Rethinking David Thompson

As long-time readers of this blog know, I've been very skeptical of the English medium David Thompson, who has participated in a series of séances with a group called the Circle of the Silver Cord in Sydney, Australia. It is claimed that Thompson, while securely bound and gagged in a dark room, can materialize the ectoplasmic forms of departed persons who then speak to the sitters, sometimes sing or play musical instruments, and occasionally shake hands or offer physical tokens (a handwritten note in one case, a commemorative coin in another).

Many such claims have been made in the history of mediumship, and outlandish as they sound, some of them appear to have validity. But the specific circumstances of Thompson's séances made me extremely skeptical. My working hypothesis was that Thompson was able to free himself from his restraints, take off his gag, and put on a performance in the dark; while the lights were still out, he would slip back into his restraints after reapplying the gag. Certainly this method of deception has been used by other alleged physical mediums and materialization mediums in the past.

I even went to the trouble of contacting some professional escape artists through an online forum and asking if it would be possible to slip out of, and then back into, the kind of restraints used to secure Thompson to his chair. Several of the escape artists assured me that it was possible and even easy, and one of them promised to make a video that would demonstrate how it was done.

Recently, however, I've started to think I was wrong about David Thompson. That is not to say there are no problems with his mediumship. I do think there are problems. There are many unanswered questions and many doubtful phenomena. But I am no longer committed to my theory that Thompson is escaping from his bonds to put on a fraudulent performance.

There are two main reasons for my change of mind. First, it has been many months since the escape artist in question promised to produce his video, and so far no video has appeared. Another participant in the same forum brought up this fact a couple of months ago, and was met with a storm of abuse from the assembled escape artists, who were eager to protect one of their own. Their defensiveness did not inspire confidence. There may be perfectly valid reasons why the video was never produced -- reportedly the escape artist in question has gone off to a Third World country to do charity work -- but the fact remains that there is no video and hence no proof that slipping in and out of these bonds is as easy as I'd been told.

I'm not saying it's impossible to slip free of the flexible handcuffs that secure Thompson; probably no method of restraint is completely escape-proof; but I'm no longer inclined to take the escape artists' word for it when they assert, without any supporting evidence, that it can be easily done. After all, there is a long history of magicians, mentalists, and escape artists making extravagant claims to be able to duplicate spiritualistic phenomena -- claims they frequently have been unable to back up.

Second, I've been in touch with someone who attended a David Thompson séance in the United States not long ago. This person would prefer not to be named because he doesn't want to be drawn into the sometimes rough-and-tumble online controversy. But his report of what happened is quite credible, presented in a no-nonsense tone with a lot of detail. Here are some of the facts that stood out when I read his description.

The room in which the séance took place was one that Thompson had never entered before. Since Thompson hails from the UK and has recently been living in Australia, it's not surprising that he would be unfamiliar with a building in the USA. The room was small and, when all the sitters were assembled, quite crowded. Between 22 and 24 people sat for the séance in closely arranged chairs that left little or no room for maneuvering. The sitters arranged large plywood boards over the carpeted floor so that any footsteps would be audible. Thompson was secured to a chair he had not supplied -- which, again, is not surprising, since he would hardly have transported a chair from overseas to the United States. The circle members were seated so closely together, in such cramped quarters, that had any of them left the circle, the person's defection would surely have been detected. The only door to the room was locked, and the windows were boarded shut. Thompson himself was placed in a makeshift "cabinet" -- essentially he was behind a curtain. Everyone was searched with the use of a metal detector when entering the room. Their pockets and shoes were examined, and many of their belongings (jewelry etc.) were removed.

Thompson asked for £40 from each sitter to cover his expenses (about $75). This is not a trivial amount; considering there were between 22 and 24 sitters, total earnings from the event would have been at least $1650. Still, the amount is less than the $280 per sitter that other sources have reported as Thompson's fee. And given the travel costs, it seems unlikely that Thompson made any net profit.

Much of what proceeded to happen was similar to reports already given, but there were a few interesting details supplied by my correspondent. For one thing, there were the trumpet phenomena. The 'trumpet" is of course a conical, megaphone-like device used to amplify spirit voices. In this case the trumpet, which had been treated with luminous paint or tape so as to be seen in the dark, whizzed around the room at high speed -- not an unusual event at a séance, and an effect that can be faked by placing the trumpet at the end of a pole.

What is more significant is that the trumpet would speed up to a sitter's face and stop instantly when just touching the tip of the person's nose -- then repeat this action as many as four times in succession. My correspondent did not think that any human agent, working in pitch darkness, could manipulate the trumpet so precisely. It's one thing to move the trumpet helter-skelter, but another to guide it with such rapidity and precision to a particular target in the dark and do so over and over again without error. My correspondent did not hear any footsteps on the plywood planks that would have suggested a human operator.

