FYI

Rudolf H. Smit has now posted a lengthy comment responding to some criticisms and questions regarding the "dentures" NDE. You can find it here. 

As long as I'm directing people's attention to things, I'll point out that my friend and fellow author J. Carson Black has made two more of her suspense novels available as Kindle ebooks. They are Darkness at the Edge of Town and Dark Side of the Moon - both highly recommended to mystery-thriller fans. And each is only $2.99!

My own thriller Riptide is also available as a Kindle blah blah blah ... yeah, you've heard it all before. 

Comments

[Ben]

Riptide is a real page-turner Michael, and with authentic detail. I don't know how you find time to do all the research, read so many books and run a blog too (not to mention your financial dealings!)

[Michael Prescott]

Thanks, Ben!

[Tom]

This has nothing to do with the current post, but this case is so weird that I feel I must share it with people who are interested in strange stuff. I saw a BBC documentary called "Madness in the fast lane" the other night on Swedish TV4 when I couldn't sleep. It's about two Swedish twin sisters who for no apparent reason tried to kill themselves by running out into the heavily trafficked motorway to London two years ago. But of them survived, despite being run over, one of them more than once, but it didn't end there. There is nothing paranormal about it, but it really starts you thinking. Here is a link where the case is summarized:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=188280&st=0&p=3537653&hl=sabina%20and%20ursula%20eriksson&fromsearch=1&#entry3537653

At the site is also a link to the BBC documentary at youtube. Viewer discretion is advised. It has real footage from the traffic surveillance cameras of the traffic accidents and it may be very distressing.

[Zerdini]

I saw that programme, Tom, and as you rightly point out it is very distressing.

[.]

"There is nothing paranormal about it"

It is distressing, but it's not paranormal. So why on earth should we watch it?

[Tom]

Yes, indeed. I can't get the twin sisters out of my mind. Something very eery about them. Just consider the fact that one of the sisters was run over twice - or was it three times? - on the motorway, and despite this she had to be held down by six people to get first aid. Not to speak of her careless attitude the next day at the hospital.

Here is another link to a somewhat critical review of the documentary:

http://www.theartsdesk.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1988:madness-in-the-fast-lane-bbc1&Itemid=27

Yes, the documentary may be justly criticized for being rather tacky and sensationalist, but the facts are what they are, and the most bizarre part was the sisters themselves and their actions.

[Erich]

some people are suggesting a paranormal explanation to the events surrounding the twins; demon possession.

[Tom]

"It is distressing, but it's not paranormal. So why on earth should we watch it?"

I already gave an answer to that: "strange stuff", and this blog is about "matters of life and death". Further, when I wrote that there is nothing paranormal about it, I was on the point of adding: "or so it seems", and between the lines I implied that there might be something paranormal about it after all.

Yes, Erich, one's thoughts can't be stopped from wandering in that direction.

[Art]

"and between the lines I implied that there might be something paranormal about it after all." - Tom
-----------------

As far as I'm concerned everything is "paranormal" - meaning we can't really explain it. I think everything happens for a reason, even the bad stuff and for everything that happens there is the superficial obvious reason - and then a deeper underlying spiritual reason why it happened.

Our whole universe is Maya, an illusion, and what we see as being solid matter are the electro-magnetic bonds between the atoms and not the atoms themselves. The only reason my hand doesn't float right down through the table they are resting on is because the negative charges of the electrons in my hand are repelling the negative charges of the electrons in the table.

All physics is quantum physics and all chemistry is quantum chemistry. We don't see it but there is a deeper underlying reality we aren't privvy to because our senses aren't designed to see it.

[Zerdini]

That is the Law Of Correspondece, Art.

"As Above, so Below"

"As Within, so Without"

[Matt Rouge]

Michael,

I've been reading some of your essays on your website, and I just wanted to say that it's really great stuff.

It would be cool to have a post from you about your take on the current state of the publishing industry. I'm trying to get a non-fiction book published (really just starting the process), and your perspective would be valuable.

Cheers,

Matt

[Michael Prescott]

Thanks, Matt. Unfortunately my perspective on the current state of the publishing industry is pretty negative. This is partly because I can't get published anymore ... but I've also seen a lot of other writers with established careers suddenly become unemployed.

The situation is at its worst in fiction. Nonfiction probably offers more opportunities. But the combination of the recession, the ongoing transition to ebooks, the ineptitude of the publishing industry, and competition from many other sources of entertainment and information has led to a severe decline in book sales.

Joe Konrath's blog covers the waterfront quite well:

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/

On the plus side, it's never been easier or cheaper to publish your own book. On the minus side, it's incredibly hard to make your book stand out from the crowd and get noticed.

A new writer with no track record probably has a better shot at getting a publishing deal than a multiply-published writer with a mixed track record. In that sense, if you haven't been published before, you may have an edge.

The main thing publishers are looking for is a way to generate buzz about the book. Someone who is good at promotion and has venues available to sell himself will have a big advantage. To take an extreme example, anyone who has his own TV show can get a book deal easily. Of course, few of us have our own shows, but even people who speak regularly at conferences or have done radio interviews, etc., have an edge over those who aren't PR-savvy. So if you can convince a publisher that you can find creative and effective ways to spread the word about your book to a large audience, it is far more likely you'll pique their interest.

Credentials help too. A self-help book has a much greater chance of being published if it's written by a licensed psychologist. Even in fiction, someone who is an actual police detective or CSI technician will be more likely to sell a police-procedural novel than someone who isn't. Readers like to think they're getting the inside story.

(They're often fooled. Readers bought Margaret Truman's crime novels because they thought they were getting an insider's perspective on life in Washington. But Ms. Truman - Harry Truman's daughter - didn't write those books. The ghostwriter was a guy who had never set foot in the White House! The same is true, even more obviously, for crime novels with a tennis theme "written" by Martina Navratilova, sci-fi novels "written" by William Shatner, etc.)

Basically, the book business is all about the sizzle, not the steak. The quality of what you've written matters to some extent, but your perceived ability to "build a brand" matters much more.

Sorry to be kind of a downer ... but hey, you asked! And sheer persistence can get you past a lot of these hurdles. After all, as long as the publishers are still in business, they have to buy something.

[Rene]

I agree, how do you find the time to do all those things mentioned in your last comment !

