« On the road | Main | Double, double, toil and trouble »

Comments

Very interesting read!.

Excellent interview, MP. Another interesting psi website to add to my bookmarks. And thanks for plugging Charles Drayton Thomas's "An Amazing Experiment" - the best psychic detective story I ever read. :)

A very interesting blog by JIME - thanks for that Michael.

An excellent interview which puts over your views succinctly.

Your writing is readable at all times and in all places, because you are just so darned affable... I also appreciate the too-rare opportunity to use the word 'affable' :-D

I agree with Zerdini and Wax Frog - easy to read, nicely understated and well-reasoned enough to (almost) convince a skeptic.

Jime's website is good and I bet ZC likes it too ;-)

“A DNA molecule contains at least as much information as a set of encyclopedias, and no one thinks the encyclopedias arose by chance”

This is a good point Michael. I thought the interview went very well. Nice to see Ginny back and commenting.

As far as the comment that it will almost convince a skeptic well that I am not so sure about. Ultra skeptics have too much to lose to accept any evidence or even just one example of the paranormal. Their beliefs reside on a very slippery slope.

As far as the comment that it will almost convince a skeptic well that I am not so sure about. - william
---------------------------------

It's called "confirmation bias." We tend to ignore information that doesn't jibe with our current world view. Probably why paradigms take so long to change. We only see what we want to see.

“It's called "confirmation bias." We tend to ignore information that doesn't jibe with our current world view. Probably why paradigms take so long to change. We only see what we want to see.”

I find that an interesting comment coming from you Art because I believe that many suspect you of having confirmation bias with your NDE’s and holographic universe comments. I also suspect many think I have such bias also with my ignorance and awareness comments.

Also what I find interesting is how much easier it is to believe we can see others confirmation bias but not our own. The human mind is truly a fascinating phenomenon. In a strange way I think it is much easier to see others bias than our own. The mind is very adept at self-confirming its beliefs in spite of the evidence.

I suspect that self-confirming our beliefs in spite of the evidence brings some kind of mental comfort to the ego and supports the ego’s fragile belief that it is a completely separate and intelligent identity. I have noticed as souls advance into these higher realms of existence they believe less and less that they are totally separate from this Cosmic Awareness that most call God.

Great interview.

Just as an OT, this article was very interesting. I plucked it from the Schwartz Report.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090715131449.htm

I find that an interesting comment coming from you Art because I believe that many suspect you of having confirmation bias with your NDE’s and holographic universe comments. - william
-------------------------------------------

It's as plain as the nose on my face. I am sorry that there are some who are either too ignorant, blind, or deficient to see it.

"If the GEO600 result is what I suspect it is, then we are all living in a giant cosmic hologram." - Craig Hogan, physicist at Fermi Lab Batavia, Illinois
http://blog.nj.com/njv_fausta_wertz/2009/01/weird_science_news_headline_of.html

"I literally had the feeling that I was everywhere in the universe simultaneously." - excerpt from Mark Horton's NDE, http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/markh.html

"I was given more than just the answers to my questions; all knowledge unfolded to me, like the instant blossoming of an infinite number of flowers all at" - excerpt from Beverly Brodsky's NDE,
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/judaism02.html

"I learned that we are all connected, all things are connected. .... When I was having my experience, I felt connected to everything." - excerpt from Michelle M's NDE,
http://nderf.org/michelle_m%27s_nde.htm

Italics off

Hey, William (and everyone)!

I've never gone anywhere. Always here lurking and reading. It's just that the few times I think of anything intelligent to add to the conversation, I usually find someone beats me to it. :-)

I particularly liked the linked books:
"There are many good books online also, including Death-Bed Visions, by William Barrett; An Amazing Experiment, by Charles Drayton Thomas; The Survival of Man, by Oliver Lodge; and The Road to Immortality and Beyond Human Personality, both by Geraldine Cummins. Web sites with good collections include Survival After Death, Spirit Writings, and Survival E-Books ."

“It's as plain as the nose on my face. I am sorry that there are some who are either too ignorant, blind, or deficient to see it.”

It is also as plain as the nose on the ultra skeptics faces. I.e. the ultra skeptics belief that materialism can explain all phenomena. They also often state that others are ignorant, blind, or deficient that do not see what they see.

