I found this video by frequent commenter Sandy very impressive:

http://sandstonesquarry.blogspot.com/2011/08/lets-try-that-again.html

My first thought, upon seeing one of her pinwheel videos, was that static electricity might somehow be involved. But this simple test seems to rule it out. (As you can see from the post that immediately precedes the linked post, the bits of styrofoam are placed inside and around the jar in order to show if static electricity is a factor.)

Comments

[Tony Bowmaker]

i dont want to go around de bunking

The Gold spinner could have iron filings on it - then even a fragment of magnetic material on her fingers - that would be enough to fake it

[Tony Bowmaker]

BTW there's a difference between static charge and magnetic field - so the bits of polstyerene wont budge with a magnetic field

[Zerdini]

Excellent video, Sandy. Well done.

[Sandy]

Thanks, Zerdini.

I've done videos with a stong magnet sitting beside the wheel just to show that the wheel isn't affected by a magnet. Anything tiny attached underneath the wheel would be screwed up by a strong magnet placed in proximity. I did that for researchers, but I might get around to posting one like it on my blog.

Say what you will about me and my video, I've been willing to go into a lab and be tested. Not to prove I'm for real. I want to understand what's going on.

[Michael Duggan]

You know, as entertaining as these home videos are, they don't go anywhere it terms of moving the debate forward. There's always going to be alternative explanations. Sandy, if you had some footage of your work with Persinger, now that would be a good starting point for a meaty discussion!

[Sandy]

Michael Duggan, Most of what goes on in the lab doesn't look very exciting. I did a lot with a photomultiplier tube, but I was sitting in a completely dark room at the time. It wouldn't make for exciting footage.

Then there were the environmental sensitivity tests that made me sick to my stomach...

[Tony]

your finger tips emit heat (infra red photons)
if the jar was plastic this might get through the jar - and cause thermel agitation inside -moving the wheel - or even act as a Radiometer !!

[Sandy]

Good explanation, Tony! Can you can post a video showing that effect? My fingers shouldn't emit any more heat than anyone else's, so you should be able to produce the same effect.

[Doug D]

Good answer, Sandy.

I've worked/played with PK wheels in plastic jars for years, and I've never been able to get an effect as powerful and long-lasting as yours.

Regarding heat convection as a source of movement, I've wrapped my warm hands around jars for many minutes at a time with only the slightest effect. It wasn't until I nuked a hot/cold gel pack in the microwave and placed it under the jar that I finally got considerable movement out of a wheel. But then it spun around frantically, first one way, then the other, with the sides spasmodically bouncing up and down. The wheel's movements slowed rapidly as the gel pack went from very hot to very warm, and died altogether not long afterward.

I've also tapped the surface on which jars sat, as well as the jars themselves, to see if I could get the wheels to turn. They did, but I could never get them to make a full turn before spinning back the other way, and more often than not they just bounced around.

I've held the bottoms of jars with my thumbs and first two fingers (with the sides of my hands resting on a hard surface) to see if the ideomotor effect could induce the wheels to spin. This turns out to be a very stable way to hold a jar, so I observed no appreciable ideomotor effect.

Despite these and other failed attempts to get PK wheels to spin through normal means, I've had what I believe are a precious few successes using my mind alone. But these are pathetic compared to what you seem able to accomplish. I'm in awe of your ability to maintain that special state of mind after your wheel starts moving.

[Tony]

Sandy - from the videos point you could simply be rubbing your finger on the jar at some point - giving it a static charge - but only local so its not making the polysterene bits jump about.
I'm not trying to discredit what your doing though !!
does it work over a distance - or rather could you try this ?

[Sandy]

It sometimes works over a distance, but it isn't reliable enough an effect that way. I've had it work across the room. The last time that happened, my husband accidentally dropped something in another part of the house that crashed very loudly and frightened me. The wheel was set up inside the jar on the coffee table across the room from where I was sitting and it started spinning very fast. As I calmed down, so did the wheel, until it finally stopped.

[Matt Rouge]

That is awesome! I'm going to try doing this myself.

Have you ever been able to move larger, heavier objects, such as getting a marble to roll across a table, etc.?

[Rudolf Smit]

I have watched the video and find it absolutely fascinating!

One thing I would like to know: have you asked -- by way of control -- another person to do the same thing?

If other persons cannot do the same trick, and given the controls you have set up yourself, then for me it is a clear indication that telekenesis is at work.

[Tony]

Thanks for that - i think i will make one and have a go! is it made out of foil on a needle ?

[Sandy]

Matt, on occasion I've been able to move candies across the table on purpose. (I play a game where I eat the candies that move for me.)

Sometimes if I take the wheel off the needle and just place it on the table I can get it to move around a bit. Those things aren't very common or reliable. I only have the wheel jumping up a tiny bit off a surface on video once. The other things have never been caught on video.

I've had incidents where I've reached for something, a pen or in one case a bag of cookies, and it's moved towards my hand. But those weren't on purpose. They just sort of happened.

