Zerdini points me to a very good article about controversial medium David Thompson:

http://paranormalreview.com/articles/20110816

The comments are also worth reading.

Comments

[sbu]

Interesting article. I find it quite odd that a bit of electromagnectic radiation should be able to 'harm' the spirits. If we can't detect any spirits with our physical science it's strange they are affected by it (and accidentally the frequencies that constitutes the visible range).

[Sandy]

A few days ago, I got into a correspondence with a parapsychologist about an attempt I made to quash some anomalous phenomenon by turning on all the lights in my house. (It didn't work, BTW). He wanted to know what gave me the idea that I could suppress anomalous phenomenon in such a manner. (He also told me to read up on a number of famous mediums who reportedly produced phenomenon under well lit conditions.)

I told him that I've heard so many reports that mediums need to work in the dark. I took that to mean I could stop phenomenon by turning on as many lights as possible. It didn't work though. He told me that there was no reason to think it should have worked.

So when I read about Thompson, it doesn't make any sense to me that the light would bother him so much. Maybe it does inhibit some phenomenon, but it obviously doesn't stop all of it. (I wish it did.)

[Zerdini]

All materialisation mediums of the past used red or blue light in their seances.

Alec Harris had three red lights so everything could be clearly seen.
read: "Alec Harris: The Full Story of His Remarkable Physical Mediumship".

Hunter Selkirk used blue lights in his seances. Read "Listen my Son" by Harry Emerson about the work of this famous medium.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

Zerdini,

Do you know if these photographs of ectoplasm are genuine?

Thanks,

http://www.survivalebooks.org/Webber/webberphotos.htm

[Zerdini]

Yes they were:

Leon Isaacs, who took the photographs at Webber’s circles, used two cameras placed at different angles…shots using this two-camera technique showed the disposition of trumpets and other objects, establishing that they were not held aloft by any material agency.

Isaac’s pictures were taken by flashlight, the source of the light being screened by an infrared filter which suppressed practically all visible light rays and only permitted infrared emanations to pass.

In effect there was a brief glow at the instant of exposure which had no harmful effects on the medium.

Many of the photos of Jack Webber were taken by a 'Daily Mirror' photographer.

Harry Edwards can be seen in some of the photographs as one of the sitters.

THE following report occupied the best part of the two centre pages of the Daily Mirror on February 28th, 1939. "Cassandra" is the pen-name of a gentleman on the staff of the Daily Mirror who writes a daily pertinent review on matters in general. He is well known for his cryptic and biting sarcasm, and has, on numbers of occasions, given full vent to his opposition to spiritualism.

The séance in question was held in North London at a place to which the medium had never been before, and the people present were complete strangers.

Mr. Leon Isaacs had been asked to take infra-red photographs. The problem arose as to the means of transporting the equipment, and since "Cassandra" had a car, he was asked to help this way. Thus the only reason why "Cassandra" was present was because he possessed a car.

The article was illustrated by a photograph (Plate No. 20), with the following description beneath it "The medium in a trance, lashed to the chair, while a table leaves the ground and books fly through the air ... a photograph taken during the séance attended by 'Cassandra.'

The heading was "Cassandra got a surprise at Séance," and his report, in his caustic manner, reads as follows:

"I claim I can bring as much scepticism to bear on spiritualism as any newspaper writer living, and that's a powerful load of scepticism these days. I haven't got an open mind on the subject--I'm a violent, prejudiced unbeliever with a limitless ability to leer at the unknown. At least, I was till last Saturday. And then I got a swift, sharp, ugly jolt that shook most of my pet sneers right out of their sockets.

"Picture to yourself a small room in a typical suburban house. In one corner a radio-gramophone. In the centre a ring of chairs. At the far end an armchair."

"About a dozen people filed in and sat in the circle. I hope they won't mind my saying it, but they struck me as a credulous collection that would have brought tears of joy to a sharepusher's eyes."

"Almost everyone a genuine customer for a lovely phony gold brick."

"They sat down and the medium, a young Welsh ex-miner, was then roped to the arm-chair. The photographer and I stood outside the circle. The lights went out and we sailed rapidly into the unknown."

"The medium gurgled like water running out of a bath, and we opened up with a strangled prayer."

"The circle of believers answered with 'All Hail the Power of Jesu's Name,' and I was told that we were 'on the brink.' I thought we were in Cockfosters, Herts, but I soon began to doubt it when trumpets sprayed with luminous paint shot round the room like fishes in a tank. They hovered like pike in a stream, and then swam slowly about.

"The medium snored and struggled for breath."

"Hymns, Trumpets"

"Somebody put a record on, and we were soon bellowing 'Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do.' The trumpets beat time and hurled themselves against the ceiling."
"A bell rang."
"There was considerable excited laughter, and in a slight hysteria we sang 'There is a green hill far away,' followed by the profane, secular virility of 'John Brown's body.'

"A tambourine with 'God is Love' written on it became highly unreasonable, and flew up noisily round our heads.

"The rough stertorous breathing of the medium continued, and a faint tapping sound heralded a voice speaking from one of the trumpets that was well adrift from its moorings. A faint, childish voice said in a voice of deep melancholy that it was 'Very, very happy.' More voices spoke."

"Water was splashed about (there was none in the room when we started) and books took off from their shelves."

"Table moved."

"The medium remained lashed to his chair."

"A clockwork train ran across the floor."

"Suddenly a heavy table slowly left the ground. The man who was sitting next to it said calmly 'The table's gone !' The photographer released his flash-you see the result on the right."

"At no time did the medium move from his chair. I swear it."

"The table landed with a thump in the middle of the circle. A book that was on it remained in position."

"I'll pledge my word that not a soul in the room touched it. It was so heavy that it needed quite a husky fellow to lift it. I felt the weight of it afterward."

"What price cynicism ? What price heresy?"

"Don't ask me what it all means, but you can't tell me now that these strange and rather terrifying things don't happen."

"I was there. I saw them. I went to scoff."
"But the laugh is sliding slowly round to the other side of my face."
(Signed) 'CASSANDRA.'

[Sandy]

Zerdini, if lights don't stop the phenomenon from occurring, then what does?

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

Zerdini posted:

"Isaac’s pictures were taken by flashlight, the source of the light being screened by an infrared filter which suppressed practically all visible light rays and only permitted infrared emanations to pass."

Sandy wrote

"I told him that I've heard so many reports that mediums need to work in the dark. I took that to mean I could stop phenomenon by turning on as many lights as possible. It didn't work though. He told me that there was no reason to think it should have worked."

Sandy,

Strong light is supposed to inhibit the formation of ectoplasm into organized structures. If the phenomena you were experiencing were due to ectoplasm, you and everyone around you would see the ectoplasm. The fact that you don't see any ectoplasm means that light would probably not inhibit the phenomena you experience.

My understading is that not all physical mediums produced ectoplasm. There are different ways spirits have of producing the phenomena. Also I've never heard of poletrgeist phenomena being caused by ectoplasm.

[Zerdini]

There is a lot of misunderstanding about light and ectoplasm.

Ectoplasm can be visible and invisible.

It is the physical medium who is affected if a light is suddenly switched on during a seance. The shock to the medium can cause the ectoplasm to retract very quickly in many cases causing bruising or in the case of Alec Harris, and others I've known, an instant haemorrhage.

On the other hand, with the cooperation of the medium's controls, light can be introduced without causing any harm to the medium.

As I stated earlier red or blue light can used in a seance room without causing any problems.

Zerdini, if lights don't stop the phenomenon from occurring, then what does?

The fact that Sandy can produce what she does in the light suggests that other factors may be involved. We are learning all the time and one shouldn't be dogmatic about these things.