It is also as plain as the nose on the atheist’s faces that the brain creates consciousness even when they are unable to explain consciousness. My point being calling others ignorant, blind, or deficient may not be the most productive way of self-discovery.

"I was given more than just the answers to my questions; all knowledge unfolded to me, like the instant blossoming of an infinite number of flowers all at" - excerpt from Beverly Brodsky's NDE,”

I would like to meet any person that believes they now have all knowledge.

"I would like to meet any person that believes they now have all knowledge." - william
----------------------

They had "all knowledge" while on the other side, in the spiritual universe, not in the physical universe.

"It is also as plain as the nose on the atheist’s faces ..."

Very true. I could add that it's as plain as the nose on the fundamentalist Christian's face that the Bible is inerrant. Ever see those bumper stickers that say, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"? I doubt any nonbelievers have ever been convinced by that argument.

There are many good reasons to question the holographic universe theory. For one thing, most NDEs are not of the "holographic" type. For another, virtually no mediumistic communications support this theory. Reincarnation evidence also seems to contradict it.

To maintain the holographic theory, one must focus exclusively on a handful of NDEs that seem to have a "holographic" flavor, while dismissing the rest of them, along with virtually all channeled messages and reincarnation studies. In other words, one must cherry-pick the evidence that's consistent with the desired conclusion. I'm afraid this really is "confirmation bias."

Moreover, the theory itself is pretty vague; it seems to be more like a metaphor than an actual explanation. After all, a real hologram is produced by directing a focused beam of light at a wave-interference pattern. If the universe is a hologram, what is the beam of light that decodes it? God? Human consciousness? Something else?

To qualify as an actual theory, the idea would have to be testable, but how can anyone test it? What would we test? How could it ever be disproven? If a theory is not (in principle) disprovable, then it's not a theory at all.

This is not to say the idea has no merit, but like any metaphor or analogy, it can't be pressed too far or it falls apart. I thought Michael Talbot's book "The Holographic Universe" was interesting - I read it twice - but I don't think it's the complete and final answer. If that makes me ignorant, blind and/or deficient, so be it.

In Dr. Kenneth Ring's book, Life At Death, read chapter 12, pages 218-252. Perhaps he explains it better than I can. There are also several pages in Dr. Melvin Morris's book Where God Lives devoted to the connection between NDE's and the holographic universe theory.

The story of the lost children of the Alleghenies. Read the captions that go along with the story. This life is all about experiencing separation, in every way, shape, and form imaginable, and the most profound and emotional kind of separation is losing someone you love.

Jacobs Dream, By: Alison Krauss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj1p22kW5Xs

God is in control, even when we don't believe it.

Art responds to critisism that he only responds to texts that support his beliefs by referring to some texts that support his beliefs.

Who can argue with that? ;)

PS. I'm not being snarky, but having read the entire blog back archives, I've been seeing this pattern repeated for quite a long time.

PPS. Keep up the good work all. I find this to be one of the better "pro-paranormal without being batshit insane" sources to read on the internet.

“Art responds to critisism that he only responds to texts that support his beliefs by referring to some texts that support his beliefs. Who can argue with that? ;)”

I am trying hard not to respond in a critical way but as a dialog but I suspect that is difficult to do. Many of Art’s statements do match what spirits are telling us from the other side and what so called enlightened masters tell us and what the mystics tell us. I.e. the oneness of the universe and life, we are here to learn lessons, etc.

When I was doing my research into Christianity many Christian layman and scholars alike stated to me that I must read C S Lewis’s book Mere Christianity. Many stated that he would prove that Christian beliefs are valid and that he once was an atheist but after his research he came to see Christianity as the one true religion or something to that effect. Of course what they did not state was he was raised Christian. That fact is a significant variable from my point of view.

Well I read the book and it started off pretty good but then I begin (if my memory serves me right) to see that his proof turned out to be how the New Testament and the Old Testament were correlated. That the Old Testament knew a savior was coming and Jesus fulfilled that prophecy.

