for an afterlife here, so I keep my focus on what has been compiled by people who are being as critical and thoughtful as possible. That information leads to a vision of an afterlife that, while it is complicated and difficult to articulate simply, makes sense on the whole.
Meanwhile, shrieking and wailing and the gnashing of teeth don't help me parse together anything that makes sense except, what? - We're hearing the voices of the damned reaching out from a medieval Catholic hell somewhere? That our spirits, after we die, become amnesic, forget all but the most traumatizing bits of our lives, and then replay those experiences over and over the way a drunk repeats himself again and again because his short term memory is blown out?
I'm not trying to have an argument with you here, I'm just trying to point out my motivations for looking into this stuff. What does del Toro's experiences add to our understanding of survival of consciousness and of human existence? If he's being completely honest - and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt - it suggests some disturbing possibilities.
Meanwhile, look at NDEs. The great bulk of them make me feel like I've just entered the Land of OZ. You review your life, you see how you bungled it and how you did well, you are awash in love and light and all good things... it's coherent, for the most part.
Anyway, I don't know. I'm just spouting off my biases here - but I don't think everything needs to have equal air time after awhile - we do have to live our lives after all. Anyway, if you or anyone else is interested, since you seem into hauntings (and I think the evidence says that hauntings DO happen) there's an interesting episode of Jim Harold's Paranormal Podcast called "True Haunting" - it's a recent one with a guy named Becker, here's a link: http://jimharold.com/the-paranormal-podcast/true-haunting-paranormal-podcast-271/
February 01, 2013 at 08:30 AM
Holographic projections from the collective unconscious. That is what Michael Talbot says in The Holographic Universe.
Marian visions, UFO's, gnomes, fairies, trolls, are all holographic projections from the collective unconscious. That is why UFO's seem to be able to defy the laws of physics. They are appearing and disappearing because they are simply projections.
And as far as interactive spirits? On the Starship Enterprise Holodeck the ship's crew could interact with the people who were holographic projections from the ship's computer. The ship's computer and the holodeck were linked. Once you step onto the holodeck you become a part of whatever scenario is being acted out.
February 01, 2013 at 10:35 AM
Cool "Philemon". The only thing I would add , like "Art" says, "its more likely some of it is true and some of it not".
I too have had experiences, one where a guy who had committed suicide (I gather by his emotions I could feel) just pooped into my body. And after that when watching some of these paranormal programs in which the psychic appears a little over the top. I now think some of them under act. Because I certainly had enough trouble with the experience, it absolutely terrified me.
I remember also watching the New Zealand version of Sensing Murder, when Deb Webber gave the complete name of a suspect that the police had not released. The detective was blown away.
So I think saying, "well it sounds like crap, therefore it likely is", and lumping things together, is an example of biased thinking really. And Del Toro was pretty young for his first experience, so the fact that he is a film producer doesn't explain that.
But get your point, Cheers Lynn.
February 01, 2013 at 07:34 PM
Ahh, that was supposed to read as "popped into my body". Sounds funnier though, as is. Lyn.
February 01, 2013 at 09:46 PM
One of the problems I have with materialist skeptics is that if they find one little piece that is untrue they assume the whole thing is baloney. They do the same thing with the Bible which I am fairly certain that there are hidden gems of truth buried in there and you have to dig them out. Story tellers have a tendency to embellish and enhance their stories to make them more interesting.
Even the stories in the Old Testament. It was written by Jews for Jews and so it's written from their perspective. Of course it's going to be "pro Jewish" and make their God the most powerful and almighty God. But buried in those stories are historical fact. And I'm not saying the whole thing is true - but some of it is.
The New Testament is interesting because I see injections from other religions that were common during the first Century around the Mediterranean. Christianity seems to be a matrix or Mandala of several different religions all mixed together with the deepest part being some little Jewish Rabbi's powerful and profound near death experience. It was like Yeshua's NDE was the catalyst that all the other stories were added onto.
Yeshua's experience grew rather quickly so by the time the gospel's were written it had taken on a life of it's own. Like that highly articulate and intelligent little Jewish man was predestined to be the beginnings of a new religion that change the world.
February 02, 2013 at 01:52 PM
"One of the problems I have with materialist skeptics is that if they find one little piece that is untrue they assume the whole thing is baloney."
Perhaps we should get James Randi to stay in haunted hotel rooms.
The Gipper |
February 02, 2013 at 02:52 PM
A little OT, but...this might be the first 'leak' from the AWARE study.
February 02, 2013 at 07:51 PM
Interesting story,RabbitDawg. It mentions something that I've always felt was strong evidence that NDE's are real - that is, that because they are narrative in nature. If NDEs were hallucinations or dreams, people would be reporting random dream-like elements -pink elephants, finding themselves back in junior high school, etc. No, instead there's nearly always a step-by-step storyline. And if NDEs were simply dreams or hallucinations, people would be "meeting" celebrities, the postman, etc. Instead, they all seem to be meeting dead relatives. I find this to be some of the strongest evidence for NDEs.
February 04, 2013 at 01:45 PM
Wow, RabbitDawg, that is some off topic. I wonder why he chose to 'leak' it that way.