Hope I can read Riptide in due course as your early novel Manstopper !

[Kathleen]

Just wanted to add, it is a shame what is going on in the publishing industry, especially in the United States. It seems the industry just wants to hand out 7-figure advances to anyone considered a "celebrity." Meanwhile, really talented writers get ignored.

[Leo MacDonald]

I just came across this article titled that's not an afterlife- that's a brainstorm!. Apparently a study that proves that nde's that caused by a surge of electrical brain activity when the brain runs out of oxygen. What does everyone think?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/medicine/article7140165.ece

[Art]

"Apparently a study that proves that nde's that caused by a surge of electrical brain activity when the brain runs out of oxygen. What does everyone think?" - Leo MacDonald
----------------------------------

I'm very sorry but I think you are a troll that won't answer my question. Why do people who have near death experiences routinely describe them in terms that seem to parallel, corroborate, and congruent with the holographic universe theory and quantum physics? How is that people who have never heard or read anything about the holographic universe theory oftentimes come back and describe their experience in terms that can only be called "holographic?"

[Matt Rouge]

Michael,

Very helpful! I RSSed Joe's blog (of course, I RSS yours too!).

I am reading a book on writing book proposals. Well written book, but it can's sugar-coat the fact that the whole process is pretty darn odious.

I really don't like ceding control to others, and I hate the whole "gatekeeper" thing, so I think I'm likely to go the self-pubbing route.

Thanks again!

Matt

[Michael Prescott]

"Apparently a study that proves that nde's are caused by a surge of electrical brain activity when the brain runs out of oxygen."

I don't think "proves" is the right word. "Suggests" might be more like it.

Of course even if a surge of electrical activity is correlated with an NDE, we're still left to deal with the content of the NDE. This is not just the "holographic" content, though this is apparent especially in the life review, but also content like this:

Pretty consistent reports of traveling through a tunnel or a void toward a welcoming light.

Encounters with deceased loved ones.

Paradise environments.

Buildings made of crystalline materials and described as being constructed of "pure thought."

Telepathic communication with others in the afterlife.

A Being of Light who guides the NDEr in self-judgement.

A decision to return in order to complete unfinished business on Earth.

And of course the veridical reports of activities in the ER or OR, and even of things taking place far away from the patient's location.

If the NDE is simply a hallucination, I find it odd that the hallucinations are fairly consistent, even when experienced by people with no religious beliefs and no knowledge of NDEs or spiritualism.

If the brain is a kind of filter that normally keeps us from being overwhelmed by information about the spirit world, maybe the surge of energy in the dying brain widens the filter and allows us to see further than we usually do.

Or maybe not. More study is needed. Nothing is "proved."

[sbu]

I'm very sorry but I think you are a troll that won't answer my question. Why do people who have near death experiences routinely describe them in terms that seem to parallel, corroborate, and congruent with the holographic universe theory and quantum physics

Simple answer - they don't. Please check http://www.iands.org/nde_index/ndes/key_facts_about_near-death_experiences.html for "verified" facts about near death experiences.

[Ronnie Lee]

I also suspect there may be a correlation between brain surges and NDEs, however, I have to wonder, does this only occur when death is inevitable, or can it also occur when it's reversible? We can't really know for sure what's happening at that moment if it's only happening when the death process is impossible to reverse at that point, and if it also does happen to those who are literally near-death, one has to wonder why they don't always have an NDE when a surge occurs.

[Art]

"Why do people who have near death experiences routinely describe them in terms that seem to parallel, corroborate, and congruent with the holographic universe theory and quantum physics." - art
--------------------------------------------
Simple answer - they don't. Please check http://www.iands.org/nde_index/ndes/key_facts_about_near-death_experiences.html for "verified" facts about near death experiences." - sbu
--------------------------------------------

??? Huh? It had nothing to do with my question. I went and read the whole article that you posted. It didn't even mention the connection between NDE's and the holographic universe theory.

There is a chapter in Dr. Ken Ring's book "Life At Death" that is all about the connection between NDEs and the holographic Universe. Dr. Melvin Morse in his book Where God Lives devotes several pages to the connection between NDEs and the holographic Universe. Dr. Oswald Harding wrote a whole book about the connection between NDEs and the holographic Universe called Near Death Experiences: A Holographic Explanation.

People who have NDE's routinely talk about overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness, feeling like they are everywhere in the universe at once, time and space not existing, buildings that are "made out of knowledge", 360 degree vision, seeing colors they've never seen before, hearing sounds that they haven't heard in this physical universe, and during the life review seeing their whole lives flash by in an instant (bolus of information)and feeling the emotions and feelings of the people they interacted with (the life review is a holographic experience par excellence), and how the other side will feel even more real to us than this side does, and feeling the feelings and hearing the thoughts of the people they interacted with. I find these things to be very evidential because it parallels things I've read about in popular physics books.

for example - excerpt from Mark Horton's NDE:

"I literally had the feeling that I was everywhere in the universe simultaneously." http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/markh.html

The answer is obvious. We are presently living in a holographic projection and after the body dies the soul merges back into the original holographic film from which this "physical" universe is projected from - which means that everything that is here will exist there - only the physics of that dimension will be very different than this dimension. And because a holographic projection is blurry the other side (heaven) will seem even more real to us -"realer than real" as some near death experiencers describe it - than this side does.

excerpt from: The holographic universe: When it pays to be first

"Since the volume of the spherical universe is much bigger than its outer surface, how could this be true? Hogan realized that in order to have the same number of bits inside the universe as on the boundary, the world inside must be made up of grains bigger than the Planck length. ‘Or, to put it another way, a holographic universe is blurry,’ says Hogan.

This is good news for anyone trying to probe the smallest unit of space-time. ‘Contrary to all expectations, it brings its microscopic quantum structure within reach of current experiments,’ says Hogan. So while the Planck length is too small for experiments to detect, the holographic ‘projection’ of that graininess could be much, much larger, at around 10-16 meters. ‘If you lived inside a hologram, you could tell by measuring the blurring,’ he says."

http://blogs.monografias.com/sistema-limbico-neurociencias/2010/02/19/the-holographic-universe-when-it-pays-to-be-first/

The answer is simple. The place that near death experiencers describe they went to after they died has all the attributes one might expect in the original holographic film from which our present "physical" universe derives from. After our body dies our soul merges back into the original holographic film, a place where everything, past, present, and future exists, where thoughts are things or whatever you focus your attention on you experience, where time and space don't seem to exist, and where the feelings of oneness, connectedness, and "love" seem to be overwhelming and infinite.