An even more dramatic effect occurred at the very end of the séance, when a loud crash was heard in the center of the room, between the two sets of folding chairs. When the lights came on, Thompson was found, secured and gagged, in his chair at that very spot. It appeared as if the chair, with Thompson in it, had been moved out from behind the curtain (which was undisturbed) and dropped heavily onto the floor. Again, no footsteps were heard on the plywood planks. If Thompson, free of his restraints, had lugged the chair into the center of the room, it seems almost certain his footsteps would have been audible, and he very likely would have brushed against some of the sitters in the confined space. The same is true if we imagine that an accomplice or accomplices had carried the chair and dropped it.

I've received other information from the same correspondent, not relating specifically to this séance, but still of considerable interest. For one thing, the respected paranormal writer Guy Playfair sat in a Thompson séance in which he allegedly encountered the materialized form of psychical researcher Montague Keen. Asking for proof of Keen's identity, Playfair was given an address. This address, which related to an investigation in which Playfair had participated some years earlier, was not publicly known, but would have been known to Keen.

When questions arose about the reality of Thompson's purported spirit control, a certain William C. Cadwell, Playfair did some research in Mormon family history records and apparently found there was a William C. Cadwell who died within one year of the date of death given by Thompson's "William." There seems to be some question as to whether the person Playfair uncovered was named Cadwell or Caldwell. (As I am told Guy Playfair sometimes reads this blog, perhaps he can be prevailed upon to clear this up.)* Moreover, some people say it couldn't be Thompson's "William" because the spirit control claimed to have come from London and the person listed in the Mormon records lived in a different part of England. According to my correspondent, however, the Mormon records did not list Cadwell/Caldwell's place of origin. In any event, there does appear to be at least some support for the existence of a William C. Cadwell/Caldwell in the appropriate timeframe.

[*Update, September 15: In the comments thread (below), Guy Lyon Playfair confirms that the name he found in the Mormon records was W. C. Cadwell. This person was born in 1843 in London. Guy did not note the year of death but says he will check it when he can. Another commenter, Lis, says that according to other records, this individual was actually born on August 4,  1842, but not christened until August 2, 1843. She writes, "Sadly, this William Charles Cadwell died at the age of 23 in the December Quarter of 1865.... It is obvious that this William Charles Cadwell is not the 'etherean' who claims to be William Charles Cadwell born 1830 died 1897."]

I'm also told that, when he lived in England, Thompson participated in a home circle which met once a month for more than five years, without publicity or any monetary compensation. Although the vagaries of human motivation can be hard to fathom, it does seem unlikely that someone who is out to make money as a fraud would spend more than five years in regular séances for no pay and no PR. As my correspondent points out, there are quite a few home circles in the UK, and few of them get any publicity, since the members prefer to keep a low profile.

So what to make of David Thompson? I continue to think there are serious problems raised by his mediumship. Various dead celebrities have allegedly appeared in the séance room, often sounding nothing like their earthly selves. Dubious medical diagnoses and advice have been offered. Audio files of the séances have been put online and then removed without explanation. Some of Thompson's defenders can be belligerent and unreasonable. (A thorough rundown of objections to Thompson's mediumship is found here.)

That said, it does appear that something paranormal is going on. I no longer think the hypothesis of outright fraud is plausible. It may be that Thompson is channeling low-level spirit entities who pretend to be something they're not. Or possibly he is somehow manifesting his own unconscious thought forms. Or perhaps there is some other explanation.

I don't know.

Comments

[Zerdini]

David Thompson works for an airline so often has the opportunity to get cheap or free flights to various countries as part of his job.

Your last paragraph from a Spiritualist point of view is the most feasible.

When your correspondent states that Thompson produces materialised entities that raises grave doubts in my mind as to the truth of the reports.

Thompson has NEVER produced a materialised entity nor has he ever seen one - this he has freely admitted. Neither, I may add, has any member of his current circle

David fell out with the original home circle in which he sat (with a Gordon and Eve Bromley in Crawley, Sussex, England) and then, before returning to Australia, sat in a circle composed of members and former members of the Noahs Ark Society. The leader of that circle has expressed his concerns regarding David's current claims regarding his mediumship.

The real problems arose, in my opinion, when Victor and Wendy Zammit joined his circle in Sydney.

Zammit has continued to make outrageous claims regarding David's mediumship which cannot be substantiated. He also verbally abuses anyone who dares question his statements.

[Marcel Cairo]

Michael, I admire that you are an open minded person, and that when presented proper evidence, you are not beyond changing a previous opinion; however, in my humble estimation, there has not been sufficient evidence in this situation to warrant a change of mind.

Put David Thompson in a room by himself, carefully secured a gag around David's mouth with duct tape, handcuff his hands, add a two-way radio communication system and conduct a cross-examination of any of the famous spirits reported to come through David Thompson.

If nothing comes through or if the famous entities fail their exam, then you will have your answer.

