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wow. that's sound way too good to be good! michael, do u know if there's any medical records or if this case was ever reported in any journal? i read many cases of miraculous healing, but this one is unique because it happened over a period of time and where different parts were healed at different times... it's one thing to read about a patient be cured of lupus through supernatural mean (and have medical tests to prove it), and it's another to have different symptoms/conditions be treated/cured over a period of time. if this case gets reported in a medical journal then it would be quite a strong case.

also, have you read 'the scalpel and the soul' The Scalpel and the Soul i think it's a good read too, but one thing i didnt like was the fact that it borrowed pam reynold's case and put it in the book as someone else..

do u know if there's any medical records or if this case was ever reported in any journal?

I don't know. Hutton's book struck me as very convincing, but it's not a peer-reviewed paper or anything. Then again, I'm sufficiently persuaded by the general evidence for the paranormal that I no longer feel the need for double-blind, peer-reviewed, meta-analyzed scientific studies (not that there's anything wrong with them).

I haven't read The Scalpel and the Soul. I did hear about the Pam Reynolds thing, and it bothered me too.


I have little confidence in stories that emerge from the British spiritualist movement. The British spiritualists have been known to fictionalize "miracle" stories when it comes to mediums.

How little you know, Marcel!

The story of George Chapman is one of the most extraordinary in the history of mediumship.

I knew George Chapman very well and I can assure readers that he was one of the most extraordinary healers I've ever met and I've met a few!

William Lang the doctor who worked through George Chapman had been an eye surgeon at the famous Moorfields Eye Hospital in London.

When the news spread that he was said to be operating through George Chapman many of Lang's former colleagues came to Chapman to expose this phoney medium but went away when Lang recognised them and greeted them by name.

Members of Lang's family who were still on earth also came and were recognised and greeted by Lang and confirmed that it was indeed him.

A group of doctors set up a trust so that Chapman could work for them without any financial worries which he did for many years treating the patients they sent him and achieving remarkable results.

He is the only medium I know who was accorded an obituary in The Daily Telegraph - see extract : "George Chapman, who died on August 9 aged 85, was said to be one of Britain's most remarkable healers; for 60 years he treated patients from all walks of life, including celebrities and members of the medical profession, by going into a state of trance and allowing the spirit of William Lang to "operate" through him."
Full details are on the Daily Telegraph’s website 12/8/2006.

If you believe this, do you believe the Gospels?

I wasn't around at the time of the Gospels but I did know George Chapman and also received healing from Dr Lang so I write from experience not hearsay.

If you believe this, do you believe the Gospels?

I do think Jesus was a healer, yes. Of course this does not necessarily make him the unique incarnation of God, any more than George Chapman was the unique incarnation of God. I'm not sure Jesus ever made this claim for himself.

But I do think Jesus was an extraordinarily advanced spiritual master. I have a very high opinion of his teachings and have read more than a hundred books on the subject of Christianity. My favorite author in this field is N.T. Wright, by the way.

also received healing from Dr Lang

I didn't know this, Z. Care to share, or is it too personal? (If it's private info, forget I asked.)

According to Wikipedia "celebrities such as Laurence Harvey, Stanley Holloway,Patricia Neal, Barbara Cartland and Roald Dahl were among those seeking his help."

If this is the case, then quite a lot ought to have been written about him. Does anybody know of any sources other than Michael's? Furthermore, was he ever put to the test by anyone with a scientific background?

Hi Michael

I have never published this before but I arranged an appointment with George Chapman as I had problems with my wrist in that I was unable to lift even a kettle.

I had been referred by my doctor to a specialist at the local hospital who wanted to operate so I decided to see George Chapman before I made a decision.

George was in trance when I walked into his healing room but even though his eyes were closed he moved about the room with complete ease.

He shook my hand and asked me to lay down on the couch. Without touching me he said the synovial fluid was very dry and that was what was causing the pain.

He made some clicking noises over my wrist and said that I would be fine. In response to my questions about the clicking noises he said that he was surrounded and helped by other doctors and nurses, who he named, and that he was working in a fully equipped operating theatre.

The whole healing took no more than a few minutes and I felt no improvement at all until the next day when my wrist was back to normal and has remained so for the last 15 years.
I was not charged a cent.

In answer to Larry Boy there is a tremendous amount of material about George Chapman.

As I said earlier he was tested by other doctors who set up a trust to enable him to treat their patients free of charge.

Very interesting, Zerdini. Thank you very much for sharing this experience with us.