[Leo]

I am sorry to everyone here, sometimes i think that death maybe the end or that life after death is real i seem to go back and forth quite a bit lately. But now that this is a new day i argee it wouldn't explain the verdical accounts of ndes, nor blind people who see during ndes, also honestly after looking at the article more.

It looks like it doesn't explain anything at all and certainly provides no evidence that ndes are a hallucination. Because the patients didn't report any nde or obe so there was no correlation done whatsoever with that surge of brain activity that lasts about three minutes when the brain lacks oxygen. Also there are many cases where obe happen for a lot longer than 3 minutes, also the cortex of the brain needs to be working too to have complex mental functioning like what is seen in ndes.

[Leo]

Hi Art,

I don't see the strong connection between the holographic theory and nde's. Perhaps
nder's are getting glimpse of another parellel universe one of an infinite number of them.

[Art]

I have read literally thousands of NDEs in books, on websites, etc. About 1/3 of them say things that have a very "holographic" flavor to them - referring to the connectedness and oneness they felt, etc. If you disagree with me about the connection between NDEs and the holographic universe theory then you also disagree with Dr. Ken Ring, Dr. Melvin Morse, Dr. Oswald Harding, and Dr. Edgar Mitchell.

But if you don't really understand or haven't read and studied what the implications of living in a holographic universe are then I can understand how one might not be able to see the connection between NDEs and the holographic universe theory. It's plain and obvious to me.

[Leo]

The problem i have with the holographic theory is it doesn't seem to make any testable predictions, also how could a person prove that were living in a holographic universe?

[Art]

There are a plethora of articles on the internet, in reputable scientific journals, about the holographic nature of our universe. Everything is pointing in that direction. There is no way on this blog I can direct you to all of them. It is the sum total of the evidence, from many different directions, which gives me a high degree of confidence, that we live in some kind of strange holographic projection.

excerpt from article I posted a link to earlier:

"For many months, the GEO600 team-members had been scratching their heads over inexplicable noise that is plaguing their giant detector. Then, out of the blue, a researcher approached them with an explanation. In fact, he had even predicted the noise before he knew they were detecting it. According to Craig Hogan, a physicist at the Fermilab particle physics lab in Batavia, Illinois, GEO600 has stumbled upon the fundamental limit of space-time - the point where space-time stops behaving like the smooth continuum Einstein described and instead dissolves into ‘grains’, just as a newspaper photograph dissolves into dots as you zoom in. ‘It looks like GEO600 is being buffeted by the microscopic quantum convulsions of space-time,’ says Hogan.

If this doesn’t blow your socks off, then Hogan, who has just been appointed director of Fermilab’s Center for Particle Astrophysics, has an even bigger shock in store: ‘If the GEO600 result is what I suspect it is, then we are all living in a giant cosmic hologram.’"
http://blogs.monografias.com/sistema-limbico-neurociencias/2010/02/19/the-holographic-universe-when-it-pays-to-be-first/

[Art]

excerpt from an online article in National Geographic about an interview with Dr. Brian Greene, PhD Physicist from Columbia University:

"In the final chapter of your book, you suggest that the world may be a hologram. That sounds very Matrix-like."

"It's a very speculative idea that seems to, strangely enough, naturally emerge from string theory. Basically, the fundamental laws of the universe don't really operate in the environment around us. They may operate on sort of a distant bounding surface and give rise to the familiar world that we experience in much the same way that a thin piece of plastic, when illuminated correctly—if it's a hologram—can yield a three-dimensional image.

It might be that the deep laws are more like the thin piece of plastic existing on a thin bounding surface. Everything we know might be akin to a holographic projection of those distant laws."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/03/0326_040326_briangreene_2.html

[Art]

"Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." - Niels Bohr

Most materialist are stuck in Newtonian thinking, not realizing that quantum physics has changed everything about just how "real" our universe is. Atoms are mostly ghostly empty space, 99.9999999% empty space to be exact - and if an atom were blown up to the size of a football stadium the nucleus would be the size of a grain of rice in the middle and electrons would be little more than wispy clouds floating around the outside.

And the sub-atomic particles themselves are hardly like anything we've come to know as matter being more like eddies in a stream or river than a rock or a BB. Sub atomic particles can appear and disappear, make quantum jumps, sometimes appearing as waves and sometimes as particles, able to instantaneously with each other over vast distances, and sometimes even seeming to communicate with the people who investigate them.

The only reason my hands don't float right down through the table they are resting on is because of the negative charges of the electrons in my hand repelling the negative charges of the electrons in the table. There is very little about "matter" that is real.

[Art]

quote about Dr. Ken Ring:

"In 1980 University of Connecticut psychologist Dr. Kenneth Ring proposed that near-death experiences could be explained by the holographic model. Ring, who is president of the International Association for Near-Death Studies, believes such experiences, as well as death itself, are really nothing more than the shifting of a person's consciousness from one level of the hologram of reality to another."
http://quanta-gaia.org/reviews/books/holoUniverse.html

Which is exactly what I believe.

[michael duggan]

"Apparently a study that proves that nde's are caused by a surge of electrical brain activity when the brain runs out of oxygen."

This has been over-hyped by the skeptics. Electrical surges can't explain the Gamma synchrony (a signature of well organised conscious activity), yet this is observed in these patients.

see here for a balanced overview of these findings;

http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/

[Aftrbrnr]

Hmm, I honestly don't like using Michael's blog as a message board of sorts, but I decided to find the most relevant topic.

Someone had the balls, err, courage to post on PZ Myer's blog about evidence of survival of consciousness after death. Of course, seeing the types of people who post there, you can obviously expect that there was disagreement and immaturity. While I don't have a probably with the former, it's the latter that bothers me. I honestly want to pretend that these guys are angry teenagers, but I just face palm when I realize some of the responses are coming from adults that are in the 40 of 50-year-old range.

One of the guys called the R-101 case "opportunistic ghoulism", whatever that is supposed to mean and references cases where blinde NDE'ers have seen things as "Masturbating Without Genitalia"

The one that pretty much almost made me lose faith in humanity was when the poster pointed out all the evidence out there and someone responded

"Of course. There isn't any.