[Paul Welsh]

I hesitate to raise a wavering finger here but doesn't mediumship usually rely on the right atmosphere to produce results? If so is it not likely that nothing will result at all in the environment you suggest Marcel even if David is genuine?

Having said that, I think Leslie Flint endured similar conditions (I am sure Zerdini will correct me)although I don't think he was on his own - perhaps the medium would need people around him for this to work.

[Paul Welsh]

As an aside I used to enjoy reading the VZ website but I found the vitriol directed to those who raised objections quite disturbing and stopped subscribing.

[Zerdini]

Leslie Flint was an Independent Direct Voice medium and did not produce physical phenomena.

The voices came from mid-air and moved around the room without the aid of trumpets etc.

Survival evidence was the criterion by which the seances were assessed.

[Jim]

Hi Michael,

I like your blogbut the facts on the Mormon records re Cadwell are wrong and your reprt is innacurate I quote from my site which you direct people to (thanks).
"We will now stick to his chief spirit control. A rigorous check was made of all genealogical records. Of the birth records, the census records for 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1890 & 1901, together with a search of the death registration (by 1890 this was mandatory and preceded burial, the records were meticulously kept and preserved through both wars). There is no William Charles Cadwell, let alone one described as a man of science living anywhere in the UK let alone in or around London, fitting any of these records. This check was made by several people including experienced genealogists and they reached the same conclusions. DT’s circle appealed to the SPR and it became clear that they had not researched this at all, however Guy Lyon Playfair, in response to this appeal, did a check for them once contacted and said there was a death of a William Caldwell in 1899. Unfortunately this Caldwell has the wrong dates, wrong name, is a born, bred and died Lancastrian. Not a man of science and not a realistic answer given any recordings of William."

It is the census records (as well as other records) that prove this Caldwell and any other possibility never existed as the control guide or in the claimed regions and certainly no Cadwell(even in the single mormon records). In reality geneaology is better left to the geneaologists who have provided this information, as I have discovered to my chagrin, it is very difficult for unschooled amateurs.

I hope people have a full read of the otehr comments which I extracted from the long saga.

Cheers Jim

[Paul Welsh]

Thanks for the important qualification Zerdini :) - Do you think my commnent regarding the "atmosphere" in which any testing is done is valid?

[Jim]

It is interesting to compare your report, from your friend at the seance, with Victors own report to be found at
http://www.victorzammit.com/articlesdavid/newyork.htm
There are differences in many ways, especially for the reason the plywood floor was put in place. In honesty the man who arranged this seance clearly has integrity, however, I believe it is very unlikely that either a physical medium or even a mental medium would not like to see where they would work. There is also a certain charming naivety in his approach to the report which reconfirms his genuineness.

If we bring visitors here we show them where they will be because part of the requirements are to be at peace and safe where you work. At the very least I would have thought that a digital picture or two and an exchange between David and the organiser may have occured.

I note your comments about pricing, well on this trip David clearly charged much less than on any other visit, or on his Australian trips where his expenses are paid. We know that is true in Australia nad can prove it. I have no reason to disbelieve the $280 US in America which came from a National Association of Spiritualist Churches (NSAC) member church there. I would think maybe the NSAC have some knowledge of this but would not willingly follow this up. I know friends in an NSAC church that pulled out of a visit because of price but I never asked them nor would I.

In terms of David Thompson, in honesty I feel it is old hat there is no new knowledge that proves or disproves anything. If people wish to see him and pay the price so be it. If he comes up with the scientifically proven proof of survival I will cheer.

However, at this point in time, nothing has changed,the comments on the latest trip still show contradictions between your informant, the Victor Zammit report and well documented information from the past. The photograph on the Circle of the Silver Cord web site is the right height for David Thompson with the right head shape. This is substantially different from the shape of the supposed William Cadwells picture on the same site. We must await better photographs in the future.

What is or is not truth, I have no idea and refuse to say that his work is not real. I just need answers, like many others. I would find it very hard to accept that deliberate fraud was occuring, so proof of that would equally be needed.

Really it is time it was cleared up, I used to like David but do thank he and Victor for saying they are not Spiritualists. Spiritualism is about proof, which is all we are asking for

My own energies have to move on, the incident is far from the main feature of the site which my piece is written on, about the "Curious Case of David Thompson and Victor Zammit. In honesty I wish them the best but surely they could enter into dialogue not continue to abuse those who challenge them. It is neither pretty nor an effective response to deal with significant matters.

Jim

[Michael Prescott]

Thanks, Jim, for your comments and for the link. I don't see too many discrepancies between the two reports. Yes, the one you linked to says that plywood was put down to help confirm the materializations by making the footsteps audible, but by the same token it would presumably have made the footsteps audible if the chair had been carried into the center of the room. It is hard to lug a big, heavy piece of furniture while walking on plywood without making any sound.