[Sandy]

Rudolf, I've gotten other people to spin the wheel without the jar, but they can't do it with the jar there. So no one else has moved my particular setup.

However, someone I know who has been practising the same thing has reported finally getting some movement from her wheel. I haven't seen her do this yet (we don't live in the same area), but she started having some luck with it right after I finally started getting the wheel spinning on video and shared those with her.

[Sandy]

Tony, yes it is just Al foil balanced on the pointy end of a sewing needle. The base is an eraser. The jar is a plastic peanut butter jar.

[RabbitDawg]

I'm inclined to believe that the video shows an actual psi effect, and here's why:

I've read Sandy's comments on wide variety of subjects here, on her blog, and over at Skeptiko. Whether you agree or disagree with her comments and opinions, it's pretty obvious that she isn't stupid, nor is she a charlatan.

Now, Sandy is also an internet savvy grown-up who knows good and well that when you put a video online, it immediately becomes wide open to scrutiny, or as my Mamma used to say, "It's out there for God and everybody to see".

She's already thought it through and parsed out the variables so that she won't be seen as deluding herself in a video that could potentially go viral in front of an audience with a literal world-wide reach. So... I can only conclude that what I see is what it is. Raw, pure telekinesis.

[Matt Rouge]

+1 RabbitDawg.

[Rudolf Smit]

I second that, Matt & RabbitDawg

[Sandy]

I think this needs to be tested in a lab to know what's actually going on. It's a neat effect. But I can't be sure what's really happening. There is no such thing as a PK meter. I know I'm not cheating. But that's all I know.

It could very well be a normal force acting in an unexpected way. Admittedly, my emotions seem to play a role in how well this works, or doesn't work. The data I've collected also shows a correlation to geomagnetic activity. And I'm getting better with practise. But figuring out anything more than that requires going beyond a simple at-home experiment.

So don't get too excited guys. This isn't anything earth-shattering or paradigm-changing. It's just a video.

[Matt Rouge]

Well, I'm sure you guys have heard the story of the 4-minute mile. Thought to be impossible. One guy shows that it's possible, and then suddenly people all over the world can do it. And now, of course, you're not a real sprinter if you *can't* do it.

I think PK and psi in general are going to be like that. Sandy is not the first to be able to do this, she's probably not the first to have made videos like this. But people are going to see this and other videos, and suddenly you're going to have people all over the world doing PK, and you'll soon have televised wheel-spinning competitions and whatnot. And guess what? The skeptics won't be able to do anything about that.

And that really *will* be paradigm-changing.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

There were a lot of people bending spoons with pk when uri geller did it on tv. But after a while people stopped doing it and now it is somewhat of a lost art.

[Ben]

"and suddenly you're going to have people all over the world doing PK, and you'll soon have televised wheel-spinning competitions and whatnot." - Matt

That's a brilliant idea! You should submit a treatment to a TV channel. They'll advertise for others who can do it...the series will be made...the ratings will be high..and you will be a millionaire, as will the winning psychokineticists, what with all the spinoffs and interviews...

[Bruce Siegel]

Rabbitdawg said:

"So... I can only conclude that what I see is what it is. Raw, pure telekinesis."

Hey, RabbitDawg! Welcome back. Nice to see you roaming this neighborhood again.

It's been hard work since you've been gone. I've actually had to write up all my opinions myself, instead of sitting back and watching you post them for me.

Taking off as you did was uncalled for. But I forgive you. And to prove it, I'm going to pay you a compliment.

It's so nice when anyone's willing to to take a stand as confidently as you just did. Especially when it comes to something as bizarre as a lady spinning a pinwheel with the power of her mind. (Hey Sandy--sorry to make you sound like a stranger who just came in off the street. But bear with me as I make this point.) :o)

As Matt likes to point out, it's easier to just say no to these things, or better yet, to just ignore them. You don't run the risk of being rudely embarrassed down the road.

Of, course, you also lose the opportunity to feel brave and independent.

So that brings us to what *I* think. (Though I've been trying hard to delay this moment.)

Let me say it this way: I don't spend my spare hours mining Susan Blackmore's writing for nuggets of wisdom. But I can't help remember what she wrote in her autobiography. She was describing a critical moment in her developing attitude towards whether or not psi is real. And it was something *very* roughly like this:

"I don't know! I don't know! I just don't know! What a relief it was to stop pretending that I had to have the answer."

Well, somewhere along the line, Susan's viewpoint seems to me to have hardened a bit.

But from my perspective, as I look at Sandy's video, her statement works. You see, here's the thing.

As impressive as the clip is, especially with its sudden stopping and changing of directions, I can't forget what it would mean if it truly is an exhibition of pk. (And though some say she's touching the glass, I don't think so, based on where her hand is when it moves outwards on the left side. And also--I think she'd tell us if she were touching it. And even if she *were* rubbing the glass, how would that explain those well-defined moves?)

So here's what it would mean if that video were a genuine display of pk. For me, after twenty years of enthusiastic study and searching, it would be the first *recorded* (video or audio) instance of psi of which I've ever been convinced.