You can read the Telegraph obituary here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1526133/George-Chapman.html

Michael

I am curious about your comment regarding the teachings of Jesus - I guess you're referring to the Gospels which I think it is fair to say many view (with some justification) as a politically constructed document engineered to enforce church policy and contain little, if any, actually teachings from Jesus. Or are you referring simply to some of the principles contained in the Gospels?

I thought you guys might be interested to know that there's a new interview with psychic detective Noreen Reiner on Skeptiko released today:

http://www.skeptiko.com/audio/skeptiko-2008-09-16-41743.mp3

The host Alex Tsakiris begins by examining a skeptical investigation by Ben Radford. Very interesting.

(Note that although the name of the show is Skeptiko, it argues that the paranormal is true.)

Larry Boy, thanks for alerting everyone to the new episode of Skeptiko, but as a former guest on the show, and an acquaintance of Alex Tsakiris, I have to correct you on your comment that skeptiko, "argues that the paranormal is true."

Skeptiko's mission is to bring skeptics and psi proponents together and create dialog that is non-combative and in line with the role of scientific investigation. Alex created the show because there was this skeptical mantra that "there is no evidence for psychic phenomenon, when in fact there is much evidence for it, though not wholly conclusive.

More importantly, there is a big difference between the word "paranormal" and the word, "parapsychology."

The paranormal includes UFOlogy, Cryptozoology, stigmata, and countless other fortean phenomena. Alex tsakiris is only focused on psi studies that deal with consciousness outer limits, both human and animal.

Just thought I would clear that up a bit. :-)

I guess you're referring to the Gospels which I think it is fair to say many view (with some justification) as a politically constructed document engineered to enforce church policy and contain little, if any, actually teachings from Jesus. Or are you referring simply to some of the principles contained in the Gospels?

I'm referring primarily to the synoptic Gospels. I don't buy the argument that these were constructed merely to advance the church's agenda. I think they are a reasonably reliable record of Jesus' ministry, though people will argue forever about the details. No doubt each of the three synoptics views Jesus through a particular lens, but his basic teachings seem to have been preserved.

I am much less confident in the reliability of the Gospel of John, which appears to be more of an intellectual reflection on Jesus' ministry than a documentary record.

Of course, none of the Gospels is a biography in the modern sense. Allowances have to be made for the context in which they were written. I think the birth and infancy narratives in Matthew and Luke were intended as symbolism. Some of the miracle stories seem to have been inspired by the feats of Elijah and Elisha.

Regardless of these quibbles, I find the character of Jesus to be authentic and inspiring.

Your mileage may vary ...

Michael, is there any book by N.T. Wright that you'd specially recommend?

I'm agnostic regarding the Christian God, but I have interest about Jesus' (and other spiritual men) teachings.

In Christian websites, I've read something about the good work of N.T. Wright (it seems that some atheist scholars have good opinions too about N.T. Wright's writtings and research).

Zerdini, in your experience with George Chapman, did you see cases of instantaneous healings?

Also, did he treat patients with cancer, diabetes or multiple sclerosis? (I mean, with chronic, progressive and "incurable" diseases)

Those diseases can't be "cured" by placebos or suggestion, so I think a healing of them is a strong prima facie evidence for the reality of the phenomenon, and can't be dismissed or debunked easily.

did he treat patients with cancer?

Healing Hands includes at least one account of a woman with cancer who was healed by Chapman/Lang.

Michael, is there any book by N.T. Wright that you'd specially recommend?

It depends on how much information you're looking for. Jesus and the Victory of God is an excellent book, but very long (741 pp.) and detailed. For a shorter version of the same arguments, see The Challenge of Jesus.

Another interesting, nontechnical book is The Meaning of Jesus, in which Marcus Borg (a liberal scholar) and Wright (more conservative) politely debate some of the major themes of New Testament scholarship.

In reply to zetetic chick:

I am unaware of any instantaneous healings but he certainly treated so-called incurable cases.

Many of the cases brought to him by the group of doctors he worked for fell into the categories you mention.

Dr Lang never claimed to be a miracle worker - he was simply a doctor working through the mediumship of Chapman with access to far more facilities for healing than were available on earth.

Very interesting about Dr Lang & Chapman - and good to have it confirmed first-hand by Zerdini.

With regard to Jesus, I wonder if you, Michael, or anyone has thoughts on the books by Freke & Gandy. A couple of years ago I read "The Jesus Mysteries" and "Jesus and the Goddess". At the time they convinced me that Jesus was a Gnostic creation, not a real person. To your knowledge, has anyone succeeded in refuting their persuasive arguments?