There also aren't any volumes of scientific research on invisible pink unicorns."

[Kris]

Hey Aftr

I finally came to realize that one should just ignore the skeptics. They might be right every now and then, the same way a broken watch is right twice a day but even if they are correct on occasion it is not through reason so much as dumb luck.

Paranormalist have better reasoning skills. There I said it. Evaluating evidence for survival is better done in house, you are much more likely to get a balanced, well thought out view that way.

[Matt Rouge]

I read the article about brain surges.

I think it's both sad and hilarious that the researchers think that they've finally "got it" with this discovery. It shows such a lack of understanding, if not a profound disregard, for the "facts on the ground" of NDEs.

As has been pointed out above, the brain surge can hardly explain why people have the same kinds of experiences during their NDE. If a skeptic knew *nothing* about NDEs and had to predict what kind of experiences the process of the brain dying and then being revived would create, what would they guess? Of course, they would guess what matches their worldview and, in this case, what would also match common sense. To wit, in order of likelihood:

1. Nothing. The person is unconscious and in a terrible state, so he or she would remember nothing.

2. Totally random stuff--not a coherent dream. Isn't this the best we could expect of a brain undergoing severe trauma?

3. Random nightmares, since the brain is under trauma.

4. Random pleasant dreams, since the brain is trying to comfort itself during the dying process (or the chemistry of the moment would cause this).

Not a skeptic in the world would have guessed what ended up happening, which is a *very* consistent set of experience. Even without veridical NDEs, even without the strange fact that NDErs *swear* that their experiences were real (including hard-core atheists!), even without the fact that many NDEs take place when the patient has zero brainwave--even without all these things, the researchers and skeptics in general have a lot of explaining to do.

But of course they don't bother. Once they find their "cause," they're done. Their worldview is preserved, and the issue that remains can be hand-waved away.

It is to laugh.

Thanks,

Matt

[Paul]

Aftr

Your dead right (sorry for the pun) about the level of debate and awareness of the evidence (or lack) on such forums. It is possible to waste a great deal of energy on them reasoning with folks who won't even discuss the facts. Sooner or later it is probably best to leave them to it. I don't really understand why it has to get so adversarial and insulting. I guess anyone is capable of being provoked, the problem with such an important topic is that the debate sometimes becomes about being the 'winner' and not uncovering the truth.

Just a couple of observations. Some of the people supporting 'paranormal' phenomena seem just as childish as some of the sceptics and equally unwilling to consider objections rationally, which is a shame.

Secondly, although it may appear that the message regarding evidence isn't being heard by,a sometimes vocal, minority of often uninformed posters - there may be a significant number of folks reading such forums with a truly open mind. Their voice is probably seldom heard on such but they are there nonetheless. I think the term is lurkers :) - they may well follow-up the evidence and reach their own conclusions.

[Kathleen]

Aftr, I agree with everyone's advice on avoiding skeptics who behave so obnoxiously. I did not believe that NDEs meant anything myself and was highly skeptical. After reading Moody's books and other material, I am now convinced there is something going on. I recently had a discussion with someone who insisted that NDEs are "only hallucinations." I explained that it's highly improbable that thousands of people all over the world from different cultures would have such a similar hallucination, but to no avail. Another interesting argument is a kind of Darwinist theory that NDEs are just "nature's way" to make death easier on us, that it's sort of an evolutionary thing to ease our passing. But what purpose would it serve in actually helping our species--if we're dying, we can't procreate anymore, so how would feeling better about dying help the species? And if it was some fantasy wish fulfillment, how many people would wish to experience a life review? They'd probably want to be golfing, or driving a Ferrari, or enjoying a gourmet dinner--not reviewing their life. I keep looking for valid arguments that show NDEs aren't "real," but so far haven't found any. Maybe I don't want to see it, but so far, it's going to take a little more to make me believe that there's nothing to NDEs.

[Bruce Siegel]

"And if it was some fantasy wish fulfillment, how many people would wish to experience a life review?"

Especially when you consider that NDE'rs often say that their life review is, to some extent, painful. They speak of feeling the pain of people they've hurt as if it were their own. (Think of Dannion Brinkley's classic account, for example.)

Not easy to explain as wish fulfillment!

[Matt Rouge]

How about this evolutionary argument?

Life on earth evolved such that people and animals have spirits that live on after their bodies are did, since having an immortal spirit makes an animal happier, less fearful, and more likely to pass its DNA on to the next generation.

;)

Ad hoc arguments like that can work both ways.

Cheers,

Matt

[Tharpa]

Nice Matt. But some animals are really, really, gross- let me just say disgusting, really. C'mon dragonfly. You've had like 200 zillion years to grow something/ do something interesting. But you still keep zipping around over my pond. I mean, you're pretty good at it. I would think at this point.

Apparently, hope you like that shit. I don't know if I could handle zipping around some pond for 200 zillion years.

Is it all the same dragonfly in lots of sections? Ah.........such 'Michael Prescott' reflections.

[Art]

"C'mon dragonfly. You've had like 200 zillion years to grow something/ do something interesting. But you still keep zipping around over my pond. I mean, you're pretty good at it. I would think at this point. Apparently, hope you like that shit. I don't know if I could handle zipping around some pond for 200 zillion years." - Tharpa
--------------------------------------------

They are imprinting on the collective unconscious time and space, what it's like to fly in 3 dimensions and one dimensional time, the parameters of everything they can see with their compound eyes, the flavors and smells of all the different kinds of tasty bugs they eat, the shapes and colors of all the plants, trees, flowers that surround the ponds, the large animals, birds, reptiles, dinosaurs, etc. they see, and when they are nymphs in the water they imprint everything that is going under the water, the shape of plants, animals, fish, etc.

We are spiritual beings having a physical experience - and so is every other living creature - holistically imprinting on the "soul" what it means and how it feels to be separate, what time and space looks and feels like, and what it felt like to be inside or occupy or inhabit a physical body, what it felt like to eat, mate, fly, run, walk, talk, and just live in a universe where time and space appear to be real and where one is limited inside a physical body.

excerpt from Randy Gehling's (age 10) Near Death Experience:

"She said that we would enter the light and become one with it. Before I could ask what that meant, she just gave my hand a little tug, and then we were inside the light."