Much less, the first (more or less) *repeatable* one.

That's big!

So once again, allow me to state boldly and unequivocally where I now stand: I don't know! I don't know! I just don't know!

There. What a relief.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

"And that really *will* be paradigm-changing."

You are dreaming. A hundred years a go people were levatating tables and materializing spirits. Look how far that went.

People incarnate on the earth plane for all sorts of reasons. I think it is likely that some of those purposes would not be achievable if the TRUTH could not be ignored. For reasons similar to those that explain why you can't remember what you did before you were born, some people will never accept the truth of psi and the afterlife. I don't see any other explanation for the mass hallucination that is modern scepticism.

[Matt Rouge]

jshgfcre98ijyds,

It took a long time for information about NDEs to come out and be respected, but it has happened. Change is possible. Plus, PK is a hobby that people can have fun with. Impress your friends! right?

It's gonna happen.

Cheers,

Matt

[Michael Duggan]

Sandy, I hope my earlier comment didn't come across as disparaging. I find these videos fascinating but as an experimentalist myself, it's all about control for me. Have you considered purchasing a RNG from Psyleron (http://www.psyleron.com/) and testing your PK ability on the statistical behaviour of these machines? Overtime, you could come up with some highly convincing evidence.

[doubter]

The wheel is such a lightweight low friction system that extremely small electrostatic or magnetic forces generated by a person's nervous system could presumably create the effects. One way to rule this out and show it is pure PK would be to put the wheel (along with a video camera) in a Faraday cage. Short of that, demonstrating the effect at considerable distances would probably suffice. Or how about putting high sensitivity EM field meters near the wheel? Unless measures of this sort are carried out there must remain the suspicion that the effect is electromagnetic and created by the trained nervous system of the "sender".

[Paul]

How far away can you influence it sandy?

[Sandy]

I don't have any budget for research. I'm a grad student who suddenly found herself with no funding and no supervisor (in other words, I'm screwed). There are all sorts of lovely things I would like to experiment on, but it pretty much has to be extremely low cost. So peanut butter jars, tin foil and a very cheap webcam are what I'm up for right now.

I have gone to Laurentian for some testing, but that tends to be focused on the neuroscience stuff. So I spend a lot of time hooked up to machines in dark shielded rooms. Although they did do some tests involving a photomultiplier tube that went well.

At this point, it is up to others to test these things out. I just don't have the resources.

[RabbitDawg]

Bruce Siegel said: "Hey, RabbitDawg! Welcome back. Nice to see you roaming this neighborhood again."
Also, "And though some say she's touching the glass, I don't think so, based on where her hand is when it moves outwards on the left side."

Thanks Bruce, ever since I made those disparaging comments about the Government over at Skeptiko, I've been laying low and watching my back. :-)

Touching the glass was my only reservation, and when I asked her about it over at Skeptiko, she pointed out that when she accidentally touches the glass, it "Bounces all over the place."

And Sandy, your theories about Geomagnetic forces, etc... as explanation's is an admirable effort. It lends credibility to your research. But then - think about it - you've moved beyond the stage of trying to prove that the psi effect is real, now you're trying to figure out exactly what it is. That's where science should be at right now, anyway.

[Sandy]

That's a lovely thought, RabbitDawg. I wish I could figure out what it is. But the last couple of days I've been overwhelmed with possibilities offered by a huge spectrum of people. My lack of resources to properly investigate anything is glaringly obvious.

I think I have done some good work with this. I have a better understanding of the emotional factors connected to my experiences because I fill out a standard PANAS mood score prior to each run of my experiment. I've kept good records and shared those with researchers. But I don't know if I'll be able to do much more than what I've done.

It would be nice to do my own work and explore the possibilities. It's frustrating to not have that ability. I just have to hope others can take things from here.

[Sandy]

Sorry Paul, I missed your comment. I don't know how far away it would be possible. I'm used to being in close proximity, but I know other anomalous movements of objects in this house don't have to be all that close. They certainly occur in other rooms. I've seen the wheel spin at least a meter away, but that's been a rare occurrence and it hasn't been recorded on video. At this point in time, the only way I can reliably do this is in close proximity.

[Matt Rouge]

doubter,

You wrote,

The wheel is such a lightweight low friction system that extremely small electrostatic or magnetic forces generated by a person's nervous system could presumably create the effects.

This is how skeptics put themselves on the horns of a dilemma without realizing or perhaps without wanting to realize it. (This isn't about you personally--I don't know what your perspective is.)

Someone managing small electrostatic or magnetic forces so as to turn the wheel with excellent control would IN ITSELF be a paradigm-changing discovery. But the skeptical attitude would be, "Yeah, but that's not real PK, so just, um, forget about it."

For all we know, macro PK *is* the management of such forces to create such effects. That would not make it any less amazing. Ultimately, nothing is truly "paranormal," anyway, but operates according to some sort of rules.