A couple of years ago I read "The Jesus Mysteries" and "Jesus and the Goddess".

I read both of those books about ten years ago and found them convincing at first. But later I learned that neither author has any scholarly credentials, and the arguments they make have been widely discounted by academics. If you check their bibliographies, you'll find that they rely mainly on outdated 19th-century documents. One tipoff is that they refer to the Hebrew God as Jehovah, a term that has been passe for decades. (The correct term is Yahweh.)

I find this Web site useful in rebutting such arguments, although I admit that it's written from a strongly Christian perspective.

A critical review of The Jesus Mysteries is here.

Thank you for reply Michael. It is useful to understand your perspective. I wouldn't like to get into a debate about it as frankly I have got much time for Christianity or any other organised religion as such. I suspect that there is as much debate about the origins of the Bible as there is about most other religious issues. Having said that there is a great deal of common sense in some parts of it - as in many other religious books. I do think that given the nature of the organisations having custodianship of it over the centuries it is unlikely to a reliable portrayal of fact and it highly likely to have been interfered with by those in power.

I have recently become interested in the question of whether Jesus's miracles (at least some of them) could have been authentic. Some scholars, including Antony Flew it seems (even though he at the same time appears somewhat undecided), regard the ressurection, for instance, as supported by quite strong historical evidence. These scholars' arguments are interesting, I think, even though I'm not entirely sure what to think about them. (If true, perhaps you could interpret his ressurection as an apparition case, although this wouldn't explain the empty tomb. Another possibility would be teleportation. I'm not sure what to think of this phenomenon, but it has been reported quite a lot of times as far as I can ascertain, especially in the East, I think.)

Anyway, I think it would be interesting if you could perhaps explore this issue in some future post, as you seem to be quite knowledgeable about it. (If you not already have written one or several such posts?)

Marcel: You're right about Skeptiko. My bad ;)

It's a very interesting topic, Larry Boy.

Jesus' paranormal powers didn't seem to be "normal" psi abilities; they seemed to be very developed, more than most people with psi powers.

Some scholars, including Antony Flew it seems (even though he at the same time appears somewhat undecided), regard the ressurection, for instance, as supported by quite strong historical evidence

About Flew and the resurrection topic, see that 2005 interview:

http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf

It's a long interview, but Flew gives his opinion about many topics (including psychical research and near of death experiences)

Thanks Michael for your reading suggestions. Thanks Zerdini too for sharing your experiences.

ZC

I for one believe there was a historical Jesus and much but not all of his teachings are close to what he taught. But like most profound teachings the followers want to change those teachings to fit their paradigms. The bible you can be sure is being changed as we write these words.

We humans like to make our prophets, spiritual masters, and even our gods in our image.

The reason why I believe Jesus existed is that my research into mystics, prophets, advanced spirits, and enlightened Hindus teach very similar teachings. The level of Jesus teachings was and is very highly developed and shows the intelligence of an advanced consciousness. I mean 2000 years later most of his teachings are little understood.

Such as the meek shall inherit the earth at a time the Roman Empire controlled most of the known world. Forgive 70 times 7 and turn the other cheek, god is within you, and the one that I love be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect and you too shall do greater things than I. Never found a Christian preacher preach on that one.

His teachings are very very difficult to live by as most spiritual teachings are. I believe that if he came back and gave the same sermons he gave two thousand years ago the very people that claim to be his followers would reject him. As the intelligence that came through the medium George Wright (the open door) stated the Jesus that most Christians worship did not nor could not exist.

Other books about George Chapman:

"Surgeon From Another World" by George Chapman as told to Roy Stemman

"The Return of Dr. Lang" by S.G.Miron

Not many people are aware that Michael Chapman (George Chapman’s son) is continuing the healing work aided by Dr Lang’s son, Basil.

A book has been published about this work:

MORE THINGS IN HEAVEN AND EARTH: The healing work of Michael Chapman by David J. Nicholls, Dip.RS, B.A.(Hons), M.Phil., Ph.D

I just stumbled across a great website (healingtheriftbook.com) introducing a great book that is going to be available next month- October. Sounds like an interesting book to read.
The book is titled, “Healing the Rift.” In reading through the website I read that the author, Leo Kim, has written about his personal experience of working in a cancer ward. He talks about a healing
he performed and how his scientific evidence shows that both spirituality and science do coexist.