IMO the way you will get an answer to your question is by experimentation and trial and error.

[zerdini]

REPORT OF A SÉANCE BY BERNARD GRAY (Sunday Pictorial).

THE séance reported took place on May 24th, 1939, and occupied two pages of the Sunday Pictorial dated May 28th, 1939.

Mr. Gray prefaced his report with an affidavit as follows:

"I, BERNARD GRAY, of 27, Barn Rise, Wembley Park, in the County of Middlesex, journalist, make Oath and say as follows -
"1. That my description of the incidents enumerated in the Article written by me hereunto annexed and marked 'B.G.' to appear in the issue of the Sunday Pictorial of the Twenty-eighth day of May One thousand nine hundred and thirty-nine under the heading of' I Swear I Saw This Happen' is true.
"2. I further make Oath and say that the incidents so described in such Article did occur in my presence."
This oath was sworn before a solicitor yesterday.

I bound him to his chair, hand and foot, with knots and double knots which a sailor once taught me.

Just to make sure he couldn't wriggle out and back without my knowing it, I tied lengths of household cotton from the ropes to the chair legs. And I sewed up the front of his jacket with stout thread.

So began my second investigation into the mysteries of Spiritualism.

The man I had trussed up was Jack Webber, formerly a Welsh miner. He's now a medium - a man for whom such remarkable claims are made that I selected him for my first test.

Through him, I was told, are performed some of the most astonishing miracles of spirit power, physical demonstrations intended to prove the reality of life after death.

And in this, my second adventure into Spiritualism during my association with the Sunday Pictorial, I want physical phenomena.

Startling deeds, not words, as proof. Not testimonies of people claiming to be healed, not messages from the dead. Just material facts which a materially minded man like me can grasp.

I want final and complete conviction. That is more important to me than Hitler, the Axis, or even the threat of war. And that is why I have asked the Editor to allow me-for a while-to leave politics, and go in search of Truth.

So we sat, fourteen of us, a cheerful, talkative group of very ordinary people, in a plainly furnished room at Balham, London.

There was a Metropolitan policeman. A consulting engineer. A waiter. A postman. A foreman plumber. Several women of various ages. And next to me, between the medium and me, Mr. Harry Edwards, leader of the Balham Psychic Society, by trade a printer.

We all held hands loosely, Mr. Webber settled himself back as comfortably as my knots would allow, and out went the light, leaving only a red bulb gleaming dully through the darkness from the middle of the room.

Things began to happen immediately. They went on happening with remarkable rapidity, with startling variety, for ninety minutes.
But I do not want to recount them in order. For I want to describe first two astonishing happenings which make the rest seem small in contrast. Happenings which I, personally, can only compare with the miracles of the New Testament.

THERE WAS THE APPEARANCE, IN MID-AIR, SO TO SPEAK, OF A PERFECT HUMAN FACE.

I am sitting, remember, only one removed from the medium. An hour of the séance has gone by. The early tenseness, the trace of excitement, which perhaps affected me at the start has disappeared.

I am my normal, cool, and vigilant self-alert for any sign of deception, accustomed to the eerie glimmer of light we get from the red bulb near the ceiling.

In the corner, so near I can touch him, the medium is breathing heavily, gulping occasionally, moaning uneasily at times, like a man with a nightmare.

Suddenly, he gurgles alarmingly, as if making some still greater effort.
Before me rises a kind of tablet, rather like a slate, and from the upper surface it sheds a luminous white light.
I watch it intently, not in the least perturbed. I saw it in its normal state before the séance started. An ordinary piece of four-ply wood, about a foot long and nine inches wide.

Now it hovers in front of the medium's face, its soft radiance lighting his features so clearly I can see the closed eyes and the twitching lips.

It moves gently down to his hands and I see quite clearly that the arms are still bound to the chair.

"IT'S SHOWING YOU THE MEDIUM TO CONVINCE YOU HE'S STILL IN THE SAME POSITION," MR. EDWARDS EXPLAINS, IN A NORMAL TONE. " AH ! YOU'RE REALLY GOING TO SEE SOMETHING NOW ! "
The glowing tablet has moved over to me. It hangs motionless so close to my face I feel that if I breathe hard I shall blow it away.
"Watch!" says Mr. Edwards, giving my hand a squeeze.

Then above the tablet I begin to see something white emerging from the darkness. Almost invisible at first, it grows stronger every moment, like a motor car headlamp advancing through fog ; until I can clearly see it as a diaphanous ellipse, standing on its end, as it were, on the tablet.

"Ectoplasm," says Mr. Edwards. "Watch closely in the centre of it !"
No need to tell me. My eyes are glued on it, though, I want to emphasize, I'm still cool and unemotional.

Now, framed in this luminous halo, I can perceive dimly what appear to be features. They are becoming clearer, easier to trace. There's the nose, and - yes the mouth. The eyes, and, my God ! The eyelids are moving.
The tablet moves still closer. The eyes, soft and natural, are looking directly into mine. I jerk myself back to a detached, inquisitive state of mind, examine the thing in front of me closely and searchingly.

It's not like the pictures of spirit faces many of us have seen in Spiritualist papers. It's not white and unearthly, like the frame in which it is set. RATHER IS IT A HUMAN FACE - BUT SOFTER, FINER, AND SOMEHOW DIFFERENT.
I can trace the cheek-bones fading back from the eyes. The lips, they are quite clear. The chin, rounded and delicate, is silhouetted against the lower rim of the halo.

I recognize it suddenly as the face of a very old lady. Just like a lovely miniature - for it is much smaller, now I come to think, than the face of any human adult.

"Try and speak to us," says Mr. Edwards, encouragingly.
I am watching the lips. They part a little, move with an effort.
There's a whisper. What is she saying ? Who is she speaking to ? Yes - I've got it.

"MY BOY, MY BOY," WHISPERS A WOMAN'S VOICE, IN THE TONE A WEALTH OF LOVE, OR MAYBE COMPASSION.
"Who's she speaking to ?" I ask, without taking my eyes off the face for a second.
"You," replies Edwards."Speak to her!"
"Who are you ?" I ask, gently.
"I am--," she answers, and whispers a name I shall not repeat - it is personal.

"I cannot stay," she goes on. "I just want you all to see me. God bless you, my boy ..."

The tablet and its burden move away. I can see it floating around our circle. Other sitters are exclaiming that they can see it, quite plainly, that it's wonderful.
I'M GLAD I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN SEE IT...

The tablet returns to me. The features in the miniature are fading, like outlines yielding to the dusk of a summer evening. Now the halo is going too.
Only the tablet is left. Its gleam disappears with the suddenness of a light being extinguished. The tablet falls with a clatter at my feet.

"Lights on," says a voice instantly.
There's the click of a switch. In less than five seconds the whole room is bathed in electric light. Everybody is in his or her place, holding hands.
The medium is bound just the same in his chair unconscious in his trance.
AND AT MY FEET IS THE BIT OF COMMON FOUR-PLY WOOD. . .

The deep voice which comes from the medium's corner - they call it the voice of Black Cloud, Webber's Indian spirit "guide" says:
"I want the gentleman sitting next to Mr. Edwards to hold the medium's right hand. I want the lady on the left of the medium to hold his left hand."
Edwards guides my hand over his knees to the hand of the medium. I feel my fingers seized in a powerful grasp. The pressure tightens till it hurts. I set my teeth and wait.

The medium is moaning like a man in pain.
I can feel a soft fabric rubbing against my wrist. "Can you feel his coat ?" asks the deep voice in the corner.
"I can feel some kind of material on my wrist," I answer, readily.
"I am dematerializing his coat and taking it off."
Now the coat is rubbing the other side of my wrist. Something drops to the floor with a light, rustling impact.