Wow! There are so many holes in Lewis’s research methods and his “proof” it would take a book to explain all of them. It appears that Lewis went on to write several other books on love and God that were well received by the Christian community. Truth can be degrees of truth because it appears Lewis’s Christian faith served him well later in life.
He was raised a Christian and how often do we see our childhood beliefs influence our adult beliefs even if the person rejected those beliefs for many years.

My point is we tend to pick books that support our beliefs. When I read a book that supports my beliefs I can feel throughout my entire body a warm fuzzy feeling. It just feels good to have someone confirm our cherished beliefs and who does not have cherished beliefs.

I spent much time years past blogging with atheists and ultra skeptics on the net and what I noticed was how little time they spent reading anything outside of their cherished beliefs. Most will not even admit to having cherished beliefs. Some will not even admit to having beliefs. They feel they are completely open-minded. The very term open minded is an “oxymoron”.

"The very term open minded is an “oxymoron”."

If only we could all remember that when we comment on things from our “open minded” perspective

Art responds to critisism that he only responds to texts that support his beliefs by referring to some texts that support his beliefs. Who can argue with that? ;)
- Breanainn

--------------------------------------------

Disagreeing and arguing on message boards is just one more way to experience separation. The more emotional the experience the more powerful and long lasting the memory it creates.

So my soul thanks you for that lesson.

"In Dr. Kenneth Ring's book, Life At Death, read chapter 12, pages 218-252."

I just dug out my copy of this book and reread that chapter. Art is right that it's well worth reading and contains many interesting insights. I will try to put up a blog post about it before long.

I just dug out my copy of this book and reread that chapter. Art is right that it's well worth reading and contains many interesting insights. - Michael Prescott
-------------------------------------------

When Dr. Ken Ring taught a course at the University of Connecticut on Near Death Experiences part of the course requirements for students were were to read The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot.

“The more emotional the experience the more powerful and long lasting the memory it creates.”

If as you say that reincarnation does not exist those long lasting memories would have to be very long. I.e. like eternal. Life on the other side is not just about memories in fact many spirits talk about forgetting many if not most of their memories that they had here on earth.

How many memories would a baby have that passed over at two days old? Life is an on going process not about living from memories. Living off of memories can be very self-defeating and full of what if’s.

Most mystics advocate living in the here and now and not entertaining memories as we can get attached to them.

Now I will agree that an emotional experience can have a significant effect on our consciousness and often cause us to rethink our existing mode of being in the world. The process of life is experiences whether in this physical life or in the astral world or even worlds beyond.

In fact a conscious entity (soul) must express itself and have experiences. It does not have the freedom not to express itself.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=59223213350926692

An interesting video of Talbot on the show thinking allowed. 28 min.

He also has a book entitled “your past lives”. I don’t remember Art mentioning that Talbot has written a book on reincarnation. That is the power of the mind. The mind knows how to pick and choose data subconsciously that supports its beliefs. I.e. the paradigm effect.

How many memories would a baby have that passed over at two days old? - william
----------------------------------

We don't live for just ourselves. All knowledge means ALL knowledge. All information is shared on the other side. What one knows we will all know. In a holographic universe everything is infinitely interconnected with everything else; everything interpenetrates everything.

excerpt from Randy Gehling's NDE:
"That was really cool! I kind of felt as though my body exploded - in a nice way - and became a million different atoms - and each single atom could think its own thoughts and have its own feelings. All at once I seemed to feel like I was a boy, a girl, a dog, a cat, a fish. Then I felt like I was an old man, an old woman - and then a little tiny baby."
http://near-death.com/experiences/animals04.html

He also has a book entitled “your past lives”. I don’t remember Art mentioning that Talbot has written a book on reincarnation. - william
--------------------------------------------

Past lives? Billions, perhaps trillions of them. All knowledge means all knowledge. It's a connectedness and oneness thing. Why limit it to just the Earth? The physical universe is a big place. There could be millions of inhabitable planets with intelligent life on them. I reiterate, in a holographic universe everything interpenetrates everything, everything is infinitely interconnected. What one knows, we will all know.

"What one knows, we will all know."

I don't think Kenneth Ring was endorsing this take on the holographic theory in the chapter I read. He doesn't say anything about NDErs acquiring all knowledge or experiencing oneness with the universe. He does talk about an NDEr achieving oneness with his higher self, but this part of his discussion does not involve holography.