"That was really cool! I kind of felt as though my body exploded - in a nice way - and became a million different atoms - and each single atom could think its own thoughts and have its own feelings. All at once I seemed to feel like I was a boy, a girl, a dog, a cat, a fish. Then I felt like I was an old man, an old woman - and then a little tiny baby."
http://near-death.com/experiences/animals04.html

The physics of "heaven" is very different than this life. The separateness and limitations that we experience in this life won't exist in the next. Because of the "holographic" nature of the spiritual universe we will feel like we are everywhere at once, connected to everything and everyone, able to change our "location" (I use that term loosely) and time and space simply by focusing our attention on it. Our consciousness won't be limited to a body - simply by "thinking" about it we will be able to know what it was like to be any creature in the entire Universe (not just the Earth), Golden Eagles, dolphins, whales, etc. And every nook and cranny, that has been imprinted and the information stored will be able to be explored simply by focusing our attention on that place. If you want to know what it is like to swim with or like a penguin you simply think about penguins.

[Bruce Siegel]

"some animals are really, really, gross- let me just say disgusting, really. C'mon dragonfly."

Gross to us humans perhaps. And isn't that sad?

"C'mon dragonfly. You've had like 200 zillion years to grow something/ do something interesting."

Yes, and we humans have had how many millions of years to evolve, and yet we can't get beyond the racist notion that other creatures are less worthy than we.

Now THAT'S a deficiency, it seems to me.

I don't mean to come down on you, Tharpa. But I do like to stick up for God's worthiness in all the amazing biological forms he chooses to inhabit. Which is why I appreciate Art's description of the joys of being a dragonfly:

"what it's like to fly in 3 dimensions and one dimensional time, the parameters of everything they can see with their compound eyes, the flavors and smells of all the different kinds of tasty bugs they eat, the shapes and colors of all the plants, trees, flowers that surround the ponds, the large animals, birds, reptiles, dinosaurs, etc. they see, and when they are nymphs in the water they imprint everything that is going under the water, the shape of plants, animals, fish, etc."

[Tom]

Yes, dragonflies are beautiful, mysterious animals. I wouldn't mind being one for a while. In fact, I talked to a guy who works with plants at a kind of organic family farm here in Skane, Sweden. Really nice place, by the way. I asked him about dragonflies, because I had been thinking about a beautiful specimen I had seen. He said that they are territorial in their behaviour and like to check out everything that goes on the area. Then he said that if you go out and stand on a certain small bridge at a pond in the garden then after a while a certain green-yellow dragonfly will come and circle around you to see what kind of creature you are. Hm, I was dubious, but we did it, a friend and me, and yes, after a while it came. First it was hiding behind a small boat but soon it circled around us and then, satisfied that we weren't enemies, it returned to its ordinary chores.

What's so great about being a human being anyway? Compared to being another animal, that is. You have to work like a slave most of your life to get food and follow a lot of silly rules for your behaviour and worry constantly about life and death.

[Matt Rouge]

Great posts. Art, that's a wonderful description.

I have read that certain animals have a "group soul," not individual spirits as we do. I think that's conjectural at this point, but it's something to ponder.

[Art]

excerpt from Michelle M's NDE:
"I remember understanding the others here.. as if the others here were a part of me too. As if all of it was just a vast expression of me. But it wasn't just me, it was .. gosh this is so hard to explain.. it was as if we were all the same. As if consciousness were like a huge being. The easiest way to explain it would be like all things are all different parts of the same body."
http://www.nderf.org/michelle_m's_nde.htm
--------------------------------------------
Dragonflies may be just as conscious as we are and every living thing may be connected to the Light. It's a holographic universe thing.

Remember on the Star Trek: The Next Generation they had a holodeck where they could program the computer to generate a whole world? Everyone in the holodeck was controlled by the computer, but they thought of themselves as being "real".

There are a lot of things I'm not entire sure of. I am suspicious though if all the separation we experience in this life doesn't happen for a reason - to teach the soul what it means and how it feels to be separate. Life seems to be one unending lesson in separation - from the moment we are born and separate from our mothers till the day we die and our deaths become a lesson in separation to the loved ones we leave behind. Divorce, losing friends, moving away, politics, religion, race, culture, language, dialects, war, I.Q., education, gender, sexual orientation, etc. The list in never ending. The ultimate lesson in separation is losing someone we love. Nothing else comes close.

I've read many articles that say that memories are tied to emotions. The more emotional the experience the more powerful and long lasting the memory it creates. The most emotional thing I've ever experienced is when my mom died when I was fifteen years old. I remember crying for three days. I can still get teary eyed thinking about it.

I could go on and on about this stuff. I've got to actually stifle myself to stop.

[Art]

Continuity.....

Okay, one other thing and I'll stop. Something that I've noticed about near death experiences and death bed visions is the continuity of the experience. For instance I remember reading one death bed vision where the daughter experienced her mother leaving her body and leaving with an "angel" (or some spiritual being) the daughter said that she heard her mother say inside her head "it's as easy as walking through a door". Meaning that when you die it won't be like there will be period of time when you won't be conscious.

What I mean by that is that it's sort of like a song. We listen to individual notes but when you hear all the notes together they go to make up these beautiful recognizable songs. Our lives are sort of like that.

After we die all our memories, and who we are, leave at once, as one recognizable chunk of consciousness. We don't lose our identity, our "separateness". There is never a time when we won't be ourselves. Or as Josh Grobin says in his song, "After all, your still you."

Josh Grobin - Your Still You

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVHNHvkf0Ss

[Ronnie Lee]

Janice Miner Holden has posted a review of Jeffrey Long's Evidence of the Afterlife on the IONS website.

http://www.noetic.org/noetic/noetic-now-issue-one-may/review/

[Kris]

Link no work Ronnie :(

[Zerdini]

The link worked for me, Kris.

Here is an extract from the article:

Of biggest concern is Long’s major premise: “[T]he afterlife is for all of us . . . a loving . . . realm.” First, he has generalized to “all of us” an experience that has been reported by a minority of NDErs. Of all those who have survived a close brush with death, only 10 to 30 percent later report an NDE, and 70 to 90 percent have no memory of anything. Also, despite their similarities, every NDE is unique in its contents, which defies a definitive description of “the afterlife.” In addition, the nature of consciousness during reversible, temporary death does not necessarily characterize “the afterlife” during irreversible, permanent death. Furthermore, a substantial minority of NDErs report distressing rather than “loving” experiences—a topic Long admitted was beyond the scope of his book.