"LIGHTS ON," SAYS THE VOICE SHARPLY.
Simultaneously, it seems, somebody presses the switch.
The medium is in his shirt-sleeves. He is no longer wearing his coat. Round his arms, over his shirt now, are the ropes, still fastened by my patent knots.
The thin strands of cotton from the ropes to the chair are unbroken.
On the floor, the medium's jacket. Not a stitch holding the edges together broken. My twisted thread round the button just as I had left it.

"That is merely intended to prove to you that the spirit world exists and has power to dematerialize," says the deep voice in the corner, when the lights are off again. "Later I hope to replace the medium's coat."

Half an hour later the lady on the other side and I are asked to hold Webber's hands a second time. Again the grip is firm enough to be painful.

A rustling. Cloth rubbing against my wrist again. Yes, and now the other side.
Lights. Webber is wearing his coat once more. Over and round each arm, the bonds. The cotton intact. The thread just as before. BUT THE BONDS AND THE COTTON ARE OVER THE COAT.
"My hand was gripped by his all the time," says the girl across from me, rubbing her fingers. "And I felt the coat go through my wrist. Didn't you ?"

Well, those two happenings, or miracles - call them what you like, take a bit of explaining away.

There were other things too. Heaps of them.
"I can feel a hand on my head," said Mr. Edwards, casually, just as if it were quite a natural thing for a hand to emerge from nowhere.

"I can feel something on my head," I said a moment later, and gripped Edwards's hand more tightly to make sure it hadn't been raised.

Something was pulling my hair pretty hard. I realized then with a sense of shock that the "something" was definitely fingers, yet rather different from human fingers. They felt sharper, more like claws, seemed almost metallic at the tips.
My neighbour chuckled.
"I know what they're doing," he said, highly amused.
The fingers pulled me firmly by the hair in Edwards's direction, till my head was touching his. My hair was pulled and twisted about for fully a minute. "We're being tied together," said my neighbour, laughing. "Can't you feel your hair being twisted with mine ?"
We were tied together, too ! We couldn't separate, and the séance was held up for a moment or two while the lights were put on so that we could be unraveled.

"A mischievous trick," said everybody else, laughing at our plight. Mischievous, all right. Inexplicable, too. I'll swear nobody moved before, during, or after the knots were tied in our hair.

Frequently throughout the proceedings the luminous trumpets were shooting about the room three at a time, with the speed and accuracy of swallows in flight.

"I should like to be absolutely sure nobody is holding them," I said boldly, though I myself considered it impossible.

One of the trumpets shot straight at my head with the speed of an express train, pulled up sharp just as it touched my temple, and I cringed expecting a knock-out blow.

That tin cone proceeded to run itself on my face and round my head, pressing first the broad end, then the narrow end, against my lips to prove it had no earthly connection at any point on its surface.

A bell which I'd seen on a table in a corner rose into the air and rang a rhythmic accompaniment to our singing. A pair of clappers, similar to those used by a dance band drummer, floated about clacking merrily in time with the music.

In a powerful bass voice, which has been recorded on gramophone discs, "Reuben" led some of the singing. Toys in the room, illuminated by a strange incandescent glow, leapt from the table and sailed about near the ceiling.

A boy, I was told, plays with the toys - a boy who died some years ago.

As something moved off the table and began to dart about the room, Mr. Edwards explained that it was a doll.
Whatever it was, it settled on my knee, and frolicked up and down my leg. I could feel it as well as see it glowing, like an outsize glowworm. It came to rest finally on my knee. And when the lights came on, I found that it was indeed a toy elephant, such as any child would use in play.

You see, therefore, it wasn't a gloomy gathering by any means. The strange pranks with the toys - a clockwork engine wound itself up and ran itself down near the ceiling - distinctly enlivened the proceedings.

All these little things, however, paled into insignificance beside a remarkable demonstration of furniture removing by unseen hands.

THE HEAVY TABLE IN THE CORNER, JUST BEHIND ME, ROSE STRAIGHT UP INTO THE AIR, BRUSHING MY COAT AS IT PASSES IT, SETTLED ONE LEG LIGHTLY ON MY SHOULDER FOR A MOMENT, WAS WAFTED RIGHT OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROOM AND DESCENDED TO THE FLOOR WITH A DISTINCT BANG.

I saw it in passage, because it was outlined against the red light.
And of course there were spirit messages for some of the sitters. I do not want to write about them. In this series of articles I am concerned more with incidents. Well, that is my testimony. I cannot explain anything I saw.

BUT EVERY WORD I HAVE WRITTEN IS TRUE.
And although many of my friends will think I've gone crazy - I say again : I SAW IT HAPPEN.

[Douglas]

I think there is some psychic activity going on with thompson bt he may be deluding himself that these are genuine spirits - perhaps its a mixture where you get some genuine communications mixed up with projections from Thompson's own subconsious and he cant really tell the difference. So I dont think its intentional fraud but it may be unintentional.

regarding the trainers reference, the writer says he is sure he felt the outline of trainers, but again this is no more verifiable than thompson's claim to be a genuine spirit. The writer feels convinced that he felt the outline of a trainer on his foot - but maybe thats what he expected to feel.

As with thompson, the writer couldnt actually see anything, so I dont think the trainer description really proves or disproves anything.

I agree that red light needs to come into play ASAP to resolve these issues - we can only hope!

[Matt Rouge]

Someday, someone is going to set up an infrared camera in the room without his knowledge, and it's going to produce some "interesting" results.

A lot of people have raised some basic questions about Thompson; one does not need to get into the really complicated stuff to have serious doubts.

For example, in the comments on the linked page, P Wadhams says,

Why on earth should two people as disparate as Armstrong and Crisp choose to manifest through an Australian, in the UK, to a group that did not know either of them personally? Don't they have better things to do? Armstrong, for instance, could manifest through some circle in New Orleans where some of the sitters might know him. Answer (obviously): because these two have characteristic voices which are easily imitated.

I have heard the Armstrong voice on a Thompson recording, and it is an absolute travesty: a caricature (and a virtually racist one at that) of the man's voice, a mini minstrel show. Apparently Thompson "materializes" a black woman from the South named Mae, which continues the minstrel show with lines like, "It sho is!" (I did not hear her on the recording, but she is mentioned in the comments on the linked page.)

The voice of Timmy is another total joke Does it sound like a real child talking? Not at all. It sounds like a grown man very poorly imitating a child's voice in terms of pitch (unnaturally high-pitched and squeaky, almost like Mickey Mouse), cadence (fake-y playful) and content (idiotic).

Supposedly, Thompson is not using his mouth *at all.* He is supposed to be gagged. These are, in theory, "actual" ectoplasmic people entering the room and using their own ectoplasmic mouths.

So here's another question: Why doesn't a woman ever appear and speak in a natural woman's voice? I could not find any such case on the recordings that were available at the time (around 2003), and I would be curious to hear if anyone here has ever seen such a thing.

It seems that Thompson only ever produces people with the following types of voices:

1. Male with British accent or similar accent. Caldwell is of course the person who speaks the most. Quentin Crisp is another Britisher who makes frequent appearances.

2. Male with very exaggerated non-British accent (Louis Armstrong, whose voice should not be so exaggerated but is with Thompson).

3. Female with very exaggerated accent (like "Mae"), although females are extremely rare/small in number with Thompson (would love to see examples to the contrary).

So here's my preliminary conclusion. Thompson is doing the voices, plain and simple. He does not even do them very well, from what I heard on the recordings.