This information comes from an interview Joe Fisher did with the guide of George Chapman in researching his book “Hungry Ghosts” and the interview was with the Spirit of the famous surgeon Dr Lang. George Chapman was probably one of the finest Spiritual Healers and Psychic Surgeons ever. His work is well recorded, documented and there is little doubt it was genuine.

“Joe Fisher was unable to be satisfied as to whether a medium's guides were real people. While much of the geographical and historical information supplied by the entities was amazingly accurate, the claimed identities did not stand up to scrutiny, in his view.”

An extract of answers shows DR Lang saying “Well, I think entities can be traced if you can find first of all a medium who is making genuine contact. I know as much about my life as I did when I was on Earth. You don't forget. One has memory. They talk of their great guides, but when you ask them: "Did you trace your guide?" they say: "Oh, no, no, but he told me he was some famous surgeon. He's using a different name because you see, he doesn't want his family to become involved." Well, surely, when you've passed into this world, you want your family to know where you are. That's what I wanted right away - my daughter and my grandchildren all came to see me . (In fact this is true Lang’s daughter came to debunk Chapman and is now entirely convinced this guide is Lang).”
Now this great Medium George Chapman went on to say "Too many alleged spirit guides do not stand up to critical examination. I believe it is essential for those who develop trance mediumship to ensure that their spirit controls are examined thoroughly to prove their identities. The spirit communicator should speak as near as possible to the way he spoke on earth, using the same phrases and mannerisms and manifesting other personal characteristics. He should be able to give dates, names and details of his earthly experiences that can be verified, and be able to discuss intimate matters with relatives and colleagues still on earth.

All too often, a 'spirit control's' claimed earthly existence is outside the memory of those living, while others deliberately cloak their identities in a shroud of mystery.”

This is so outside acceptable behaviour from any responsible Spirit Guide it brings the “reality” of WCC more into the spotlight.

Very interesting links, Michael –thank you. It does seem that Freke & Gandi were very selective in their sources, some of which look very dubious. If their thesis that St Paul was a Gnostic is false, then the whole non-historical idea loses impetus.

Having said that, some of the objections to the myth idea seem a tad shrill. To suggest that anyone is saying Jesus is a simple “copycat” creation is a bit of a straw man. I can certainly imagine that scholarly Jews, deprived of their own political independence and self-determination by the Romans, might construct a new godman saviour myth from elements of old stories, perhaps starting with a real teacher/healer, perhaps not. I like the idea – it shows human spirit and creativity – and great mythopoeic skill in creating a story that not only outlasted the Roman occupation, but spread across the world in a way that the Romans never could. Whatever the truth, as William suggests, our understanding of Jesus is now mythologized.

LB wrote: "Note that although the name of the show is Skeptiko, it argues that the paranormal is true."

Maybe "skeptiko" is an anagram for skeptic + KO. I.e., KO'ing (knocking out) skeptics.

"Now this great Medium George Chapman went on to say "Too many alleged spirit guides do not stand up to critical examination."

As if it's not bad enough dealing with skeptics and trickster mediums, we also have devious discarnates to deal with. How's a poor girl supposed to find the facts?

Has anyone heard from Michael H? I'm a bit worried about him - he never takes a break this long.

Don't know if anyone has seen this yet

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080910090829.htm

Sounds very interesting.

Has anyone heard from Michael H? I'm a bit worried about him - he never takes a break this long

I thought the same thing. Where is he?

I miss Michael H's commentaries.

“How's a poor girl supposed to find the facts?”

One person’s facts are another person’s ignorance. For about 17 years I have been using a cross validation approach. If several different teachings say similar things then maybe there is something to those teachings. It is not a perfect method but it works the best for me at this time.

Example many of the teachings teach that there is something akin to soul evolution taking place. Also the one “fact” that seems to check out is the word love. Love appears in almost all of the different teachings. A selfless love of course.

Another example past life and between life hypnosis does not check out well with spiritualism and its teachings of astral worlds. And of course we have reincarnation that past life hypnosis appears to support with much evidence but many spirits that come through don’t seem to support reincarnation.

Here is a quote from a spirit from the book the open door speaking of evolution and involution as it relates to time. Evolution and involution are also very much in line with many enlightened Hindu teachings.

“When we view the process of Being in the light of future enfoldment and relate the ultimate to the process in the light of cause under the domain of Time we call it evolution. When the ultimate is looked upon as the effect of the process of Being and Becoming or better the manifestational activity we call this involution.”