"in a holographic universe everything interpenetrates everything, everything is infinitely interconnected"

Statements like this seem to derive from the often-repeated claim that every smallest part of a hologram contains all information about the whole. Trouble is, this claim is not true. What is true is that every part of the hologram contains *some* information about the whole.

If you snip out a small piece of a holographic plate and expose it to a focused light beam, you will see the entire image, but only from a certain angle. It will be fuzzier than the complete hologram (lacking detail) and it will show only one perspective (unlike a complete hologram, which shows the object from a range of perspectives).

So if we are going to use the hologram as a metaphor, we would have to say that each of us has *some* knowledge, but none of us has *all* knowledge. Or we might say that each of us has a fuzzy view of reality as seen from one perspective, but none of us has a crystal-clear view of reality as seen from all perspectives.

“So if we are going to use the hologram as a metaphor, we would have to say that each of us has *some* knowledge, but none of us has *all* knowledge”

If each of us had “all knowledge” there would be no us, just Isness, or that that is, or infinite oneness or cosmic consciousness or well you get the picture. I would use the word God but God has been given such human qualities. I.e. Wrath, anger, jealousy, etc.

It is our “some knowledge” that makes us who we are. I.e. unique souls with unique views of reality. Taking some liberty from Emmanuel’s book one we humans are perfectly imperfect.

From my point of view pure awareness goes through an involution process to create consciousness and consciousness goes through an evolutionary process. Every living organism is going through this evolutionary process.

We humans are an expression of that evolutionary process. Some maybe most would say we humans are a very poor example of this evolutionary process but then we tend to judge by appearances. Seeing the underlying reality of these appearances may be one of the “keys” to not having to have a return trip to earth.

Art-
Are you willing to take the notion of the hologram as a metaphor, or do you see it as more actual than that?
If the notion of hologram is metaphor, can you give me an example of where the metaphor fails?

Italics off.

Of course it's not a "real" hologram exactly like we have here on the Earth, but it bears many of the characteristics that Michael Talbot says one might expect in a holographic universe. If it looks like a pig, smells like a pig, and tastes like a pig - it's probably a pig.

I used to teach 9th grade Physical Science. I know how a hologram is made and how it is generated. In fact I lived in East Tennessee close to the Museum of Science and Industy in Oak Ridge, Tennessee for 24 years; and in the museum they actually have a machine that generates a holographic image of a ball floating around in space. If you try and grab the ball your hand passes right through it!

In the online essay that is floating around the internet about the holographic universe theory Talbot explains how a hologram is made and generated. How a laser is used to scan a material object and then stores the information on a holographic plate.

"Where it breaks down?"
The problem is that I'm not sure there is any "material" object to be scanned? I can't figure that one out. It's sort of like that old fable about "it's turtles all the way down." Perhaps there is some kind of feedback mechanism where consciousness iteself generates the image. I just don't know. All I can do is speculate.

Art-
thank-you.
Am I correct to say that the holographic universe is an analogy to Bohmian physics? (Or perhaps vice versa)
If so, then don't we end up with a universe that is essentially consciousness and the scale is from fully conscious to fully unconscious (the extreme ends not manifest in our realm)?
That is to say 'it's turtles all the way down', if I get your meaning.

Why can't we break out of the italics?

Yes, it's my understanding that it was David Bohm and Karl Pribam who first came up with the analogy of the holographic nature of the universe and the holographic brain. Michael Talbot wrote a book where he carried it even further and used the holographic universe to explain paranormal phenomena, including NDEs.

Wasn't it Sir James Jeans who made the statement that the Universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine? Or something to that effect?

I'm not having any problem with italics? It looks like normal type to me?

Turtles all the way down? From Wikipedia:

The most widely known version appears in Stephen Hawking's 1988 book A Brief History of Time, which starts:

“ A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

I'm not seeing any italics either. Probably it depends on the browser you're using. I use Internet Explorer 7.

However, I'll log on to TypePad and see if I can fix the problem.

Okay, I did something. For those who saw italics before: Are they off now?

Yep, they're off now.