It is a joke that the same spirits would come through again and again like that. I can understand a control like Caldwell (who has his own issues, such as not having existed) being dedicated to the medium and coming through again and again, but Louis Armstrong? That is a joke. And it seems to be the same crap, show after show.

I am not a debunker. When people say they saw amazing things, I tend to take them at their word unless something is fishy. (Actually, I use a bit of fuzzy logic in my mind, which is something skeptics seem incapable of doing: "This is true assuming the person is not lying or mistaken, and I will add the case to many others of which I have secondhand knowledge, which, in the aggregate, cannot all come down to lies and errors.)

But there is a lot fishy here, and the "show" is pretty easy to explain. Thompson is tied to the chair with cable ties (which are a commodity item and can easily be replaced; it would be more impressive if there were tape over the cable ties with Sharpie lines over the tape and ties which could not be rewritten in the dark). During the loud music, when people are singing (a loud distraction, duh), a confederate cuts Thompson out of his bonds, and he freely walks about, touches people, and makes the voices himself. At some point, he reverses his sweater (a cheap carnival trick if ever there was one--but one that can help confuse any observer who seeks to see if the cable ties are exactly the same as before), the confederate puts on new cable ties, the chair is crashed a distance from the cabinet, and Thompson is seated again and bound to the chair (not sure how he starts off in the chair, but he's returned to that state).

Yes, it does require some stage magic skill to do right, but no debunker's stretching of the imagination is required here (i.e., Uri Geller might have been looking through a pipe in the wall that was blocked up anyway and through which the remote viewing target was not in view anyway).

Thompson may have mediumistic ability, and he may have produced real phenomena at some point, but he clearly took the path to fraud at some point and has remained on that ignoble road.

[Zerdini]

Douglas

The only person wearing any kind of footwear was David Thompson!

Why the others had to take off their shoes is beyond me. In all the seances I've attended over the years I was never asked to do that.

[Zerdini]

Matt,

You are asking the same questions as many of us have done over the years.

The voices of mediums, who I have known personally and are purported to communicate bear no resemblance to their voices or personality or memories which I would expect.

Zammit comes up with all sorts of ridiculous reasons - this from a man who has never seen a full form materialization - to explain it away.

[Zerdini]

David Thompson has now moved on to Spain and is doing a physical seance on the 22nd, 24th and 26th August.

[Open Mind]

Why have all the comments disappeared from below Roy Stemman's article?

[Open Mind]

Here is one comment I found interesting in the comments section ...

'... some of us decided to do a major investigation of David..... including a former ASIO operative (the equivalent of your MI5) ... tested David consistently for fifteen months..' - Victor Zammit

Did this person ever write a report? Anyone know?

[Michael Prescott]

I don't know where the comments went, but the Paranormal Review site has been having some technical problems lately. Maybe the comments will return.

[Zerdini]

The comments are still there (37 in total).

[Matt Rouge]

Whole site seems down right now.

[Zerdini]

Here is one comment I found interesting in the comments section ...

'... some of us decided to do a major investigation of David..... including a former ASIO operative (the equivalent of your MI5) ... tested David consistently for fifteen months..' - Victor Zammit

Did this person ever write a report? Anyone know?

That comment is taken from Victor Zammit's email to Roy Stemman.

The ASIO operative in question is Chris Hood , the leader of David Thompson's circle!

[Zerdini]

Whole site seems down right now.

It was there a few minutes ago but now has a message stating:

We're very sorry, but the page could not be loaded properly. This should be fixed very soon, and we apologize for any inconvenience.

[Zerdini]

It's been fixed and the comments are there now.

[Zerdini]

You can also read a variety of comments on the seance here:

http://spiritofpn.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/david-thompson-seance-%e2%80%93-spirit-or-flesh/#comments

[Open Mind]

Zerdini,

Interesting conversation with Sandy above about light ...

Has any of the books, researchers or even guides you've met over the years attempted to make any connection between pitch dark (e.g. séance claims) and the observer/measurement problem in quantum mechanics?

There are over a dozen interpretations of the QM measurement problem, I do not know if any that quite assumes the 'observer' requires a light source to measure but it would be interesting for some physicist to speculate ... unfortunately most are not likely to take the claims seriously.

In most red light seances, isn't the medium *usually* non-observed in a cabinet by witnesses and only the ectoplasm moves outside .. there still seems to be observing problems.

Also most mediums seem in trance state, a non-observering state with little awareness of what is taking place or took place.

Now, if it has nothing to do with physics, what are these cabinets or low light conditions all about? Ignoring the common skeptics suspicions and accepting these phenomena are real, the spiritualists often say the cabinet is to 'build power' whatever that means (physics?) ... but could it be that partially materialized 'dead' relatives could looked very distorted or disturbing until fully formed so the experimental circles are held in low light or with cabinet until hopefully they achieve somewhere near the goal of fully materialized forms in decent light?

Or?

[Douglas]

Zerdini,

I would still like to hear your explanation of how a luminous trumpet can fly around the room and bounce off the ceiling and move between the sitters with perfect ease, such as has been reported by numerous sitters.

I just don't think it very likely that Thompson is able to do this, or anybody while in pitch darkness.

This is why I do think that there is genuine psychic activity going on.

I think the real question is whether the activity is due to genuine spirit communications or projections of Thompson's own subconscious - he may not be able to tell the difference.

Bear in mind that both explanations are not mutually exclusive - it could be a mixture of both - which makes things even more confusing.

[Open Mind]

I see the comments have disappeared again ... this is a bit like ectoplasm .... keep dematerializing :)

[Rudolf Smit]

Thompson has accepted an invitation to come to the Netherlands next year. If all goes well, I will attend that session. For me it will only be succesful when the materialisations speak in perfect Dutch to me, if they are supposed to be the materialisations of passed over relatives or famous historic Dutch people. I won't go for anything less.
After all, Thompson's mother tongue is English, and he has not learned any other language as far as I know. A good physical medium should be able to transmit other languages than his own.

[Zerdini]

Rudolf, you won't see any materialisations as Thompson is not a materialisation medium nor will anyone converse with you in Dutch.

I can confidently state the above as all sorts of excuses will be trotted out why they can't do it and if you insist you will be barred from attending any seances.

[Zerdini]

In addition it will take place in complete darkness so you will not be able to see anything.

[Zerdini]

@open mind

In a genuine materialisation seance (eg Alec Harris) there were three red light bulbs which enabled the observer to see everything very clearly.

This type of mediumship is very rare and has mainly taken place within the confines of a home circle.

Public demonstrations of materialisation mediumship are not to be recommended as they can lead to all types of accusations (justifiable or not).

In the final analysis it's the evidence that counts.

[Zerdini]

@Douglas:

The usual explanation for flying trumpets is that they are manipulated by 'psychic rods' using energy (ectoplasm) supplied by the medium and/or the sitters.

For a good example of psychic rods read the mediumship of Kathleen Goligher.

Michael Tymn discusses this in his book "The Articulate Dead".

There may well be psychic activity taking place with Thompson but, as you suggest, it may be a mixture in which his subconscious mind plays a prominent part.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

http://circleofthesilvercord.net/?page_id=93

"The following scene was actually a quite emotional reunion of a grieving mother and her son, who crossed over at 29. I sat pretty close to her and could hear the alien sound of flowing ectoplasm and her son’s materialisation. The next second he spoke right in front of her face and again the words were fluent German with a Swiss intonation."

"The other personal one followed a special experiment by the Spirit Team of enabling ectoplasm extruding from David to be seen via red light by everyone present. Under very controlled conditions and instructions given by William, the Spirit Leader, three photographs were taken."