I agree that there is not much new info in what my correspondent told me, but I was impressed by his sober attitude and by some of the specific facts he cited. Even if we assume that Thompson can escape from his bonds (and I'm not ruling this out), it still would not explain the precision and rapidity of the trumpet movements (as described in both reports) or the movement of the chair to the center of the room, in pitch darkness, at a time when the sitters apparently were silent and listening for any sound.

Of course I could be wrong, but my honest attitude at this point is that I just don't know.

Zerdini wrote, When your correspondent states that Thompson produces materialised entities that raises grave doubts in my mind as to the truth of the reports.

I don't think his choice of terminology affects the validity of his observations. The distinction between a physical medium and a materialization medium is a technical one, and there is a large area of overlap. (For instance, Palladino was known mainly as a physical medium, but produced some partial materializations that were sometimes seen in decent light.)

[Marcel Cairo]

Michael, I have experience in two different seances with a flying trumpet. The trumpet moved fast, was playful, and unfortunately, was also being held afloat by someone else in the room via a long pole.

See this picture for an example of how it is done.

Instead of taking my word for it, why not try it at home if you want to. Fasten a full paper towel roll to the end of a broom stick and twirl it around the room in a circular motion with the light on so you get a sense of how far you would need to be so as not to hot people in the head, but come close enough to give them a "wind in their face" sensation.

Now, mark the spot where you were just standing with a small hardly detectable piece of glow in the dark tape. This is the marker. Turn off the lights, and swirl your paper towel roll on a stick again. You will shock yourself at how fast you can go in the dark. With enough practice, you can even learn to do some tricks, like a full stop in front of someone's face or maneuvering around their shoulder.

When you add a room of believers, some loud music or random noises, and the belief that the medium is bound and gagged, it's not too hard to get a report back much like the one your correspondent gave you.

On an historical note, check out this newspaper report from 1902 - the picture attached to the article advertises a "Trumpet Medium."

Anyway, I think you may want to revisit Lamar Keane's book. He covers the flying trumpet in there, I believe.

[Marcel Cairo]

Oh, and here is a picture of Minnie Harrison controlling a trumpet with an ectoplasm rod which seems to be coming out of her ectoplasmic prison pouch.

MP wrote:

"I don't think his choice of terminology affects the validity of his observations. The distinction between a physical medium and a materialization medium is a technical one, and there is a large area of overlap. (For instance, Palladino was known mainly as a physical medium, but produced some partial materializations that were sometimes seen in decent light.)"

With all due respect, Michael, full or partial materialisations have to be SEEN in some form of lighting to justify the term.

Thompson sits in complete darkness so by no stretch of the imagination can he be called a materialisation medium.

There is a big difference between a physical medium and a materialisation medium.

All materialistion mediums are physical mediums but not all physical mediums are materialisation mediums.

[zerdini]

The above was posted by Zerdini.

[Zerdini]

Hi Paul

You are correct. A hostile environment can have deleterious results in physical seances.

A sceptical attitude doesn't affect genuine mediumship.

[Frank]

What has happened to Lamar Keane?

[Zerdini]

Marcel, you don't appear to have much experience of physical mediumship judging purely on your comments.

I have spent nearly fifty years investigating physical and mental mediumship and sat with at least ten physical mediums so I suggest I speak from first-hand experience.

[Zerdini]

Lamar Keene was not a medium - he was an admitted conman.

[Michael Prescott]

What has happened to Lamar Keane?

According to George Hansen, Keene died some time ago.

With enough practice, you can even learn to do some tricks, like a full stop in front of someone's face or maneuvering around their shoulder.

In pitch darkness? How could you know where the sitter's face (or shoulder) is, if you can't see anything?

I know about hoisting the trumpet on a rod and making it whiz about, but I don't see how that can explain precise, controlled moves in which the trumpet zooms right up to a sitter and stops just touching his nose.

I suppose the operator could be wearing night-vision goggles. But this explanation could not apply to séances held decades ago, like the ones described by Arthur Findlay in On the Edge of the Etheric, in which precision trumpet moves were seen.

Or could the luminous tape/paint on the trumpet might cast just enough light to guide the operator? I doubt it. Findlay experimented with a luminous trumpet in the dark and couldn't control it with precision.

There have also been cases of trumpets that touched a sitter's left knee (say) after the sitter mentally requested the touch, without speaking aloud. As far as I know, this has not been observed in a David Thompson séance, but I have read of it happening in other venues.

[Marcel Cairo]

Zerdini wrote:

Marcel, you don't appear to have much experience of physical mediumship judging purely on your comments.

I have spent nearly fifty years investigating physical and mental mediumship and sat with at least ten physical mediums so I suggest I speak from first-hand experience.

Ok. I don't think I was challenging your expertise in the subject. You have more experience. You win.

However, experience aside, anyone can be fooled, and most have.