“If so, then don't we end up with a universe that is essentially consciousness and the scale is from fully conscious to fully unconscious (the extreme ends not manifest in our realm)?”

Could we also state that we could call this the involution (full unawareness) and evolution (full awareness) process? Now what is the source of vitality and intelligence that makes these “two” processes function? For lack of a better term could we call this source God? Also is this the source that gives us this substance we call matter that can “deceive” the greatest of our scientists?

The idea that the source of this material universe came from a substance the size of a pinhead and then bang we have an expanding universe that is so large the human mind cannot comprehend its size. I would think that materialists would have a very hard time excepting such a belief.

Could the big bang be just a thought (Jeans)? I have noticed that some materialists have passed the buck so to speak and decided it was another universe that created this universe (more turtles). And of course for some materialists it was life forms from another planet that created conscious life forms on this planet and that solves the God or hard problem.

Can you learn to drive a car just by reading a manual or even watching video of someone else driving a car? No, you have to develop the motor skills to do it. Can you learn to swim just by someone telling you how to do it? No, you can't. Can you learn to ride a bike just by reading about it? No, you can't.

If I were writing a book and in that book I wanted to explain what an olive tastes like could I find enough adjectives to describe that olive to where you wouldn't need to eat an olive to know how one tastes? No, the only way to really know what an olive tastes like is to put it in your mouth and taste it for yourself. That metaphor pretty much includes anything we eat while we are alive.

What about making love? Is it enough to read about it in a book, or even watch a DVD of two people making love to where one could say "I know what it feels like to make love to another person because I watched a video of two people making love." No, it's not enough. The only way one can really know what it feels like to make love to another person is to have done it.

When a baby is born it waves it's arms around and has to learn to control it's physical body. Then when it's a little older it crawls and starts exploring the world by putting everything it comes into contact with in it's mouth. It learns about the world by touch, sound, sight, taste, and hearing.

Our body is like a workbook that the soul uses to learn about the physical universe. The teacher knows what is in the workbook, and the publisher and writer know what is in the workbook, but the student doesn't. A fifth grade student learns as it goes through the workbook the lessons that the writer and publisher intended for the student to learn. The student doesn't understand or know what it's supposed to learn until it gets to that lesson.

The soul uses the body to learn about the physical universe and then when it is finished with it, it cast it off like an old suit of clothes. Perhaps in a similar way to how an elementary student dumps their old workbook in the trash can on their way out of school for summer vacation. Maybe it's no coincidence that Spiritualists call Heaven "The Summerlands!"

I am a spiritual being having a physical experience. The only way my soul can know what it means and how it feels to live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe to live in it, and the only way my soul can learn about time and space is to experience it; and the only way my soul can learn about what it means to be separated is to experience separation.

Perhaps we separate off from God and become separate unique individuals in a similar way that we separate from our parents. Perhaps one is modeled on the other.

Personal experience constantly contradicts theory.

I take a similar view, Art.

“Maybe it's no coincidence that Spiritualists call Heaven "The Summerlands!"

This may not be a valid statement as the Summerland’s might be considered the third ream by the spiritualist’s books I have read, whereas what realm is heaven is still debatable. Some spirits say the fifth realm some say seventh realm for heaven. What they tend to agree upon is that each higher realm is more of a “heaven” like environment. I.e. more joy, bliss, compassion, creative intelligence, wisdom, etc.

But the Summerland’s is much more of a heavenly environment or at least our perception of heaven than the physical world is for most souls. It would be very easy for a person that has experienced an NDE to think that Summerland was heaven. These lower realms which earth is considered a lower realm appears to be where most of the suffering and violence occurs.

The “price” of having a personal identity appears to be very high but most spirits have taught that that price is worth it especially when they attain the joy and bliss in these higher realms. It appears that a soul does not have the freedom to choose not to express itself. I.e. free will has limitations.

“the only way my soul can learn about time and space is to experience it;”

Why would a soul need to learn time and space if a soul resides in a timeless realm? Souls when they cross over tell us that they start to forget many of the memories of their earthy lives. Memories do not develop the soul; experiences followed by realizations are the stuff of soul development. Knowledge gained from these experiences may be a prerequisite for a realization to occur.