Cheers,

Matt

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

"It took a long time for information about NDEs to come out and be respected, but it has happened. "

Respected by who? In what sense? What does the the national institute of health, the american association for the advancedment of science, or the national academy of science say about NDE's?

Those seances I was referring to were not secret. In those days many, many with ouija boards published books giving evidence of veridical spirit communication.

Spiritualists have been proving psi and the afterlife every Sunday at their church services for a century. Any open minded person could go to one to get proof for himself.

Uri Geller was on TV. Some viewers had spoons bend spontaneously in their homes. Ordinary people have been having paranormal experiences and have had knowledge of psi and the afterlife from direct experience through out the ages.

The scientific evidence has been overwhelming since before 1922 when Richet published his book. But what effect did it have on mainstream science or the skeptical community or society at large?

You think a few whirligigs will make a difference?

What is different today? If you think something is different today, I think you are ignorant of history. That is one reason I think it is important that people study the history of psychical research.

To me it is similar to the situation with ufo's - full government disclosure has been imminent ... for over 50 years.

Wait sitting down.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

Off topic but I think an interesting point...

The "Arab Spring" we are seeing these days, where it looks like Kafaffi is about to be deposed and Syria seems to be next was sparked by a suicide of a Tunisian vendor who's wares were confiscated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Bouazizi

That suicide has had incalculable consequences - probably beneficial for millions of people. Yet suicide is usually said to have no good consequences. Is it possible that this is a suicide that will be honored in the afterlife?

[Matt Rouge]

jshgfcre98ijyds,

Your points are taken. I think the reason for resistance is the West is pretty obvious. Psi and the version of the Afterlife we glimpse via NDEs do not fit the worldviews of either modern Christians or atheists.

Recognition of these things requires a completely new worldview. There is still a lot of resistance, but there are a lot more people today who are *not* resistant than there were 100 years ago (I would surmise). People like me who self-identify as New Age have already integrated these things into their worldview.

We are close to a critical mass where there are enough people open to the phenomena and enough people who have experienced them directly or indirectly so as to make it "OK" to believe in them.

I think we are close to that point now.

Cheers,

Matt

[Zerdini]

Spiritualists have been proving psi and the afterlife every Sunday at their church services for a century. Any open minded person could go to one to get proof for himself.

Not so. Unfortuately it is very rare these days.

[Zerdini]

Yet suicide is usually said to have no good consequences.

As Silver Birch pointed out 'motive is the overriding factor'.

Every individual has to face the consequences of his/her actions.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

"Not so. Unfortuately it is very rare these days."

It is rare in the sense that there are not many Spiritualist churches compared to other religions, but to be clear I was speaking from my own experience with Spiritualism in the US.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

"I was speaking from my own experience with Spiritualism in the US."

Readers can believe whom they choose, or better yet try attending a Spiritualist church for themselves.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

We puny humans have a very infantile sense of right and wrong. The same Elohim that created the afterlife many of us long to return to and who sent Jesus to show love and forgiveness as the way, also sent the inquisition, WWI WWII the holocaust, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. And a host of other horros too numerous to list throughout the history of mankind and nature. We call them horrors, but they had a purpose beyond our ken.

Those entities that have the power to shape history could just as easily have made the TRUTH universally accepted by humankind at any time in the past. They can do it today or any time in the future. They will or won't according to their own designs for the earth school and human kind.

Every generation thinks it is unique in history, but future generations look back and see the same patterns repeating over and over just like a whirligig spinning and spinning.

[Douglas]

Well done Sandy!

I'm very tempted to give this a go myself. Does the wheel have to be tin foil or can it be paper or any other material?

I do try to keep aware of skeptical explanations but the fact that you have attested to remote movements of the wheel(and other objects) suggests to be that a simple static or thermal explanation doesnt really cut it.

Even if we did work on the assumption of static or thermal explanations, I really don't see how this would effect the wheel through a glass jar? Not to the extend shown on the video - that demonstrates a high degree of control.

Douglas

[Zerdini]

It is rare in the sense that there are not many Spiritualist churches compared to other religions, but to be clear I was speaking from my own experience with Spiritualism in the US.

I can't argue with that. One can only speak from personal experience.

[Zerdini]

Even if we did work on the assumption of static or thermal explanations, I really don't see how this would effect the wheel through a glass jar?

Sandy wrote:"The jar is a plastic peanut butter jar."

[Douglas]

ah ok, thanks for the clarification Zerdini. I still don't see how it would be possible to affect the needle to this extent via standard thermal or static explanations.

Perhaps Sandy could let us know if she has used glass jars in the past? I't just that I have plenty glass jars in the house, but no plastic ones!

[Cody]

If I remember correctly, plastic is an insulator isn't it? If it is, wouldn't that make it impossible for the static electricity to travel through it and affect the pin wheel?

[Sandy]

Douglas, I've used both paper and foil, but my understanding is that foil is less affected by electrostatics.