"I could hear him materialize then walk toward me. Then it happened! Two large hands placed firmly on my face and my grandfather was speaking from right in front of me. He patted my face, my shoulders, and my face again while speaking of my endeavours to help people through healing and expressed how excited he was to have the opportunity to materialize also. The moment, “my moment with my Pop” lasted for around 3 minutes I guess but it changed my life completely. The one thing I noticed overall is no one in that room had ever laid eyes on me or my grandfather, ever before, but when Pop touched my face; his hand was missing the same finger and a half he was missing when he walked among us."

[Matt Rouge]

jshgfcre98ijyds,

That would be an amazing seance, and it seems a far cry from what Thompson has been doing lately.

As I said, it seems like he got on the wrong track at some point.

Cheers,

Matt

[Michael Prescott]

Those testimonials are interesting, but the seances reported by Victor Zammit don't offer anything close to phenomena of that type. Recordings of the seances that were available online also don't sound at all convincing. I don't know if those recordings are still online, but in the ones I heard, the voices all sounded like the work of one man doing some amateurish mimicry. And none of the spirits spoke in foreign languages. In one case a "spirit" gave a Scandinavian woman a note written in her native language, but the note obviously could have been prepared ahead of time, since her participation in the seance wasn't a secret.

Two or three people who attended Thompson's seances have described them to me, and again, they said nothing about any events remotely as evidential as the ones presented in those testimonials.

So are the testimonials genuine, and somehow Thompson's defenders habitually forget to mention the most outstanding evidence? Or are the testimonials less reliable than we would like to believe?

[zerdini]

From the same testimonial:

"William one of David’s communicators was the first to come through, he fully materialised in the room, and walked around talking to various people.

An excellent example of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about!

'William' did not fully materialise as it was pitch dark and no-ne could see anything.

I sat pretty close to her and could hear the alien sound of flowing ectoplasm and her son’s materialisation.

This could only be said by someone who has never sat in a real materialisation seance.

There is no 'alien sound' of flowing ectoplasm when spirit people materialise.

The gurgling sounds given out by David Thompson are actually quite revolting.

"The next second he spoke right in front of her face and again the words were fluent German with a Swiss intonation."

What were the words actually spoken?

"The other personal one followed a special experiment by the Spirit Team of enabling ectoplasm extruding from David to be seen via red light by everyone present. Under very controlled conditions and instructions given by William, the Spirit Leader, three photographs were taken."

If red light can be used to take photographs then the whole seance can be done in red light.

"I could hear him materialize then walk toward me.

...oh I forgot to mention that I couldn't see anything! (my words)

[zerdini]

MP wrote:

In one case a "spirit" gave a Scandinavian woman a note written in her native language, but the note obviously could have been prepared ahead of time, since her participation in the seance wasn't a secret.

The words on the note read "Jag älskar dig" which in English means "I love you".

When I was in Sweden I heard this expression many times.

Knowing the Swedish woman was coming to the seance the note could, as MP rightly stated, have been prepared in advance using Google translator.

No real evidence at all!

[Open Mind]

I am not going to claim Thompson is a complete fake ... I've not been there, so I will only express doubt.

But as a hypothesis we assume Thompson is hoaxing all of it, would he need an accomplise?

Do some regular sitters always attend all Thompson seances? Anyone know?

[Douglas]

I really don't buy the explanation that Thompson is actively faking the sessions. Zammit, for all his failings, is a crusader (too much so in fact), and i don't buy that he's involved in actually faking spirit communications.

I can only go on what I have read from testimonies of people who have been there, and I can only come to the conclusion that some high level psychic activity is definitely taking place.

Beyond that, I can't say. The comical nature of some of the voices do suggest to me that many of the voices are projections. They sound like what Thompson imagines these people would sound like, often in caricature.

However, from some of the testimonies it seems likely that there is some genuine spirit communication at times, and some relatives have left with good evidence that they have met with their loved ones.

I think the problem stems from the fact that Thompson can't really tell what is a genuine communication and what is coming from the recesses of his own mind, and neither can Zammit.

Of course they both go on the defensive if asked to back up their claims, as they feel that such requests are a personal attack on their integrity. They don't seem to realise that in acting the way they do, they are damaging their integrity even more.

Both Zammit and Thompson need to step away from things and take a look at how their behaviour is coming across to others. They are verging into paranoia at the moment.

[Matt Rouge]

Douglas,

You wrote,

I can only go on what I have read from testimonies of people who have been there, and I can only come to the conclusion that some high level psychic activity is definitely taking place.

With all due respect, so the "high-level psychic activity" just happens to result in Thompson having his sweater reversed every seance, in the same spirits coming through every time, and so on?

The repetitive (and often cheesy) nature of the events leads me to believe they are preplanned and faked.

But the rest, is, as you say. Victor consistently comes across as a unhinged these days.

Cheers,

Matt

[Douglas]

Matt: the well testified trumpet work is hard to explain.

If you think it's easy to fake that level of accuracy in pitch blackness, then I would encourage you to read Michael's blog about this very subject - it's easy to suggest this, much harder to do - near impossible in fact. Why not give it a go if you are so confident that such activity is faked?

To me, this kind of psychic manipulation of physical objects IS high level psychic activity. Note, I didnt say spirit activity -That hasnt been proved.

[Matt Rouge]

Douglas,

Yes, I don't know how to put it all together. Did you read the comments on the linked page? At one point, the commenter's feet were getting stepped on by the supposedly 19th-century spirit Caldwell, yet he could feel the soles of athletic shoes--and Thompson was the only one wearing shoes in the room, and they were athletic shoes!

Stuff like that just screams "Fake!" Other stuff is harder to explain.

So is Thompson in a trance and mixing fake and real phenomena? The mind boggles.

Cheers,

Matt

[Douglas]

Hi Matt, I don't get the trainers bit either.

If you wanted to push it, you could suggest the projection incorporates both the medium, Thompson, and the communicator, William. Thompson was the only one wearing trainers, so perhaps these were manifested.

Now, of course this sounds like bollocks.
However, the straightforward accusation of fraud doesnt feel right either.

There is another possibility however. We are simply going on the reviewer's belief that he felt the outline of ridged trainers? How come we accept his testimony as sacred? He could be mistaken. We might expect William to be wearing shoes, and I would expect the sitter to feel the ridges of these shoes as William pressedd down on his foot.

Can you really tell the difference between a shoe and a trainer upon the top of your foot in pitch darkness? I doubt this, to be honest.

However, we know that the reviewer NOTES that Thompson is the only one wearing trainers in the room, so if someone presses down on his foot during the session, he may well be expecting to feel for a trainer: Skeptics are always telling us that our minds interpret the evidence according to our expectations - why does this not apply to the skeptics themselves?

So I can't really take one reviewer's 'blind trainer feel' as evidence that the whole session is faked. We need more to go on to prove things one way or another.

[Matt Rouge]

Douglas,

I'm far less lenient than you. It's one thing for Thompson to not allow video, etc., so there is the suspicion that he is faking *good* phenomena. But the trouble is that he's producing *egregiously bad* phenomenon too.

Have you heard the audio tapes? They are atrocious. As Micheal described the voices, they sound like "amateurish mimicry."

So maybe it's psychic phenomena and not spiritual, you say. But Thompson, Zammit, et al. are aware of the *content* that is being produced, and they endorse it as, you know, good stuff.

They should know better.

It's an utter crock that they can't use infrared photography in the room. Put a camera in there and let us see what's going on. It's as simple as that.

Cheers,

Matt

[Douglas]

Hi Matt, I agree.

Although the total fraud option still doesnt do it for me, as I said.