I believe that there should be a "stated" minimum threshold of experiment acceptability in the field of parapsychology. This standard would serve as the basic price of entry for anyone putting forward evidence for the survival hypothesis.

I call this standard, The Consciousness Research & Experimentation Study Threshold (CREST).

My CREST Test is parapsychology's version of Occam's razor, a simple and reasonable guide that already exists, but has not been succinctly stated.

Here it is -

"Objective proof of consciousness survival first requires proof of scientific objectives."

I make a distinction between objective proof and subjective proof. There are many things that I have experienced personally which I would never expect science or scientist to validate.

[Mr Butterscotch]

The fact remains that if this was at all genuine, WHY NOT DO IT WITH THE LIGHTS ON?!?!? This is a trick that's as old as the idea of Mediumship itself.

Mr Prescott, whatever your views on mediumship and the afterlife, the fact remains that you are more willing (apparently) to believe that a man can channel the dead than he can escape some bonds.

Now, I don't know about you, but I'm fairly sure that scientifically the latter is more logical and likely. The fact is you cite the lack of video evidence as a reason to why David Thompson's skill may be real. In that case, where is the video evidence of David Thompson performing these feats? No wait, that will never occur, because, simply put, he performs in the dark - quite literally. He'd never win Randi's million dollar challenge.

[Zerdini]

Mr B
Have you read Mr Prescott's blog: Ignorance is bliss?

[Frank]

"He'd never win Randi's million dollar challenge."
HaHa! If you're gonna bring up Randi's challenge I could bring up Victor Zammit's challenge which no skeptic has won. They are both equally absurd. Why don't you go the Daily Grail website and read their expose about Randi's challenge. It's a farce. Randi-s challenge- LOL! Sad that people fall for that one.

[william]

I want to attend a séance where Marcel has a trumpet on a long pole and then touches everyone in the room in the dark on the nose.

A light touch that is.

With Margery the medium they tried to prove her a fraud because they found one thread on the floor and one time the dentist thumbprint was on the dental wax even though she had done maybe a hundred thumbprints of Walter at other séances.

But with spiritualism it is good to be cautious. Very cautious. I commend Michael for his willingness to even consider the validity of David Thompson. The offer is still there to the silver cord to see if I can supply the passive night goggles as they make them close to my home.

Who knows maybe the CEO of that company is into the paranormal. Hey we are already at NO.

I look forward to the day Michael P writes such a post on the Margery séances. :-)

[Michael Prescott]

you are more willing (apparently) to believe that a man can channel the dead than he can escape some bonds.

Well, I do believe some people can channel the dead. The evidence is, in my opinion, very, very strong that mediums like Leonora Piper, Gladys Osborn Leonard, and Eileen Garrett were the real deal.

As far as escaping from bonds is concerned, I certainly don't rule out the possibility that Thompson could do this. But I no longer think that fraud would explain some of the other reported phenomena at his séances, as mentioned in the post.

[Georg D.]

I don't believe that kind of stuff but after watching worlds scariest ghosts on google video, it makes me wonder, it has by far the best video of orbs and spirit mists on video I've ever seen full stop. google video scariest ghosts caught on tape, you won't regret it. thx

[Leo MacDonald]

George,

You may believe if you research this topic perhaps.

[Leo MacDonald]

George,

You may believe if you research the evidence and decide for yourself. Perhaps.

[Paul Welsh]

I agree Leo. The key is research. I defy anyone to read the even a fraction of the research done by Lodge, Crookes etc and dismiss surivival of death out of hand.

[Lis]

Hi Michael,

I would like to address one of the issues raised in in your report. First, you state that "when questions arose about the reality of Thompson's purported spirit control, a certain William C Cadwell, Playfair did some research in the Morman family history records and apparently found there was a William C Cadwell who died within one year of the date of the death given by Thompson's 'William'."

May I clarify for you that initially David Thompson claimed that it was the SPR and Montegue Keen who had undertaken the research into the existence of William C Cadwell and they "had found him". This apparently was said to have occurred back in 2005 long before any questions were being raised about this William's existence.

Shortly after questions did arise, in mid November 2007, Thompson then claimed that it was Playfair who had done the research and found William, back in 2005.

Thompson wrote, on November 20, 2007 on the now defunct SCR that "the the report was also done with Guy Lyon Playfair who did the checks on William and found him, I will ask the lady who is a member of this site to put up the recent email she recieved from Guy Lyon Playfair regarding William and his exsistance."

This letter was never made available to the members of the SCR despite a number of requests.

Subsequently some confusion arose because it seemed that Playfair had found not a William C Cadwell, but a William Caldwell, who had died in 1899, not in 1897 as claimed by Thompson's 'control'.

You are right therefore when you say "There seems to be some question as to whether the person Playfair uncovered was named Cadwell or Caldwell."

In fact, Playfair could not have 'uncovered' a William Charles Cadwell, as no such person appears to have existed, and certainly not in the 1830 - 1897 time span that Thompson's purported 'control' claims were the years of their existence.