Someone sent me this video where they experimented with static electricity by rubbing styrofoam blocks together to move a wheel through a glass jar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbm9mLn3XsE

I appreciate this fellow's efforts to explain what's going on in my videos. But it just doesn't fit what I'm observing. The guy who made the video claims that because he didn't move the foam bits at the bottom, that they don't control for static, so he thinks I'm using static to move the wheel. It should be noted that he keeps well away from those bits of foam with his block when moving the wheel, but when he does move the block close to them, it picks them up.

I tried the styrofoam block technique for myself. It didn't work very well, probably because of the high humidity levels this area is experiencing. I couldn't move either a paper or foil wheel through the plastic jar that way, but I could move the paper wheel a tiny bit through a glass jar. But even after the charge in the block was too weak to move the wheel anymore (it didn't last long), I could STILL use it to pick up little bits of foam.

So my hand should stick to those little bits of foam in my video, given the proximity (I was using my hand to drop them around the wheel, and they didn't stick to me at all.)

I also tried moving the wheel and then sticking my hand into a bunch of those little foam bits. They didn't stick to me at all.

It takes LESS of a charge to pick up foam bits than it does to move the wheel through glass. And the foam bits don't stick to my hands at all before I move the wheel, when I'm moving the wheel or after I stop.

I also found that if I rubbed a dryer sheet on the jar and styrofoam block (to cut any static charge), that I couldn't use it to move the wheel at all after that. But I had no trouble just moving the wheel the way I normally do after using a dryer sheet on my hands and the jar.

The static explanation doesn't seem to fit.

If it did, I have no idea how I could maintain that kind of a charge. I've sat in front of the TV and spun the wheel throughout an entire episode of Dr Who. The guy with the sytrofoam blocks in that video had to constantly keep recharging them. And he didn't get the wheel spinning nicely either.

I have to say, I expected more of this video. The guy was convinced he was replicating what I do rather well, but it just doesn't work when you look at things closely. Nice try though!

[Sandy]

Douglas, I've used glass jars, but they are harder to see through than plastic. Plus the plastic is lighter and easier to carry around with me to try this in different places.

I'm actually trying to get this working with a glass jar again, just for comparison to the plastic. Unfortunately, I find every new jar is a new challenge, just like starting out with a new wheel is. It's like familiarity with an object helps a great deal. I've tried identical peanut butter jars, and one will work, and one won't, so it doesn't have to do with the jar's composition. It's just a matter of playing around until you find a jar that you like. So right now, I'm looking for a glass jar that I like as much as my plastic jars. I did have a bit of luck with one glass jar I tried this week, but the patterning on the side makes it hard to video any movement through.

[Douglas]

Thanks for the reply Sandy. I see the guy also comments that you could replicate the static effect by 'shuffling along the carpet' beforehand to achieve a similar effect'.

Of course, he didnt do this himself, it's just an opinion.

As you say, you've already shown that your fingers were not holding a static charge as they do not stick to the bits of stylofoam, plus the dryer sheet seems to rule out static also.

Unfortunately, as is all too typical with skeptical explanations, the skeptic will not take up your conflicting evidence. They will just glance over the initial explanation and it's 'case closed' as far as they are concerned!
And I emphasise *glance over* - sadly).

[Sandy]

They come up with some pretty amusing controls. One guy wants me blindfolded. Another wants me in gloves. I have this image of myself blindfolded and wearing oven mitts trying unsuccessfully to do lots of things I'm normally good at such as driving a car, playing drums, video games, drawing, knitting, reading books, wasting time on the internet...

[Barbara]

"And I emphasise *glance over* - sadly)."

("Nothing to see here")

[dmduncan]

"So right now, I'm looking for a glass jar that I like as much as my plastic jars. I did have a bit of luck with one glass jar I tried this week, but the patterning on the side makes it hard to video any movement through."

I recommend Gia Russa spaghetti sauce for the jar. Clear jar, no markings, and the Hot Sicilian is delicious.

[Sandy]

Thanks, dm, I'll have to look for that brand. :)

[Matt Rouge]

Sandy,

Here's a question I haven't seen you answer yet.

What does it *feel* like to move the wheel? Are you just intending, and it just happens? Do you feel like you're manipulating a force (the Force!)? And so on.

I'm very curious, especially since I do want to try this myself!

Cheers,

Matt

[Sandy]

I don't know if you've ever played this game, but have you ever touched someone with out making contact? Each person puts their hands close to the other person so they can feel them without quite touching them? It feels like that.

[Matt Rouge]

No, I haven't played that game. So it feels as if you are touching the wheel in your imagination?

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

"Each person puts their hands close to the other person so they can feel them without quite touching them?"

If you place your own two hands with your palms facing each other an inch or two apart you can feel something. This is one exercise we did in a spiritual healing class in a spiritualist church. I assume it's the same thing Sandy is writing about. It is interesting that she feels this when doing pk.

I always thought there was a materialist explanation for it - like thermal radiation or suggestion and maybe there is and it is possible that something known to science is actually responsible in an unusual way that causes pk and healing. But my observation is that mystical experiences aren't mystical after you experience them. A feeling is a feeling - to the mind there isn't a good way to know if a feeling is a spiritual force or a physical force.