From my point of view spiritualism has done the best and worst job of supporting life after death, meaning of life, and purpose of our lives. The best as there is much evidence to support spirits coming though mediums and the worst as fraud and lack of control entered the picture and caused the spiritualist movement to lose much credibility.

I enjoyed the overall post William but I have to say I found the quote a tad impenetrable.. maybe I am just too thick :)

“When we view the process of Being in the light of future enfoldment and relate the ultimate to the process in the light of cause under the domain of Time we call it evolution. When the ultimate is looked upon as the effect of the process of Being and Becoming or better the manifestational activity we call this involution.”

"I dont know if anyone has seen this yet

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080910090829.htm

Sounds very interesting."

It would have been interesting to know what they meant by "successful pilot stage" wouldn't it?

"I enjoyed the overall post William but I have to say I found the quote a tad impenetrable.. Maybe I am just too thick :) "

Its deep very deep but within that one paragraph is so much information.

Cause and effect relationship of evolution and involution.

The relationship of time (sequence) and evolution.

And the necessity of involution to have evolution.

It supports my discovery that unawareness is a necessity to have manifestational activity that most call creation.

William: "It supports my discovery that unawareness is a necessity to have manifestational activity that most call creation."

This evokes in me the image of an infinite jigsaw puzzle, for which pieces keep being (re)discovered. However, it also suggests the futility of the process, since there are no edges or corner pieces.


Has anyone heard from Michael H? I'm a bit worried about him - he never takes a break this long.

I thought the same thing. Where is he?

I'm still here, but just lurking. I've been busy with some projects and haven't had the time or inclination to add much. Thanks for the concern and the comments, though!

:-)

"I'm still here, but just lurking."

Good to hear from you, Michael H - someone said you were living in a trailer, and I had visions of you lying there undiscovered...
luckily, my psychic powers are zero.

My sister is dying of cancer. There comes a point when you are willing to hope and try for a cure or healing. Is there anything about Dr. Chapman passing on his mediumship to someone else?

luckily, my psychic powers are zero.

It depends on the ‘powers’, Teri. Premonitions, as in the Danger Ahead thread might be disconcerting. But Remote viewing would be useful, especially if Michael H can be seen wandering around his kitchen cooking something nice for himself.
Glad you’re OK, Michael H!

"My sister is dying of cancer. There comes a point when you are willing to hope and try for a cure or healing. Is there anything about Dr. Chapman passing on his mediumship to someone else?"

Posted by: pmprescott

Not many people are aware that Michael Chapman (George Chapman’s son) is continuing the healing work aided by Dr Lang’s son, Basil.

A book has been published about this work:
MORE THINGS IN HEAVEN AND EARTH: The healing work of Michael Chapman by David J. Nicholls, Dip.RS, B.A.(Hons), M.Phil., Ph.D

You can contact him here:
http://ukpetsearch.freeuk.com/mgchapman/


"This evokes in me the image of an infinite jigsaw puzzle, for which pieces keep being (re)discovered."

Ben if you know of a book or article that claims to have discovered the origin of ignorance I would be interested in it. Keeping in mind ignorance and unawareness are synonyms.

The Buddha at least to the Buddhists today claim that the origin of ignorance was and is a futile question. Many give the Buddha credit for discovering the origin of suffering but it appears that the Hindus were already teaching that ignorance was the cause of our suffering and Buddha was a Hindu.

It may be important to note that Siddhārtha Gautama (Buddha) had a realization (awaking) as to the origin of suffering not just knowledge about the origin of suffering.

It appeared logical to me (only me it appears :-) that if ignorance was the cause of our suffering it may be beneficial to ask the question what is the origin of that ignorance. Involution and understanding variation may help a seeker gain knowledge as to the necessity of ignorance for the Ultimate (gods or God?) to manifest individual perceived unique identities.

For many reasons the world will try to inhibit questions but consciousness evolves and will always triumph. As the enlighten Hindus might say how else would God rediscover itself (i.e. dance with itself) without the jigsaw puzzle.


if you know of a book or article that claims to have discovered the origin of ignorance I would be interested in it.

Sri Aurobindo's book "The Life Divine" has a chapter called "The Origin of Ignorance" (Book II, Part I Chapter 12).

http://www.kheper.net/topics/Aurobindo/Life_Divine.html

William, if you want a gnostic perspective, "The Gnostic Religion" by Hans Jonas goes into their understanding of the Demiurge as Imperfect Creator of an Imperfect Universe.

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