Michael posted an article recently about genuine mediums engaged in 'unintentional fraud', where it was seen that they were removing bindings etc while in a trance state.

Could this be happening with Thompson?
Is he actually getting out of this chair in a trance state?

If this happened it would still be remarkable, because a certain amount of impressive psychic activity would still have to take place, in my opinion, to be able to navigate around in pitch blackness with total ease, undo and retie bindings, move chairs across the room, turn clothing inside out etc.

It's all very well saying any illusionist could do this - could they? They've been asked and so far they have all declined - they talk a good game but havent come up with the goods so far.

Testimonies from Thompson's earlier days were extremely promising. Moves towards red light and photo evidence were in process. It all seemed to be coming along nicely - then it all started going downhill. Why?

How about this for a scenario:

Linking in with Michael's earlier about 'unintentional trance fraud', imagine that during a private session, they DID decide to film Thompson or at least hold the session in red light, and to their horror, they saw him somehow getting out of his chair while in a trance state and then darting around the room like a maniac - still very impressive and indeed hard to explain, given how his ties seem to come away and then do themsleves up by magic, the chair moves, objects perhaps fly around the room - all very impressive in demonstrating psychic activity, but this doesnt detract from the full horror: Thompson is walking about the room in a trance state - total skeptic fodder!

Wouldnt you then be keen to cover this up as far as possible to save humiliation at the hands of the skeptics, and indeed even open minded individuals?

It's possible because we now know that some genuine mediums have been engaged in activities that we could refer to as unintentional fraud. Another way to look at it of course is that its all part of the psychic manipulation of physical objects during seances - this manipulation may extend to the medium's body itself.

[zerdini]

Do some regular sitters always attend all Thompson seances? Anyone know?

The regular sitters are those who sit in his home circle.

Since Thompson announced that he is doing this full time he needs to do lots of seances in addition to his trance and healing workshops plus mental mediumship to generate enough income to replace what he has given up. This can lead to all sorts of problems.

[zerdini]

The comical nature of some of the voices do suggest to me that many of the voices are projections. They sound like what Thompson imagines these people would sound like, often in caricature.

Indeed they do. The voices of the ones he regularly produces are available on the internet.

However, from some of the testimonies it seems likely that there is some genuine spirit communication at times, and some relatives have left with good evidence that they have met with their loved ones.

A transcript of what was actually said in their own recognisable voice would be helpful. How many are prepared to do that rather than just saying I knew it was my (insert appropriate relative)?

[zerdini]

Matt: the well testified trumpet work is hard to explain.

It isn't hard to explain at all.

In my reply earlier I gave you an explanation. Many physical mediums e.g. Stuart Adamson aka Alexander (his middle name) still do it today. It is not exclusive to Thompson.

It doesn't prove anything. What is wanted is cast-iron evidence of survival and that is sadly lacking.

[zerdini]

We are simply going on the reviewer's belief that he felt the outline of ridged trainers? How come we accept his testimony as sacred? He could be mistaken.

The reviewer (Roy Stemman) is a journalist and author and is one of the most experienced in the subject.

His latest book "Spirit Communication" is well worth reading.

He is a former Assistant Editor of "Psychic News" under the late Maurice Barbanell and knows the subject inside out.

[zerdini]

Douglas, if you had studied the history of physical mediumship you would know it is not so simplistic as you seem to think.

There are many anomalies in physical mediumship.

[Douglas]

Hi Zerdini,

As pure speculation then, what do you think is going on with Thompson?

[Michael Prescott]

"Zammit, for all his failings, is a crusader (too much so in fact), and i don't buy that he's involved in actually faking spirit communications."

For the record, I don't think Victor Zammit is faking anything. If Thompson's phenomena aren't genuine, then Zammit and most of the other sitters are being duped.

Regarding a possible accomplice, it's worth noting that Thompson's wife often attends the seances, and (in the descriptions I've read) it is she who straps him to the chair!

[zerdini]

Dougles, there are as many jokers and mischievous people in the spirit world as there are on earth.

I don't accept that he is in touch with any spiritually evolved spirits but rather those who are close to the earth and are able to manipulate matter.

That combined with his subconscious mind and you get a very mixed mediumship.

I am not suggesting the whole shebang is fraudulent but his, and those who support him, unwillingness to challenge the communicators and demand evidence of their identity speaks for itself.

His regular communicators, William, Tim, etc who gave their birth and death dates have been found to be false.

There is much more which he refuses to answer e.g. the 37 questions still on Facebook and other sites.

Demonstrably wrong information given by alleged communicators etc. etc.

[zerdini]

MP wrote:

Regarding a possible accomplice, it's worth noting that Thompson's wife often attends the seances, and (in the descriptions I've read) it is she who straps him to the chair!

Bianca (his ex-wife) used to do it.

Now it is his new partner, Christine Morgan, who straps him in.

[Matt Rouge]

Douglas,

You wrote,

Although the total fraud option still doesnt do it for me, as I said.

I don't know about "total fraud," but how about "a hell of a lot of fraud"? I don't see any way around that. At the very least, even if Thompson is not doing anything fraudulent on purpose (i.e., he's dancing around that room in a trance state with nothing premeditated but also nothing of a genuine spiritual nature happening), he's still got to look at his results, and at this point he should be questioning them. He should be questioning the childish voices and also the paucity of good information coming from the "spirits." At this point, he is either continuing to put on "shows" despite his own reservations (fraud) or he has no such reservations (massive self-delusion).

Michael posted an article recently about genuine mediums engaged in 'unintentional fraud', where it was seen that they were removing bindings etc while in a trance state.

Could this be happening with Thompson?
Is he actually getting out of this chair in a trance state?

After awhile he should be able to figure this out for himself. He could also experiment with photography, etc., on his own to determine what is going on per the maxim, "Know thyself."

If this happened it would still be remarkable, because a certain amount of impressive psychic activity would still have to take place, in my opinion, to be able to navigate around in pitch blackness with total ease, undo and retie bindings, move chairs across the room, turn clothing inside out etc.

Yes, but I find this much less likely than the possibility of outright fraud. If he is in trance and out of control, then why doesn't he make some noise or give the game away at some point? After all, whether he's in a trance or not, he's *not* delivering what he says he's delivering. If ectoplasmic spirits are appearing, then there is no problem--there's no mistakes to be caught. If it's all him, however, he could get caught at any time. He would seem much less likely to get caught if he's working the room like an illusionist and not working in a trance.

Do you see what I mean? Which is more likely to pull off a complex magic act: A stage illusionist who has set up the whole thing, doing tricks he's 100% confident about--or someone working in a trance and not even knowing what he's doing? I can't imagine the latter being consistent and careful over the long term.

It's all very well saying any illusionist could do this - could they? They've been asked and so far they have all declined - they talk a good game but havent come up with the goods so far.

I don't quite buy this. That's like saying any illusionist could look an any other illusionist's act and replicate it. Even if the tricks were understood, they might not have the physical skills/experience to do those *particular* tricks. It would at least take some time to practice and get right.

Thompson has been working in his particular environment for many years. Over time, he could have developed some pretty amazing illusions designed just for the seance environments that he himself influences.

Linking in with Michael's earlier about 'unintentional trance fraud', imagine that during a private session, they DID decide to film Thompson or at least hold the session in red light, and to their horror, they saw him somehow getting out of his chair while in a trance state and then darting around the room like a maniac - still very impressive and indeed hard to explain, given how his ties seem to come away and then do themsleves up by magic, the chair moves, objects perhaps fly around the room - all very impressive in demonstrating psychic activity, but this doesnt detract from the full horror: Thompson is walking about the room in a trance state - total skeptic fodder!