The first person who seems to have raised concerns about the existence and claimed life of Thompson's William Charles Cadwell was a Leo, on the SCR on 15 November 2007. They wrote:

"When I wrote last time I was quite excited by David Thompson's remark about his main spirit friend and contact William Charles Cadwell who passed in 1897 and that this William Cadwell had been checked out by the SPR and Monteque Keen and was found to exist."

"I had a look around and found that William Cadwell was according to David Thompson's website born in 1830."

"I thought I would try to find out more and so looked at the Government Record Office Death Registrations (what used to be called the St Catherine Deaths Index) and I also looked at the Census records for 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891."

"There was no point looking for a birth registration because it was not until the second half of 1837 that such registration came into effect. Without a known place of birth it would be very difficult to establish the church where a person was baptised in 1830."

"Anyhow, I have decided to let people on the Spiritualism Chatroom know what I found."

"In brief - NO William Charles CADWELL died in 1897, nor did a William Cadwell or a Charles William. No such person died the year before or after either."

"In the 1841 census records there was NO William or William C Cadwell born 1830 anywhere in England. Because in the 1841 census records ages were rounded down (eg 43 would be recorded as 40, 47 as 45 etc) I next checked the 1851 census and found just 8 William Cadwell - NONE were born in 1830."

"There was one William Charles Cadwell found in the 1851 census records - he however was born in 1843 in Chelsea. Sadly he died in the December Quarter of 1865 in Chelsea - so cannot be considered a possible for David Thompson's William Charles Cadwell."

"The subsequent census records also do not show any William Cadwell born 1830 - so all such records fail to show this purported guide who plays such a vital role in David Thompson's physical mediumship and seances."

"Feeling frustrated I took a look for Timothy BOOTH the child guide who is said to play an important role in the seances. He is said (on the circle of the silver cord website) to have been born in 1899 and died in 1908. Oh dear!!! There were NO Timothy Booth's born in 1899 anywhere in England. There were NO Timothy Booth's who died in 1908."

It seems that this Leo has some experience in genealogical research. A number of other people subsequently undertook an investigation and also arrived at the same conclusions as set out above.

I am one of those people, and I have extensive experience in genealogical research. Indeed, I am also currently using that training to research, using genealogical records, various famous Spiritualists, as a means of providing insight in the different written records on these people.

I can confirm that there was no William Charles Cadwell who died in 1897. The census records do not show any such person existing in England, never mind living in London between 1841 and 1901.

There was a William Caldwell (note not a Willian C Cadwell) who was born about 1832 in the Northern part of England who died in 1899. His death is indexed in the Government Record Office Index to Deaths for that year: 1899 in the registration district of Leigh Vol 8c page137.

There were NO William Cadwell's (or William Charles, or Charles William's) who died between 1890 and 1900.

Let me make it quite clear, I can provide you with a complete list of Cadwells who were born and died between 1837 and 1900. I assure you, you will not find a Cadwell that fits the claims of Thompson's WCC.

I can also confirm that there is no Timothy Booth born 1899 - died 1908 either.

In short, there is no evidence to support the existence of William Charles Cadwell and I rather doubt that there ever will be.

Thompson's mediumship, regardless of whether we call him a physical medium or a materialization medium, is fundamentally based on the existence of this Cadwell, who claims they are in charge of all phenomena and 'materializations' that take place in Thompson's seances. This primary 'control' has made claims of an existence, with a year of birth of 1830, and a year of death of 1897. Further, this 'control' claims that this existence was in London, and that is where they died and were buried. They also claim they were a 'man of science', and again there is no evidence found to substantiate this further claim.

When the basic premise of Thompson's mediumship, namely 'his friend and guide'William Charles Cadwell, is found not to stand up to reasonable and objective investigation,it cannot but give rise to doubts as to what else in Thompson's mediumship may not hold up to closer scrutiny.

I have never attended a Thompson seance, and have no desire to, not that he would be willing to have me in one. I cannot, therefore comment on what goes on in such seances. I can, however, comment with a fair degree of certainty about this purported 'spirit control'.

I, for one, would be very interested to see the 'evidence' Playfair found to substantiate what appears to be the non-existence of this character.

Regards Lis

[Michael Prescott]

Thanks, Lis, for that helpful recap. I really don't know what's going on with Thompson. My main point is that I now think outright fraud is unlikely, if the testimony of people who've attended the séances is accurate.

This, of course, leaves open the possibility that Thompson is being controlled by entities that are not who they say they are, or that he is manifesting his own subconscious thought-forms in some way. Or there may be some other explanation.

But my original guess - that he was freeing himself from the chair and putting on a show - no longer strikes me as plausible.

[Zerdini]

I sat with Thompson's home circle in the UK and found it remarkably unimpressive.