[Sandy]

For me it's when I touch where a person's lights sit above their skin. I know not everyone can see where that is, but I think everyone can feel something without actually reaching where the skin is. We're bigger than our skins. It's too bad you never played that game. It is fun.;)

[Matt Rouge]

I've played other fun games.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

Sandy,

Could you post a drawing of the lights you see?

Thanks,

[Sandy]

jshg, I tried what you mentioned with the hands. That sort of works too. Except you have to be more open when you do it with another person, to kind of feel where they are. You also have to feel where the wheel is, because it is bigger than itself too.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

Oh, I was going to ask you if you thought you were feeling the wheel or if you were feeling something coming from your hand.

Also, can you describe how you do it? Do you "will" the wheel to turn, or imagine it turning, or imagine force from your hands moving the wheel?

Have you learned how to do it ... in the sense that you now do something more consciously or easily than at first? If so what is it that you have learned to do?

Thanks,

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

"So don't get too excited guys. This isn't anything earth-shattering or paradigm-changing. It's just a video."

Are you sure?

I felt my bed shaking this afternoon and wondered if I was leaking pk from working on a psi wheel. I thought maybe I should give it up.

Then I realized it could be an earthquake and checked the news. But I'm not sure that the fact that it was an earthquake and not just my bed makes me feel better or worse.

"But people are going to see this and other videos, and suddenly you're going to have people all over the world doing PK, and you'll soon have televised wheel-spinning competitions and whatnot. And guess what? The skeptics won't be able to do anything about that.

If they survive.

[Sandy]

Very funny. I've been sick in bed all day and woke up because of the earthquake too. My hubby is right where it hit hardest. I heard they evacuated the building where he was working today. I know it wasn't a bad earthquake, but I still wish he'd phone home.

[jshgfcre98ijyds]

"I felt my bed shaking this afternoon and wondered if I was leaking pk from working on a psi wheel. I thought maybe I should give it up."

"Very funny."

Well, I forgot to mention that I had an old pk wheel and jar sitting on the back of a table piled with junk. When I went to hunt up the pk wheel that morning, as I reached for it I knocked the wheel part of it off the back of the table. When I crawled under the table to retrieve it I banged my head. At the time I wondered if "someone" was trying to tell me something about the wisdom of trying to develop pk. Later in the day when the shaking started, it only increased my concern. In the past I've been so thick headed as to ignore "signs" such as wrecking my car (no injury, or nde, or other vehicles involved) and later come to doubt the wisdom of ignoring it, I tend to be a bit superstitious.

[tony]

Sandy - wheres the earthquake been happening ?

maybe you might be a poltergeist focus - a mild one ?!

[Sandy]

Don't blame me for all these things!

http://earthquakes.tafoni.net/

[Sandy]

The sort of feedback I've gotten on those videos is so strange. I don't expect a video to actually change anyone's mind about pk or psi. They are just videos. But some of the skeptical responses are hard to understand.

People seem to have this idea that I can just turn this off and on at will like a light switch. I've never claimed to be able to do that. Sometimes things work very well when I try them. Other times they don't. I've been keeping track of how well things work or don't work in an attempt to understand this better.

There are people who tell me that the photomultiplier tube work that I've participated with in a controlled lab setting is useless because unless they see something levitate, there is no such thing as pk. Measurements taken by machines can't substitute for something more entertaining, I suppose. I guess electricity didn't exist prior to TV and video games for someone of that particular mindset.

It seems like the evidence doesn't matter at all. The stuff labs do isn't interesting enough for skeptics probably because it's easier to poke holes in uncontrolled home movies.

I've experienced a lot of how skeptics work this past week. A few will send threatening anonymous emails. I guess it's an effective way to make proponents back down and sensitives retreat. Some will make requests for changes in the setup. Of course no matter how many changes you make, they won't be happy until the phenomenon is fully suppressed. Let's face it, there are no perfect experiments, and skeptics know that. (It's probably why they do so little of their own research). When you get tired of playing that game with them, then they can say you just can't fake your way through their "controls", no matter how silly some of them are.

What the skeptics don't do is try to encourage experimentation with the phenomenon to reveal it and understand it better. I knew that my original experiment with the wheel that didn't use a jar couldn't control for convection or air currents, but those things don't preclude other effects. And by studying how that worked I was able to eventually move the wheel into a sealed jar and study that.

It's only been a few months since I started getting the wheel moving in the jar reliably enough to consider. There are still days when it doesn't work for me at all. I suspect that if I do keep going with it, I'll get better and more controls will be possible. But this last week was a bit of a setback. I found it very discouraging to find out that nothing will ever be enough to convince skeptics. The lab work isn't exciting enough and other things are not controlled enough for them. They don't even seem content to just let me enjoy my own silly experiments. It seems important to them that I see the error of my ways and put a stop to such a waste of time.

I'm guessing that for most people it takes a personal experience of psi to make a difference. No amount of research will change things for them.