Yep, but at that point they need to come clean about it. It's not as though it's not fraud if it's due to psi--it's *still* fraud.

Everything you say is totally possible. In particular, though, it's the *consistency* of the phenomena that makes it seem like willful trickery to me. He *always* has to have his sweater on backwards at the end? Why would the spirits be moved to do this one fairly frivolous thing every time? And so on.

In any case, we don't disagree that much. Thompson needs, literally, to clean up his act one way or another.

Cheers,

Matt

[Douglas]

Hi Matt, we can both agree on that. The two photos released so far are not too convincing.

[Matt Rouge]

Did someone post the pix?

[Michael Prescott]

During the many discussions about Thompson on this blog, I and readers suggested numerous ways of tightening the controls. For instance, he could be tied with strings of many different colors, and a photo could be taken of how the strings were arranged. After the seance a second photo could be taken for comparison. Since it would be impossible to replace all the strings correctly in the dark, any attempt to untie and then retie the strings would result in a new arrangement.

Newspapers could be placed around the chair to pick up any noise if the medium were to leave his seat. He could be Velcroed to the chair. Additional plastic handcuffs could be applied to his elbows and shoulders (this was suggested by an escape artist).

The medium's wife could be excluded from the proceedings. An escape artist could be hired to secure the medium. Luminous strips could be applied to the medium's clothes.

Biographical questions could be asked of the spirits, with each sitter having studied the deceased person's life in detail. Louis Armstrong could be asked to play the sax, rather than a harmonica (a sax, or whatever instrument Arnstrong actually played, being much harder to smuggle into the seance room).

Many more suggestions were made. I know that Victor Zammit read some of those comment threads. Yet to my knowledge he and his team never implemented a single one of these suggestions, even though many of them would have been simple and cost-free.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

Read Sandy's comment here:

http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/michael_prescotts_blog/2011/08/i-found-this-video-by-frequent-commenter-sandy-very-impressive-httpsandstonesquarryblogspotcom201108lets-try-tha.html?cid=6a00d83451574c69e2014e8aea57d9970d#comment-6a00d83451574c69e2014e8aea57d9970d

Key quote:
"I found it very discouraging to find out that nothing will ever be enough to convince skeptics."

Now tell me why Thompson should respond to any of his critics?

Maybe Thompson knows there are sincere criticisms about his seances. Maybe he also knows enough about the history of psychical research and parapsychology to recognize that changing his methods in response to the criticisms or answering the critics' questions will not be of any help in silencing those critics.

[Sandy]

jshg, I had the same thought.

I have to admit that I was very relieved that my first visit to Laurentian wasn't a situation where I was overwhelmed by "controls". Mostly because I didn't have a clue what they were testing for until after it was over. So cheating wasn't an issue. (It's pretty hard to "fake" an EEG reading anyway.)

I'm a bit claustrophobic, and had concerns about the isolation room in the lab. I brought a teddy bear to hang onto when I was shut into that room. I had these awful visions of some mean skeptic dissecting my poor bear as a "control". But, of course, that didn't happen because the bear and I had no idea what they were testing me for at that point. (It was an environmental sensitivity test).

I understand the need for controls in the lab, but they have to be about learning new things, not about quashing phenomenon. I do think there is a difference between scientists interested in research and skeptics looking to debunk. I can also understand if someone like Thompson isn't interested in working with scientists. Not everyone does.

Even in a good situation, it can be a challenge working with scientists. I found it pretty exhausting and overwhelming at times. I think the benefits outweighed the difficulties in my case, but not everyone would want to do everything that I did.

[Matt Rouge]

jshgfcre98ijyds,

It's pretty simple.

Skeptic:

I don't believe in these phenomena. You got a positive result. Since the result is impossible, it must be due to fraud, error, etc.

Matt:

I *do* believe in these phenomena. Psi, physical mediumship, the works. But the phenomena you claim as genuine are in large degree prima facie unacceptable (cheesy voices, spirits claiming to be people who did not exist), and your complete control of the seance environment and refusal to allow any photography or videos is highly suspicious. For these and several other reasons I *AM* accusing you of fraud or, at best, deluding yourself into thinking you are channeling good and wise and genuine spirits.

---

That's the difference. If we accept your reasoning above, then we believers could never out anyone for fraud. Anything challenge would just be skeptical doubt. Clearly that's not the case with the crowd here.

I am saying that either Thompson is a fraud or he is sincerely but in a self-deluded manner producing garbage phenomena. The phenomena (at least the vast majority of them) are unacceptable.

Those are the horns of the dilemma for Thompson. Even if he is totally innocent of intentional cheating, he is still a bad medium. I would never accept that the horrible voices he produces are genuinely good and noble crossed over spirits.

Cheers,

Matt

[Michael Prescott]

"Now tell me why Thompson should respond to any of his critics?"

He doesn't have to, but given that his seances were originally proclaimed (by Mr. Zammit) to be "world-shattering" evidence that would change the paradigm and prove life after death, I'd say David Thompson has fallen well short of the mark.

And let's not forget that there is a long history of proven fraud in physical mediumship, so controls have to be as stringent as possible if the results are going to be seen as evidential.

If David Thompson is not interested in producing results for anyone except people who already believe, then he can just keep doing what he's doing. And apparently that's his intention. But then why do his supporters continue to insist that he's producing hard evidence? They can't have it both ways.

[Open Mind]

These sound good suggestions Michael.

Louis Armstrong played the trumpet, perfect for a trumpet circle. I wish Louie wasn't so shy about blowing his own trumpet, voluntary.

To be serious ... we should view Stemman's comment positively ... whether Thompson is genuine or not does not affect past, far more impressive seance cases ... it would be worse if some trickster possibly playing trumpety-trump trump, trump, trainers in the dark was just accepted without question ... for a successful trickster would be used by organized skepticism to imply all past cases were also fraudulent, yet these had much better controls. We don't need to call Thompson a fraud, one can simply ask for better controls before supporting a claim.

[Douglas]

Hi Matt, I think a couple of pics have been floating around for some time. You are not missing anything though.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

"I think the benefits outweighed the difficulties in my case, but not everyone would want to do everything that I did."

Sandy,

I apologise for giving you more advice on a subject which is really none of my business but I can't help butting in...

I think you should keep exploring your own abilities and publishing your experiences and findings on your web site.

I was educated as a scientist and worked as an engineer. In my epxerience I found that that each situation is unique. There is a time for anal retentive attention to controls and a time for exploration and playing around in the lab.

Since you are experimenting on yourself, I think you ought to press forward and try to learn as much as you can in a "quick and dirty" manner while also developing your psi skills.

It is obvious to many of us who are following your experineces that you understand the use of controls and are not a victom to self delusion or self deception.

The greater your proficiency with psi skills, the easier it will be to conduct conclusive experiments when the time is right. Keep developing your abilities.

Worrying about the critics, as you have learned, is a waste of time. When you get to a point that you think you have learned some principles that can be demonstrated scientifically and you want to convince other parapsychologists, that is the time for doing carefully controlled experiments. Right now I suggest you just "play around" until you discover a significant natural law. Simply proving a phenomenon with more certainty by adding more and more controls is not going to move the field forward. The phenomena is alread proved to everyone except to those sceptics suffering from a mass halucination.

[Open Mind]

Zerdini, I'd like to ask questions about another physical medium case of the past, nothing to do with Thompson, it goes way back to the 1930s, I need to speak to someone who has directly witnessed these types of phenomena in some light and they are not many today.

I don't want to put my e-mail address up here, nor would I recommend you do so ... I've had mails last year titled 'who are you' from an anonymous poster which I found rather intimidating and unpleasant.