From my point of view nature is an incubator for soul development. The origin or the born date of a soul is still a hot topic for debate. It appears that there is an evolutionary process occurring for each individual soul and the soul passes though these different levels or realms as the soul advances or increases its vibration level.

So the earth is not a place a new soul decided to incarnate, but a necessary realm to advance its vibration level. This may be different for a more mature soul that may come back to earth to learn lessons and advance its vibration level. This vibration level may be due to the soul’s ability to love self and others and its level of divine intelligence or wisdom. Not intellectual knowledge (smart) but divine intelligence.

“Perhaps we separate off from God and become separate unique individuals in a similar way that we separate from our parents. Perhaps one is modeled on the other.”

It is an interesting model. Is nature designed to mimic the mind of God? I have had these thoughts even as a child that if we fully realized even a small portion of nature we may indeed understand the mind of God. I.e. could it be that simple?

Why would a soul need to learn time and space if a soul resides in a timeless realm? - william
--------------------------------------------

If floating around in a timeless and spaceless void for eternity is your idea of heaven then have at it! As for me personally? That sounds a bit more like hell.

I prefer the Heaven that Mark Horton describes in his NDE description:

"I was pure intellect, absorbing information and knowledge through "sensors" or means that I have no concept of. From this vantage point, I had to merely think of a place and time and I was there, experiencing everything about the place and time and people present.

I have always, I don't know why, had a very strong "pull" toward Scotland. I have some Scottish ancestry, but no more so than English, Swedish, and Prussian, but I don't know why I have such a strong affinity for the land, its history, its culture, and the music. (No sound in this world can stir the feelings that the sound of bagpipes arise in me!) Well, one of my first "trips" was to Scotland, on a high cliff overlooking a grey, crashing sea during a violent thunderstorm. I was there! I could feel the wind lashing at me and the driving force of the rain while I could see and hear the crashing of the thunder and the sea. All I had done was have the mearest fleeting thought of the land and I was there! As I've said, I have no idea why I have such a strong tie to that particular piece of space/time.

I next thought of warm sunshine and I was in a place of bright warm light and comfort. I could discern nothing but a comforting brightness around me (such that "me" was... I still had no "body" that I remember, but had the "feeling" that I was an amorphous, glowing pure intellect... all sensors and no tangi- ble gross physical body to drag me down or contain me. It was a truly wonderful feeling? state? being? Words just don't exist to describe this.) This was very pleasant and comforting and went on for microseconds or billions of years, I have no idea since time just wasn't an operative construct and had no meaning or relevance to existence. I literally had the feeling that I was everywhere in the universe simultaneously."
http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/markh.html

The only way to full understand and "grok" something is to have experienced it. If you have never experienced time and space you wouldn't have a clue what it felt like. There is no way to adequately describe it to where someone could understand it if they had never experienced if for themselves. That's the whole purpose of life. We are spiritual beings having a physical experience.

“If floating around in a timeless and spaceless void for eternity is your idea of heaven then have at it! As for me personally? That sounds a bit more like hell.”

Timelessness appears to be very much what a “spirit” learns to adjust to in most of these other realms. The memories of time fade with of all things time. The exception may be what some refer to as earth bound or Hades conditions. As far as a spaceless void I don’t remember reading that any spirit states they are floating around in a spaceless void. In fact most talk of beauty that far surpasses anything we have on earth. Especially in the flowers and music environment.

“Well, one of my first "trips" was to Scotland, on a high cliff overlooking a grey, crashing sea during a violent thunderstorm. I was there!”

Sounds like a past life to me; or your soul could be traveling while you sleep. But then why would you soul want to travel to Scotland and that area while you slept if it did not have memories of that country and area.

“I have no idea since time just wasn't an operative construct and had no meaning or relevance to existence”

This is why I don’t think we need to learn about time it tends to be somewhat meaningless on the other side. Why have memories of it? Now time is needed to sequence events or experiences that allows the soul to express itself. Our expression is God’s expression. We have no choice but to express ourselves. I.e. we cannot opt out of expression. Even when we sleep we are expressing.