So it's been an interesting week learning about how skeptics think. It's not one I'd like to repeat anytime soon though.

[Matt Rouge]

Sandy,

Sending good vibes to you.

Yes, I have harsh words for these people that I have expressed on this blog before but will refrain from expressing now.

You are in company when it comes to frustration with skeptics. You just have to ignore them, as they are a deep source of negativity. They are not happy people.

Blessings,

Matt

[Ben]

"You just have to ignore them, as they are a deep source of negativity. They are not happy people."

Yes indeed. And they want to make others even more unhappy than they are. This, I'm convinced, is their true motivation. It's the only satisfaction they can find in life. Sad.

[J9]

I think that just by following Sandy's comments here and reading her blog, I can't doubt her sincerity. I mean, if being a thoughtful, level headed, educated contributor to this blog and her own thoughtfully written blog is some sort of elaborate plan to get us to buy into psi... it seems kind of unlikely that someone would go through that trouble. Anyway, I think Sandy's character shines through on it's own, and I give her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm just not a true skeptic.

[Sandy]

Thanks J9, Ben and Matt.

I don't begrudge people their beliefs about psi/pk. And I completely understand the need to test things out. I think it's just the attitude that instead of testing what pk is, skeptics want me to test what they think it should be. And even if I jump through the hoops, they get to fall back on the "well it's just a home movie" stance, which is essentially correct. But if I get tested in a lab, then they complain that they want to see something for themselves (like a convincing home movie, I guess). It's a catch-22.

I know nothing I do or experience is going to change this world. It won't change people's attitudes either. All I can change is me.

[Michael Prescott]

In fairness to skeptics, I would imagine that only the most obnoxious ones would harass you with emails or negative blog comments. I'm sure there are many skeptics who would simply shrug at the video, assume there must be some "normal" explanation, and then go on about their business. The ones who choose to annoy you are a self-selected sample, not (probably) a representative sample of the group as a whole.

Some of the harassers may also be very young. The anonymity of the Internet can encourage teenagers to do their worst.

[86tlgvlityd86uiyd]

" But this last week was a bit of a setback. I found it very discouraging to find out that nothing will ever be enough to convince skeptics. "

Sandy,

I understand this would be discouraging but it is not a setback. It is a step forward. Learning something true is always a step forward.

[Douglas]

Sandy: I hope the negative comments don't put you off sharing your experiences and research with us. Many of us here value your experiences and we would love you to keep us updated!

Michael also said: 'Some of the harassers may also be very young. The anonymity of the Internet can encourage teenagers to do their worst.'

I agree. From following several skeptic blogs and sites, I have noticed that many skeptics are young, usually in their teens or twenties and many are quite obnoxious in their responses. They seem to fall into a category of 'Skeptic Groupies' who seem to hang off the word of various 'celebrities' of the skeptical world.

I was at skeptic crusader PZ Myers' site, Pharyngula, and some of the comments in the discussion forums there are absolutely obnoxious. Myers goes on at length about removing what he refers to as 'creationist trolls', but is quite happy to leave comments which are essentially teenage rants at 'suckers' and 'believers', often in the most offensive language.

One of the reasons I came to this blog is the mature nature of the various discussions. I'm 36 by the way. I know a lot of younger people who are also very articulate and thoughtful, so I'm not trying to diss any particular age group per say. But the Skeptical camp does tend to attract the worst elements of a certain subset of young people who are tripping out on their sense of angst at discovering atheism for the first time and the freedom this gives them to say what they like to anybody.

[Sandy]

I've actually gotten complaints from a skeptic in regards to a comment I allowed on my blog that was fairly anti-skeptic, so I know that it's easier to allow comments that are negative if the negativity is aimed at others. Perhaps I shouldn't have allowed that comment, but it came from someone who regularly comments on my blog.

I think that particular skeptic was trying to be fair minded, but he also took a patronizing attitude towards me. I'm sure he didn't see it that way. But he was pushing me to jump through hoops, and in the end I resented that. Particularly because I know that jumping through one hoop is never enough.

I think it's this idea that if THEY were able to do PK, this is how THEY would prove it that kind of bugs me. Like I'm supposed to do whatever they say because they are somehow more scientific than I am. Not that they have any education or background in science. (I have an MSc, and hope someday to sort things out and finish the doctorate). They think that they are more scientific just because they don't believe in PK and I do. And somehow that gives them the right to be in charge. It's patronizing and it pisses me off.

I actually found working with well-qualified researchers to be a very different kind of experience. I felt like a participant, not a lab rat. I was asked for my opinions as to how to proceed with things in some cases. There were some things I couldn't be told (like what to expect in certain tests, or even what was being tested for), but I understood going in that some work has to be done that way. I never felt like I was jumping through hoops. It was more about finding out what worked.

[Michael Duggan]

Sandy, any news on your next visit to Laurentian and if / when your work will be published? Did you work with RNG's as well as a photomultiplier set-up? Have you tried bio-PK work, for example, increasing germination rates?
Thanks again.