[Leo]

Hi Zerdini,

The reason is because nde's are a under-reported phenomenon a lot of patients who have one won't talk to nurses and doctors because they be afraid of being called a liar, crazy etc.

[Leo]

I like to point out too in 2006 scientists were able to erase the long-term memories of rats brains for a month by injecting with a protein, called ZIP, that inactivates an enzyme thought to be essential to the continued storage of long-term memory. The probblem is with the assumption that the long-term memory is erased, however memory seems to be constrained and limited by the brain not produced by it.This delivers more evidence that the filter theory of consciousness is probably true rather than the production theory.

[Zerdini]

Hi Leo

Thank you for your comments.

The extract I posted was simply to show Kris that the link that Ronnie gave worked.

It does not necessarily reflect my view of NDE's.

[sbu]

The reason is because nde's are a under-reported phenomenon a lot of patients who have one won't talk to nurses and doctors because they be afraid of being called a liar, crazy etc.

This is pure speculation.

[Leo]

Why is it pure speculation is a known fact, Penny Sartori's study clearly shows that near death experiences are an under-reported phenomenon just read this page

http://www.iands.org/research/important_studies/penny_sartori_phd_prospective_study_4.html

[Ronnie Lee]

You have to admit that there's been quite a surge in reported NDEs since infancy of NDE research.

[Ronnie Lee]

The Daily Grail has a new story spotlight on reincarnation complete with an interesting embedded video interview with Jim Tucker, who is investigating such suggestive cases.

http://www.dailygrail.com/Spirit-World/2010/8/Remembrance-Lives-Past

[Art]

"spotlight on reincarnation - Ronnie Lee
------------------------------------------

The first Noble truth of Buddhism is "All life is suffering" and I believe it. I woke up this morning with a catch in my right hip and butt muscle and it hurt so bad that it brought tears to my eyes. On Wednesday I have to go to the Dentist because I have a cavity in one of my wisdom teeth. My dentist want's me to have the last three of my wisdom teeth removed by an oral surgeon. I have severe arthritis in my hips and back and am in pain all the time. As far as I'm concerned coming back here after I die would be pure punishment. Who in their right mind would want to come back here once they have been to Heaven? If there is such a thing as reincarnation I highly doubt it would be voluntary. This is the hell that the Bible speaks of.

[Ronnie Lee]

I'm not much of a fan of reincarnating back onto this Earth either, but I find it an interesting topic regardless.

[Art]

I just read an NDE about a woman who "sent back" against her will so perhaps if there is reincarnation it works along the same lines? I also remember reading an NDE about this little 11 year old girl who was talking to this angle in Heaven. He told her she had to go back and she pitched a fit and told the angel that she wanted to stay there. She said they were standing next to this white fence and she grabbed hold of it and she said the Angel just laughed at her and she woke up back in her physical body. A friend of mine at Church, Todd, had a near death experience when he was 8 years old. He was hit by a car. He says he can still remember the light, being held, and the love he felt on the other side. Anyway, he said he spent the first half of his life trying to do things that would put him back there. He is married now with two boys. He's a plumber and has rheumatoid arthritis. I think he's like 42 years old.

[Michael Prescott]

"The first Noble truth of Buddhism is "All life is suffering" and I believe it."

Sorry to hear about your daily struggle with pain, Art. If you take Michael Newton's books seriously (and I'm not how I feel about it), a difficult life is often chosen by a very advanced soul that feels ready for it. Supposedly such a strenuous life is often followed by a much easier life, to compensate.

Whatever the merits of Newton's work as a hypnotherapist, it does seem to me that immature, irresponsible, egocentric souls often skate through life, while more serious and mature souls encounter obstacles, setbacks, and difficulties. How often have we wondered why bad things happen to good people ... and why good things happen to bad people? Maybe the "bad" people are raw, inexperienced souls who get to coast through kindergarten, while the "good" people are advanced souls who must struggle through demanding postgraduate courses.

Just a thought ...

[Art]

If I have a choice I'm not coming back. It is beyond me why anyone would want to come back here? Remember in Star Trek: Generations the Nexxus, the energy ribbon that while you were inside it your every wish was fulfilled? Well, that is how I picture heaven and it sounds pretty good me. A nice house on a tropical beach surrounded by tropical fruit trees? Sort of like Hawaii before humans arrived there? That is how my heaven looks. I'm ready to go right now, and no - I wouldn't get bored. I think I'd like to spend a few trillion years there.

[Art]

Just read a fun article and I wanted to share it with ya'll. Here's an excerpt from the article.....

Are we living in a designer universe?
by John Gribbin

"The great British astronomer Fred Hoyle suggested that the laws of physics were so uniquely conducive to human existence that the universe must be "a put-up job". I believe he was right: the universe was indeed set up to provide a home for life, even if it evolved through a process of natural selection, with no need for outside interference. It isn't that man was created in God's image – rather that our universe was created, more or less, in the image of its designers."

go to read full article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7972538/Are-we-living-in-a-designer-universe.html

[Ben]

"The first Noble truth of Buddhism is "All life is suffering" and I believe it."

I'm sorry you're going through the mill, Art. This one's for you:

They say the gentle are a dying breed;
Have they ascended to a higher plane?
I sometimes fear this may be so; indeed,
There’s no-one now to simply bless the rain
Because it makes the flower meadows grow;
And who walks out, in meditative ease,
With friends, yet keeps his conversation low,
To better hear the songbirds in the trees?
Perhaps they never quite came down to us
Except in children’s fairy tales or dreams;
But if, in fact, they were more numerous,
Then their escape did not need clever schemes:
Not secret rites; nor hard-fought holy wars;
For gentle souls are pushed through heaven’s doors.

[Art]

Hi Ben. Thanks, that is a nice poem. I especially like the last line, "for gentle souls are pushed through heaven's doors." My died at age 51 of stomach and intestinal cancer. I was 15 years old. My parents were divorced when I was six years old in 1959. My mom got me and my baby sister Robin and my Dad took my older sister Linda and my brother John and my sister Rose. There were six kids. My oldest sister Valerie married an older guy who was an alcoholic and a cab driver.