There was no evidence of survival given and it seemed to me that he was overly anxious to try and convince me that he was a genuine medium. He rang me a few days after the seance and asked for my views on the seance which I freely gave.

I have no doubt that he has ability to produce some physical phenomena but further than that I am not prepared to go.

The well-known Spiritualists he claimed manifested in his seances do not stand up to scrutiny as I knew most of them extremely well and they are not alike in personality, memory, speech etc.

As for the alleged 'Houdini', Louis Armstrong etc the less said the better.

[Marcel Cairo]

Michael, this may hit your political bone in a bad way, but you are starting to sound like a graduate of the John Kerry University of Flip Flop.

The testimony given by those who have attended the David Thompson seances can be quite compelling. Almost as compelling as the people who will tell you that they say a statue of the Virgin Mary cry blood. From their accounts, you cannot see a reason not to believe them. So instead of challenging someone's eyewitness account and personal belief, you have to do neutral investigation.

I have spoken with two eye witnesses of the Australian seances, and they both were unimpressed, unconvinced and generally suspicious of all claims being made.

I think it has been 5 years now since Mr. Thompson has been materializing spirits. When in the last 5 years have any recognized psi researcher been invited to a seance or been allowed to control the protocol of these seances.

David Thompson is at best a novelty act, and at worst an unfortunate distraction. I for one am interested in the science of psi, not simply the odd and curious entertaining story.

[Michael Prescott]

I for one am interested in the science of psi, not simply the odd and curious entertaining story.

I'm interested in both. But a great deal of psi does take the form of odd and curious stories. I doubt it can be otherwise when dealing with phenomena on the fringe of ordinary experience. Even the best-investigated mediums have their peculiarities, like the strange behavior of Mrs. Piper's "control" Phinuit, or Mrs. Leonard's control Feda. The whole field is a mixture of the testable and the untestable, the predictable and the unpredictable, which is what makes it so difficult to pin down - like nailing Jello to a wall.

[Lis]

Well Michael,

Forgive me for saying so but what I wrote was not a 'recap'. It was a clear statement that the 'spirit control' so called of David Thompson DID NOT have the existence they claim they had. There is, as Victor Zammit would say, "no admissable evidence" that can establish the existence of this character. If this is so, and I will stand by that, then the supposed entity responsible for what your friend thinks they observed, does not exist.

I really do not see why,when the veracity of a claimed entity, has been brought into dispute, one would then just assume, it must be a maskerading spirit, rather than facing the much more likely probability, that it is the so called medium, who is doing the maskerading. William may have impressed your correspondent, but he has failed to impress many others. Just as David Thompson's mediumship has failed to impress many.

Perhaps, the experience of some who have sat in Thompson's seances in Australia, who were less than impressed, migth sway you. Like the lady who was hit in the chest, hard, by the 'flying' trumpet. Then again, the people who experienced Thompson's so called 'psychic surgery' might have some credible views to express as well. They would not, however, be positive of William, the Doctor, or the behaviour of Thompson.

While I do not doubt the genuineness of your friend, I do wonder whether they had sufficient experience and objectivity to assess and evaluate Thompson's 'phenomena'.

As for the chair ending up in the middle of the room, and how you believe that Thompson could not have done this - may I suggest you try tieing yourself to a chair (arms and legs as Thompson is) and then try standing up and walking about - you may be quite surprised to discover that it is actually quite easy to do.

Regards,
Lis

[Michael Prescott]

try tieing yourself to a chair (arms and legs as Thompson is) and then try standing up and walking about - you may be quite surprised to discover that it is actually quite easy to do.

Yes, I imagine so. But could I do it in pitch darkness, navigating between two rows of chairs placed close together, walking on plywood planks without making any sound? I think I'd probably bump into one or more of the sitters, or trip over my own feet. It would take only one such disaster to discredit me.

I also wonder about the 70 or more séances Thompson reportedly held for a home circle in the UK. What would be his motivation in doing all that work for no pay and no publicity? Just to get to the point he's at now - when he still holds down a day job and does séances on the side?

Of course a few months ago I would have been arguing the opposite side of this question. The truth is, I don't know what's going on, but I think I jumped to conclusions and then stubbornly clung to them. Now I'm trying to make amends by taking a more neutral position.

[Jim]

Hi Michael
On the latter point Paul Barker, David's circle leader in that Home Circle made the situation clear on the old SCR. He and the group sat on David keeping him on the right track although he tended to pull away. They were all well experienced whereas COSC members universally had little experience at all.

Paul confirmed many problems to us including the cancer patient.

[Jim]

Hi Michael and All.