Is there any forum I could join that also has a private mail section where I could join to post a few questions or pass you my e-mail address? Alternatively I post as 'Open Mind' on the 'skeptiko' forum (which has a private mail section) http://forum.mind-energy.net

[Zerdini]

@Open Mind

"Is there any forum I could join that also has a private mail section where I could join to post a few questions or pass you my e-mail address? "

Yes, try this forum which I visit regularly:

http://spiritualistchatroom.forumotion.com/

[Rudolf Smit]

Hmmmmm - perhaps we should give Thompson the benefit of the doubt. Just read this recent report:

http://www.box.net/shared/b455hv1a4d3cmzf5bdhn/1/39455802/878749220#/shared/b455hv1a4d3cmzf5bdhn/1/39455802/878749220/1

Rudolf Smit

[zerdini]

@Rudolf

There doesn't appear to be anything there except an advert for Box!

[Douglas]

Interesting account. Once again it shows that we need to get red light so answer things once and for all.

[zerdini]

@Rudolf

If, by any chance, you are referring to Fiona Bowie's article then her testimony is virtually worthless as she never saw anything nor does she understand what materialisation mediumship is.

[zerdini]

The comments on the site re the Thompson seance and Roy Stemman's criticism have now reached 71:

http://spiritofpn.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/david-thompson-seance-%e2%80%93-spirit-or-flesh/#comments

[Rudolf Smit]

@Zerdini - Yes, it was Fiona Bowie.
But I said, "perhaps" we should give him the benefit of the doubt. So I am just as uncertain as you about what is going on there. But until I have been to Thompson's session myself I suspend my judgement.

Anyway - I agree that sooner or later there should be red light so that one can truly see what is happening there.

Better still: infrared light including the option to make photographs under such conditions.

[zerdini]

@Rudolf

I have sat with David Thompson so I am not uncertain about what is going on there.

Because he will not sit in red light that is why I say he is not a materialisation medium.

Alec Harris had three red lights in his seance room so all could see exactly what was going on.

Neither did we have to go through all the unnecessary rigmarole that Thompson imposes.

[Rudolf Smit]

@Zerdini - okay, not for one moment I will doubt your observations and integrity.

However, I still do want to experience this whole ricmarole myself when Thompson performs in the Netherlands, next year.

Most definitely I will ask my passed away parents to come through. And if they do, they should speak to me in our native language, Dutch, simply when they were still alive their knowledge of English was minimal.

I know that in the past there have been excellent mediums who could do this. One woman in particular, I forgot her name, wasn't it Mrs Wriedt or something like that? No doubt you will be aware of her qualities.

[zerdini]

Like Leslie Flint she often joined in the conversation of the voices with the sitters.

She did not go into trance nor used a cabinet.

A friendly suggestion, don't give information about yourself or your family on here as it is read by Zammit, Thompson and co.

[Bucky]

A bit surprised it seems to simple and yet usfuel.

[Rudolf Smit]

A friendly suggestion, don't give information about yourself or your family on here as it is read by Zammit, Thompson and co.

Thanks, Zerdini! I keep that in mind!

[no one]

http://felixcircle.blogspot.com/

These physical mediums do use red light. Some great photos.

[Douglas]

Early days, but it could be some genuine materialisation mediumship at long last.

[Douglas]

Perhaps Zerdini coudl comment on some of these photos as he has personal experience of ectoplasm in red light. Does this look right to you?

[zerdini]

"Perhaps Zerdini coudl comment on some of these photos as he has personal experience of ectoplasm in red light. Does this look right to you?"

I have looked at the photos many times but it's difficult to make out anything at all!

It's nothing like a photo taken with an infra-red camera. Quite frankly, Douglas, photos of ectoplasm are totally meaningless to me.

[Rudolf Smit]

Yesterday David Thompson posted a response to Roy Stemman's scathing article. And I have to say that he [Thompson] seems to have some valid points to make:

http://circleofthesilvercord.net/?p=555&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CircleOfTheSilverCord+%28Circle+of+the+silver+cord%29

For the sake of fairness, one should read it.

[zerdini]

I have read it and it is full of holes.

It may be signed by Thompson but it has Zammit's style running through it!

[getit mobile app]

Yes uccessful cheat would be used by organized skepticism to involve all the above cases have been fraudulent, but these controls were much better thank you.
getit mobile app
mobile search app
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[Zerdini]

Roy Stemman has posted a detailed response to David Thompson's article which is well worth reading:

http://www.paranormalreview.com/articles/20110908/

[Michael Prescott]

Looks like at least one spambot got past the filter! (I'm looking at YOU, "getit mobile app.")

[Rudolf Smit]

Re Roy Stemman's response - this is a good exchange! I love that. Also read the second comment below his article.
Thanks for pointing me towards Stemman's blog.

[Zerdini]

Roy Stemman has posed the following questions on his website and on Spirit of PN to David Thompson:

I welcomed David Thompson’s response to my report on one of his seances and published it in full on my website, together with some corrections and comments that were necessary, as his responses misrepresent some of the observations I made. I asked that he published those corrections on his website. And I also posed the following seven questions, which I hoped he would answer:

1. Is it the goal of yourself or your spirit helpers to ultimately produce materialisations or other physical phenomena in a red light?

2. If so, when do you expect that to happen?

3. In the meantime, is it sensible to continue to demonstrate in total darkness, leaving some participants (as evidenced from responses to my Blog) unconvinced by the results?

4. Are your spirit helpers striving to provide more personal survival evidence in the future and less show business entertainment from the likes of Quentin Crisp and Louis Armstrong?

5. Can your main spirit helper, William, explain why the materialised Gordon Higginson was unaware that his good friend Heather Hatton had passed over to spirit a year earlier when he communicated in Australia?

6. Have your spirit helpers been asked about the introduction of night vision goggles or infra-red light to view and even film the materialised entities?

7. Instead of being tied up during a séance, would you agree to being tested by SPR researchers using simple weighing devices that would monitor not only your presence in a chair throughout the séance proceedings, but also the independent existence (by weight) of any spirits that materialised? Such a method would be totally unobtrusive as far as light is concerned, if total darkness continues to be a necessary condition of your mediumship.

I am sorry to report that David Thompson has refused to include my comments on his website, or to answer the questions posed.

[Zerdini]

David Thompson responded thus:

Dear Mr Stemman

You are quiet correct, I have chosen not to answer your questions, why should I? I am only answerable to the spirit world, not you or any other person.
I choose not to engage with you any longer to promote your website or your forthcoming ventures.
Please feel free along with your few cohorts to slap each other on the back and believe that you have made a contribution to a subject you only have limited knowledge about.

Along with your cohorts please hear this:

“I AM NOT IN THIS LIFE TO LIVE UP TO YOUR EXPECTATIONS OR TO MEET YOUR NEEDS”

Best Regards

David Thompson

[Zerdini]

You are quiet correct, I have chosen not to answer your questions, why should I?

To the above statement I replied:

"Because you are quite happy to take money from bereaved and vulnerable people who are seeking evidence of survival through your claimed ability as a materialisation medium which you freely admitted you are not."

[Douglas]

I accept the points made by both sides but I myself won't take any particular side in this. I take a neutral stance on the matter of David Thompson's mediumship until such time as verification is forthcoming.

Red light is the answer.

I accept that mediums have to develop their abilities in order to build up to working in red light so I look forward to such time as he is able to do so.

It is in David Thompson's interest to make this development his, and his circle's, top priority.

[Zerdini]

As long as people are willing to pay to attend his seances, Douglas, nothing will change.