So, here was my mom, divorced, overweight, high school education, 42 years old, post partum depression, it was 1959, we were living in Bonfield, Illinois which is 14 miles from Kankakee, IL, didn't know how to drive, stuck with a one year old baby and a 6 year old son, living on $200/month, with no support system. She was continuously depressed and life didn't turn out at all like she thought it was going to. So, after living in Kankakee for three years my mom, tired of the cold, with painful arthritis in her hips (that is where I inherited it from), one cold winter she packs up me and my baby sister and moves us to Los Angeles, California. We were stuck living in a tenement near Echo Park. She worked in a restaurant and then after two years we moved to living in an apartment in Garden Grove, California. No phone, no car, no air conditioning, my mom was working at Buffums as a salad woman. All this time she has depression.

So, in 1968, 9 years after the divorce my mom died of stomach cancer. At the time, I was fifteen years old, it was a great tragedy, but now that I'm a whole lot older - I see it as a great blessing. All her worries were over. No more worries about being poor, overweight, no health insurance, no car, raising kids, etc. After a few days of suffering she lays down, tells us she has the flu, and dies. At the time it was sad, but now that I believe in life after death I see my mom's death as a great blessing. Or as your poem says, "for gentle souls are pushed through heaven's doors."

Same with my sister Rose. She was 46 years old when she died in 1988. She was bi-polar and schizophrenic and the doctors couldn't control her depression, she was a horrible mess - and she developed severe kidney failure - and no one knew how serious it was, and one night she just died. At that time I didn't even believe in life after death, didn't know anything about death bed visions or near death experiences - but I still thought it was a blessing because Rose was miserable and she had suffered enough. It was like God took her and ended her suffering.

In my family that is how it works. It's like we suffer and suffer and then it seems like when the person has suffered all a person can stand, they die and then it's like instantly all the suffering is over.

So, now I believe in life after death, and think that all the bad stuff happens for a reason, teaches the soul lessons, and because emotion is tied to memory - it has to be the way it is in order to overcome the limitations of the other side, and then when the soul has finished what it was sent here to learn - it is allowed to leave the body and merge back into the Spiritual Universe.

[Art]

"Another interesting argument is a kind of Darwinist theory that NDEs are just "nature's way" to make death easier on us, that it's sort of an evolutionary thing to ease our passing. But what purpose would it serve in actually helping our species--if we're dying, we can't procreate anymore, so how would feeling better about dying help the species?" - Kathleen
--------------------------------------------

Hi Kathleen. The evolution thing you are referring to is "evolutionary fitness." Here is a description of it.

"Fitness (often denoted w in population genetics models) is a central idea in evolutionary theory. It describes the capability of an individual of certain genotype to reproduce, and usually is equal to the proportion of the individual's genes in all the genes of the next generation. If differences in individual genotypes affect fitness, then the frequencies of the genotypes will change over generations; the genotypes with higher fitness become more common. This process is called natural selection."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_fitness

For a person having death bed visions or near death experiences there would be no way to pass on the genes to the next generation because you would be dead so there is no way to benefit the next generation.

Evolution doesn't care about compassion or kindness. It doesn't care if we have a good death or a bad death. It doesn't care how much we suffer. Evolution wouldn't evolve NDEs or DBVs because it wanted us to have a "good death". It's not being kind.

It doesn't make any sense. There is no explanation why people all over the world have near death experiences and death bed visions. They don't improve the evolutionary fitness of the individual.

[Ben]

Art, your story is a sad one. I hope that next to your beach you discover a subtropical version of Ballykissangel where your heaven-mended family members live.

[Art]

Oh man, I loved Ballykissangel! It is a magical place. That was a great show. My mom's death was hardest on my baby sister Robin. Robin was 10 years old when Mom died and after mom died Robin never had a good life. She is 52 years old now. I'm 5 and half years older than Robin. When Robin was in College her boyfriend, Jay, was killed in a car wreck in Colorado. Then she married some guy who was a dope head and a heavy drinker and had a son who has a pretty severe case of asperger's syndrome.

I guess the whole point to all these sad stories is that it makes me wonder why anyone would want to come back here? Why are people so endlessly fascinated by reincarnation? Who in their right mind would want to come back to this Earth? I meet a lot of people who are really into reincarnation.

Personally I have my own ideas about what reincarnation is, that it's a holographic universe oneness and connectedness thing, and that children who manifest these memories are just "tuning into" someone else's stories, and that after they develop their own sense of "self" and their soul's become separate, unique, individuals around 7 years of age, their brains quit remembering those other stories.

And as far as those hypnotized adults? I think when they are under hypnosis their own sense of "self" is turned off and they tune into the collective unconscious and "remember" other folks stories. And those purported physical manifestations? Maybe they are just examples of thoughts being things and consciousness creating reality.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. No way in hell would I want to come back here. They'd have to drag me back here kicking and screaming.

[Kathleen]

Art, just wanted to say that I hope you're feeling much better, I enjoy your posts very much (and thanks to Michael for providing such a forum with such interesting commentators--like attracts like as they say).

I'm also one of those people who hates the idea of reincarnation. I've never read it, but there's a book by Dr. Ian Stevenson, who presented hundreds of case studies seemingly showing that reincarnation is real. In reading reviews of his case studies, one thing that struck me is that so many of them occurred in Hindu India, with the soul very conveniently reincarnating into a new body not very far physically from where the "old body" died. In "The After Death Experience," which I'm reading now, Ian Wilson presents a pretty convincing argument against Stevenson's case studies. Needless to say, I breathed a huge sigh of relief. No "wheel of life" for me, thank you.

[Art]

According to Dr. Pimm Van Lommel our brains work like recievers and transmitters of information. Sort of like a TV set. If everything is recorded in some kind of strange "Akashic records" or "collective unconscious" and according to the majority of NDEs there is really only ONE consciousness - then isn't it possible that these people who claim to have been somebody else might just be tuning into the memories of someone else who lived previously? And as far as birthmarks that "mimic" supposed assaults on their bodies - that could just be examples of thougts being things and consciousness creating reality. Where the memories themselves manifest physically but that doesn't mean that individual soul lived previously. If the purpose we are here is to experience separation, sort of the exact opposite of the Borg collective idea, another words to become "unassimilated" then reincarnation seems rather schizophrenic to me. Another words the only thing that I think reincarnates are the memories, and not the actual soul itself. The child thinks they were that person because they can remember those memories, but in actuality they weren't that person. they are just tuning into their memories. Same with hypnotized adults. Their own sense of self is asleep so they are able to tune into the collective consciousness and access other soul's memories.