[Ben]

Another thought for the future, Sandy. I've been reading "The Secret Life of Plants", and would be interested to see if a plant's "primary perception" would be able to interact in any way with your special abilities.

Using a polygraph, Clee Backster noticed that plants could respond to intent before an action, but quarrelled with the term "ESP", because plants don't even have "SP" - no nervous system or senses as we understand them. He suggested that there may be a "primary perception" which is actually filtered out by our 5 senses.

So perhaps plants may provide a sensitive register for your extrasensory abilities?

[Sandy]

Michael Duggan, I have been asked to go back, but no dates have been set yet. I wasn't available earlier in the summer when I was first asked to go. Now I think we are looking at October.

I know work had been submitted for publication, but I have no idea on it's status. I did one RNG experiment last time I was there, but it was one where I had to guess numbers, not influence an RNG. (I actually didn't find that one very interesting, so I don't think it was particularly successful, but I never saw those results.) I've never tried bio-pk work.

Ben, how would you propose to find out if plants pick up on people like me?

[Zerdini]

Cleve Backster's own book "Primary Perception was published in 2003.

[Ben]

"how would you propose to find out if plants pick up on people like me?"

Not sure! For a start, wire them up to a polygraph when you're doing your stuff and see what happens. Perhaps include a houseplant you like and one you've never seen before as a control. You could try sending them love and nasty thoughts too.

If you're interested, you could read the book Zerdini mentioned first.

[Sandy]

I don't currently have any houseplants. I used to have a great collection of plants, but we move around too much. Someday I would like to have a home full of plants and pets again.

[Sandy]

I just got my first video of the wheel moving in a glass jar instead of the usual plastic one. It's not a video I'm going to post because I'm in the frame (and I look terrible because I'm sick.) But I guess the jar composition doesn't make a difference after all. (Glass is a better electrical insulator than plastic.)

[Douglas]

Well done Sandy. I want to try this too, although i give up to easily.

Regarding the experiments with plants, i remember Lyal Watson's book, supernature, from the '70s, this talked about those experiments at some length, although I never fonud out what happened since then.

[zerdini]

"The Secret Life of Plants", by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird was originally published in 1973 and referred to the work of polygraph expert, Cleve Backster but it wasn't until 2003 that the latter published his own book.

[Sandy]

Zerdini, is anyone still doing this kind of work with plants?

[zerdini]

Not to my knowledge, Sandy, but it is no longer of interest to me.

[Sandy]

BTW, someone gave me an orchid today! Now I have a plant!

[Ben]

Brilliant timing!

(BTW, orchids love classical music. Ours stayed in flower for nearly a year next to the BOSE, and then after a short break, produced new buds.)

[Sandy]

Oh dear! I tend to listen to punk...

[no one]

I have been incredibly busy lately and haven't had time to do my usual on-line reading/blogging, but I did want to chime in while you're still here and say that I am very impressed. Nice work! And Thank you.

Any thoughts of going after the Randi challenge?

[Sandy]

no one!!!! Is that really you or have aliens taken over your computer? No, I'm not interested in the MDC. But I do appreciate that you like my videos, so thanks.

Don't you realise that the in the MDC, when someone makes a claim about being able to do one particular thing, to win the challenge Randi insists you do something different instead? The MDC does a disservice to science. It's one more case of getting people to jump through endless hoops only to have the out of saying that a one time demonstration can't prove anything, which is in fact correct. Besides, my privacy is worth a lot more than a million dollars.

[sbu]

Just watched the last video on your website - quite exciting. Could you make both wheels spin at the same time in opposite direction? Thank you for sharing this Sandy, makes even a hardcore sceptic weak in the knees :)

[Sandy]

I've never tried that. I might be able to do it using both hands. It does complicate the camera set up. I'll have to think about this. Honestly, I don't know.

[no one]

Sandy,

You mean Randi is not for real?!!? Not on the up and up?!!?

I was joking about the MDC. However, I was wondering what you'd say to that since I am sure it will come up from someone who is serious; if it hasn't all already.

[Sandy]

It comes up often enough, no one. Bugs the heck out of me too.

[no one]

ugggghhh, sorry to bug; especially to the heck out of level - even if joking.

What are your thoughts on developing (or inherently possessing) the ability to move or effect larger, heavier more complex objects or mechanisms.

On a different thread I mentioned a pk event that I am sure I witnessed and yet still can't accept to the point where sometimers I doubt I actually saw what I think I did, even though I know I did - specifically a large locked door being opened by the gentle wave of a hand. I just have such a hard time getting a feeling for what it is/how it works. So I ask questions pertaining to the angles that trouble me hoping for an answer that leads me to that 'aha!' moment.

So, if the mind can effect your device, why not something larger. I mean we are not dealing with muscle strength or structural engineering or anything like that. Do you see a time in the future when you could move a chair or desk or cause a car to start or anything like that? If not, why not? If yes, why?

Thanks.

[Sandy]

No one, only monsters do things like that. I started to learn about pk to cure it. I don't want things to move in the way you've suggested.