February 04, 2013 at 02:41 PM
I wonder why he chose to 'leak' it that way. - j9
The fact that the story mentions a recent study by Southampton General Hospital, which is part of the AWARE team tells me that it is an AWARE Study leak. That, and the quote's by Dr. Sam Parnia.
Come to think of it, this probably has more to do with early promotion of Parnia's book, Erasing Death, which in turn, will be mined for early insights into the AWARE Study.
February 04, 2013 at 04:16 PM
"The fact that the story mentions a recent study by Southampton General Hospital, which is part of the AWARE team tells me that it is an AWARE Study leak. That, and the quote's by Dr. Sam Parnia."
Someone else on this forum pointed out that the study referred to is actually an old one. I checked it out and it's true. It's from 2001.
Bruce Siegel |
February 04, 2013 at 05:19 PM
... It's from 2001.
Thanks Bruce, I'm such a sucker. I saw it on a current date facebook post like a current news story, fromby David Sunfellow's NHNE site. Sheesh. :$
But I saw it on the internet! It's gettin' bad when you can't trust what you see on the internet... :D
February 04, 2013 at 08:26 PM
I'm so bummed.
February 04, 2013 at 09:31 PM
"It's gettin' bad when you can't trust what you see on the internet... "
I've noticed that sites often don't put dates on their articles. They understand that if you knew how old the page was, you wouldn't read it!
But to be honest, since I'm slow at creating new content myself, I've taken to doing the same on my own piano site. So I guess I shouldn't complain.
Bruce Siegel |
February 04, 2013 at 10:00 PM
This is a good article that has a positive and uplifting message.
“Does The Soul Exist? Evidence Says Yes” – Psychology Today.
February 05, 2013 at 12:34 AM
Stop with the downers people!
Just because it is from 2001, doesn’t mean that it isn’t a very interesting and evidential article in its own right, so if you haven’t read it then please do so!
February 05, 2013 at 05:27 AM
Thanks for the link Art. I felt obliged to add a comment in the section below the article, in response to the usual skeptical knee jerk reactions, although, they had a point that the reseachers' work was described as a 'theory' in the article, when in fact it is really just a hypothesis, but a very interesting hypothesis nonetheless.
February 05, 2013 at 07:04 AM
I wanted to rep;y to your comments about the afterlife but I posted under the wrong blog entry awhile back.
I struggle with obsessive traits for exactness in many areas (not perfection) and a nagging sense that this was posted in the wrong area kept working on me.
Anyways - if anyone reads this and has weird sense of deju vu - yes I posted this under another blog entry and yes, I am posting it again but this time under the correct blog entry, to satisfy my own sense of "the world's in order."
Here are my original comments directed at the perceptions of afterlife:
I, too, have been aggressively seeking to build a better understanding of the afterlife for my own very traumatic reasons. The paranormal world is so jumbled with theories and speculation that I gave up trying to figure out how they all fit together. Sometimes its enough for me to know that there are unexplained mysteries.
Small pockets of understanding, at least within my own mind, have emerged, especially in the field of ghost hunting. I joined a paranormal research team last year and have been informally studying everything from the nuts and bolts of doing an investigation to the more speculative morphic resonance theories espoused by Rupert Sheldrake (which really opens up a field of tumbleweeds for me to run after).
Although vastly more complex than I have time to articulate, there are theories in ghost cosmology that traumatic life events leave an imprint on the geomagnetic grid at the location where they occurred. This "imprint" can continue to replay over and over as the trauma works itself out vibrationally through the centuries. I imagine it to be a cross between the wound up power rod of a jack in the box hooked to an audio or video recording.
Who knows what kindles the sensory replay for any particular person. The convergence of variables would be difficult to puzzle together with the limited knowledge we have on this subject at present. For me,a key factor in differentiating these kinds of situations is that there is generally no detectable interaction with anyone, spirit or otherwise, in these kinds of manifestations.
I would guess that the screams and wails in del Toro's interview might fit into this category or something similar, perhaps a residual or trapped energy hypothesis. Maybe it is not part of the afterlife at all but just a bit of a recording.
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February 20, 2013 at 03:51 AM
I want to represent; Y, your comment about the afterlife but I put in the wrong blog entries will be back later.
I struggle in the force characteristics in many areas of correctness (not perfect) and a rattle feeling, this is put in the wrong area has been working in my body.
Anyway, if someone read this, strange feeling deju vu - yes I posted this in another blog entry, yes, I will again but this time in the right blog entry, to meet my own sense of "world order".
Here is my original comments on the afterlife:
I have been actively seek to establish a better understanding of the world is very painful for their reasons. The supernatural world is so mess with theory and guessing, I gave up trying to make it clear that how they are grouped together. Sometimes it makes me know cannot explain the puzzle.
Small pocket understanding, at least in my own thoughts, have appeared, especially in the field of ghost hunting. I joined a supernatural team last year and have been informally learning all the nuts and bolts do survey more speculative morphology resonance theory support Rupert Sheldrake (really open a piece of dandelion give me after operation).
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February 20, 2013 at 04:57 AM
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