[Michael Prescott]

"In 'The After Death Experience,' which I'm reading now, Ian Wilson presents a pretty convincing argument against Stevenson's case studies."

I didn't find Wilson's arguments persuasive. Basically he claims that all, or virtually all, of Stevenson's hundreds of cases were hoaxes engineered by the parents in an attempt to raise their social status (and perhaps gain money) by associating their child with a higher-caste family. But this ignores many cases in which the parents actively discouraged the children from talking about a past life and refused to follow up on the children's claims for years. It also ignores the fact that the children not infrequently knew details of their alleged past lives that would be nearly impossible to fake, and that they were able to pass impromptu tests devised by the relatives of the departed.

Wilson has a tendency to jump to conclusions, especially when those conclusions are in line with his own biases. Thus he concludes, after debunking one medium, that no mediums can be trusted.

"If the purpose we are here is to experience separation ... then reincarnation seems rather schizophrenic to me."

But what if we have another purpose for being here? What if our purpose is to experience a wide variety of lives, in order to gain a rounded perspective on the human condition? Someone who lives as a beggar in Calcutta will have a very different outlook than, say, a software billionaire. But suppose reality is arranged so that the same soul can experience life as a beggar and a billionaire, and in other guises as well. Wouldn't that soul end up with a lot more wisdom than one that was restricted to a single earthly life? We might need only one lifetime to learn separation, but many lifetimes to learn other things.

[Ben]

"But suppose reality is arranged so that the same soul can experience life...in other guises as well."

So Art might come back as a fitness guru with a unique penchant for demonstrating the body beautiful holographically? ;-)

[Michael Prescott]

Art, here's something relevant to arthritis pain that I just came across on an investment website. I have no personal knowledge of this product, but who knows? It might be worth looking into.

Quote:

"I found a company that's taking a traditional Eastern medicine and bringing it to the mainstream. The medicine is called Cobroxin, and it's a painkiller based on cobra venom. I know it sounds silly -- maybe even dangerous. But it works the way nature intended -- by deadening nerves. Cobroxin contains one gram of venom for every four grams of topical gel. It's used to treat 'Stage Two' pain, which is doctorspeak for pain that keeps you from sleeping or causes you to miss a day of work. Special proteins in Cobroxin block something called acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter that activates inflammatory pathways. As those pathways are temporarily shut off by Cobroxin, the pain subsides.

"Patients can buy a topical gel for joint pain, arthritis pain and repetitive stress, or they can opt for an oral that's designed to treat lower back pain, migraines, shoulder pain, cramps and other pain. Each is sold as a one-month supply and costs about $20. The company has another cobra-venom-derived painkiller called Nyloxin, which contains the same effective ingredient but is more highly concentrated.

"Cobroxin has a national distributor and is already available at a host of major retail outlets, including CVS Caremark (NYSE: CVS) and Walgreens (NYSE: WAG). Company representatives at a recent trade show I attended said more retailers, including Walmart (NYSE: WMT), were being added. The product is also starting an advertising campaign, which should help drive sales. The manufacturer has also teamed up with the Arthritis Foundation and even includes the foundation's logo on its packaging.

"Cobroxin is made by Nutra Pharma (OTC: NPHC)."

Source: StreetAuthority.com

[Art]

Thanks Michael, that actually sounds like something I'd consider. I like the fact that I can buy it at a regular store like Walgreens rather than only through the mail. I'm kind of leary about giving out credit card information over the internet or to some company in Asia. I'll check it out. When I woke up this morning my hips and lower back felt like I had knives stuck in them. It takes a while to work it out. I feel better in the evening than I do in the morning.

[Art]

I believe the evidence we have for reincarnation is real enough, I just believe that the evidence can be interpreted in different ways.

It's sort of like the "being of light" in near death experiences. Christians, like Betty Eadie will swear that the being of light they encountered was Jesus, while someone who is a Muslim might say it was Mohammed, or if they are a Buddhist might say it was the Buddha. I believe there was definitely a "being of light" only after they come back they sit and stew on it and analyze their experience and think to themselves "I'm sure that it was Jesus!"

People a long time ago had children who had these memories and they tried to figure out what they meant, and their conclusion was that it must mean that the child really was that person when in fact it might be just the memories that are reincarnated and not the actual soul of that person.

I'm very suspicious of the whole separate soul thing anyway. Because we live in the holographic projection - the "place of separation" we think of everything as being separate - but that may not be entirely accurate.

So, the evidence is real - but our interpretation of it isn't exact?

[Bruce Siegel]

"I feel better in the evening than I do in the morning."

Art, is it possible that your pain is made worse by your bed or mattress? I have lower back pain at times, and recently I realized that I was feeling worse in the morning than at night. So I began sleeping on a firmer surface, and now I feel fine in the morning.

I also doing a stretching and strengthening routine for my back that makes all the difference in the world.

[Art]

Oh I'm sure that our mattress is too soft but it is a King sized mattress and not that old (4 years) and I'm so cheap that I can't bring myself to trash it just because I think I "might" be better off with a more firm mattress.

I'm retired and living on a small pension and small distributions from my IRA until social security kicks in at age 62 - which is 4 and half years away. Another words I can't afford to just go out and buy a new mattress just to try it out and see.

Mostly I'm curious about all my theories about life after death to see if I'm anywhere near being right - and if the afterlife is anywhere near as good as some of the NDE experiences that I've read say it is - then it's going to be really really awesome.

excerpt from Mark H's NDE:
"All that I saw and felt was as if something was filling my mind with answers, before I could even ask the question. The presence of god was in all things. It was as though the promise of being filled, and overflowing. What your soul desired to see, was filled at that very moment. Everything that your soul needed was met before it could be asked. There is no distance here. So time does not exist. What your soul desires it is! All you desire to know is done! You are filled with the spirit! And you know it! I had never experienced such a feeling of satisfaction in my life."
http://www.nderf.org/mark_h%27s_nde.htm