Maybe the lower the vibration level the more we experience time as a reality. The earth being one of the lower vibration levels of existence therefore time is perceived as an absolute reality. Now from these experiences as expressions sequenced in time we have the opportunity to advance in love and intelligence. What would life be like if we did not advance? Hades?

“We are spiritual beings having a physical experience.”

Well Art we can agree on this phase. Beings of course with a capital B. Also it appears that the maturity of the soul and its vibration level has something to do with a soul’s ability to travel mentality to not only other areas of the astral world they reside in but to visit other higher and lower realms of existence.

The book I am now rereading this former nun (who left the church after 25 years) was able to travel to both lower realms and higher realms for short periods of time. A nazi who had tortured and killed people was in the lower realm and she met doctors who were passionate about healing people in the physical world in the higher realms. The nazi’s condition in the lower realm was due to his own self-judgment after he crossed over. He was unable to forgive himself after he crossed over and saw his mistakes on earth.

Hey Art, suppose you were deprived of Mark Horton's NDE and/or discovered it was fake.

Would you go into a state of holographic shock?

It's a lot more likely that all that schlock that comes out of Medium's mouths about different levels and vibrations and reincarnation is hooey than Mark Horton's NDE being fake. Mark Horton's NDE is just one of thousands I've read. There are a plethora of NDE's that basically paint the same picture. Different levels and vibrations and reincarnation is just humans trying to describe something they don't understand. It's a made up story that doesn't make any sense.

“There are a plethora of NDE's that basically paint the same picture.”

Change the words near death experiences to spirits communicating and it paints the same picture.

“It's a lot more likely that all that schlock that comes out of Medium's mouths about different levels and vibrations and reincarnation is hooey than Mark Horton's NDE being fake.”

I do not believe Mark Horton’s NDE was fake. He experienced it and it was a profound experience but it was a snapshot of another reality. I suspect it totally changed how he lived his life when he returned to this reality.

As far as different vibrations and levels it makes sense to me if one begins to understand the law of progress or the evolution of consciousness. The journey is the progress. From unawareness to infinite awareness.

I started out very much a skeptic with spirit communications through mediums but with enough research it appears to be so. It takes a ton of research from my point of view to reach that it is possible for the other side to communicate through mediums. Low-level ability mediums and fraud does not help matters in this type of research.

You may believe that what I was discovering about spirit communication was heart warming to me but it was mentality painful. Like Art I bought into the no Hades scenario for a while with the life between life hypnosis teachings. Earth bound spirits, evil spirits, levels of Hades, and spirit possession did not make my day.

Evidence is evidence and almost always it is painful to accept. Our minds are very deceptive. One only has to look at religious creeds and beliefs and political and economic ideologies to see this self-deception in action. Dr Hora calls these phenomena “self confirmatory ideation”.

Sometime new even new discoveries can be mentally painful.

“Would you go into a state of holographic shock?”
Oh Barbara you are the humorous one aren’t you.

One wonders what kind of humor you would have if I discover some day that my discovery into the origin of ignorance is invalid? :-)

I gotta say Art, the evidence for reincarnation is pretty solid. Maybe you should look into it a little bit more even if it doesn't fit with your current worldview.

I gotta say Art, the evidence for reincarnation is pretty solid. Maybe you should look into it a little bit more even if it doesn't fit with your current worldview. Posted by: Sam
--------------------------------------------

Like I've said many many times before... I believe the evidence is real. I just think the story that we've made up to go along with the evidence is wrong. Reincarnation is just a word. It's a story that humans have made up to explain the evidence. I believe there are other explanations that are better. If there is no time nor space in the Spiritual universe than "reincarnation" becomes something else entirely. What about the myriad of other worlds in the Universe? What limits us to just lives on Earth? Why just people? I believe there are even other sentient beings on earth like whales, dolphins, elephants, apes, and perhaps even monkeys?

I'm fairly certain it's got something to do with those overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness, the "holographic-ness" of the Universe, and perhaps the way our brains are designed to be recievers and transmitters of information. Once a child develops it's own sense of self those memories quickly fade (at about age 7). And when a hypnotized adult wakes up those memories are turned off. Something else entirely is going on; and I'm fairly certain it's not "reincarnation" - at least not the way most people think of it.

The comments to this entry are closed.