Not only do we have information through genealogy that William did not exist but we should study some of the guidelines on guides. This information comes from an interview Joe Fisher did with the guide of George Chapman in researching his book “Hungry Ghosts” and the interview was with the Spirit of the famous surgeon Dr Lang. George Chapman was probably one of the finest Spiritual Healers and Psychic Surgeons ever. His work is well recorded, documented and there is little doubt it was genuine

“Joe Fisher was unable to be satisfied as to whether a medium's guides were real people. While much of the geographical and historical information supplied by the entities was amazingly accurate, the claimed identities did not stand up to scrutiny, in his view.”
An extract of answers shows DR Lang saying
“Well, I think entities can be traced if you can find first of all a medium who is making genuine contact. I know as much about my life as I did when I was on Earth. You don't forget. One has memory. They talk of their great guides, but when you ask them: "Did you trace your guide?" they say: "Oh, no, no, but he told me he was some famous surgeon. He's using a different name because you see, he doesn't want his family to become involved." Well, surely, when you've passed into this world, you want your family to know where you are. That's what I wanted right away - my daughter and my grandchildren all came to see me . (In fact this is true Lang’s daughter came to debunk Chapman and is now entirely convinced this guide is Lang).”

Now this great Medium George Chapman went on to say "Too many alleged spirit guides do not stand up to critical examination. I believe it is essential for those who develop trance mediumship to ensure that their spirit controls are examined thoroughly to prove their identities. The spirit communicator should speak as near as possible to the way he spoke on earth, using the same phrases and mannerisms and manifesting other personal characteristics. He should be able to give dates, names and details of his earthly experiences that can be verified, and be able to discusss intimate matters with relatives and colleagues still on earth. All to often, a 'spirit controls' claimed earthly existence is outside the memory of those living, while others deliberately cloak their identities in a shroud of mystery.”

George Chapman is way beyond anything David Thompson seems currently to be capable of. Indeed the problems here with his psychic surgery, with the cancer patient and the woman who had her breast removed fully back this contention up. Now when Victor, in trying to answer this the query of WCC’s reality questioned the purported William he refused to answer any further details. COSC records regularly show answers like this, Houdini refused to speak of his wife which is remarkable given the history. Additionally, I must again point out the danger of William’s wisdom, when he spoke of Aspirin and Down’s a circle member in the age group at risk was pregnant, some one close to him, who’s baby is later heard in the circle. In honesty between his surgeon and William’s knowledge it implies that there may be dangers for the unwary in what David is doing. This is so outside acceptable behaviour from any responsible Spirit Guide it brings the “reality” of WCC more into the spotlight

[Jim]

Oh on the point about the chair, if someone was used to working in the dark I doubt it would be anything like the problem we have and the plywood may even help.

In a way all you are doing is joining us in teh "don't know camp" and needing much better proof

[zerdini]

I have no problem with the chair moving to another part of the room although I am not defending David Thompson.

I am aware of a chair containing the medium pass over the heads of the assembled sitters and land some distance way - on one occasion on the stage outside the circle.

This has happened with different chairs in different venues and in different countries.

Although I am a great fan of magic I have never seen a magician accomplish this under the exact same conditions bearing in mind it takes place extremely quickly.

[Jim]

Good point but was this in the light or the dark Z.... in other words how were the sitters able to corroborate the information. As I understand it, often in modern circles loud music is played while the sitters are subject to sensory deprivation and heightened awareness.

[Michael Prescott]

One thing that makes me less skeptical of the chair movement is the fact that essentially the same phenomenon was observed in séances with Eusapia Palladino, as I discussed here.

One of Palladino's investigators, Cesare Lombroso, wrote:

The medium, who was seated near one end of the table, was lifted up in her chair bodily, amid groans and lamentations on her part, and placed (still seated) on the table, then returned to the same position as before, with her hands continually held, her movements being accompanied by the persons next her.

On the evening of the 28th of September, while her hands were held by MM. Richet and Lombroso, she complained of hands which were grasping her under the arms; then, while in trance, with the changed voice characteristic of this state, she said, "Now I lift my medium up on the table." After two or three seconds the chair with Eusapia in it was not violently dashed, but lifted without hitting anything, on to the top of the table, and M. Richet and I are sure that we did not even assist the levitation by our own force. After some talk in the trance state the medium announced her descent, and (M. Finzi having been substituted for me) was deposited on the floor with the same security and precision, while MM. Richet and Finzi followed the movements of her hands and body without at all assisting them, and kept asking each other questions about the positions of the hands.

Moreover, during the descent both gentlemen repeatedly felt a hand touch them on the head.

On the evening of October 3 the thing was repeated in quite similar circumstances, MM. Du Prel and Finzi being one on each side of Eusapia.

[Paul Barker]

Hi Michael,
I am pleased that you have taken a rethink of David's seances.Your friend has caused you to change your view dramatically. This suggests that the source of information can be stronger than the points made. There a couple of points I would like to make.

David did not make any money out of the home circle sittings. He did make good money compared to the income from his work, from public seances.

We did offer expert escape artists to be tied up the same as David and escape to show us how easy it was. None ever took this up as you have found out.

The Guy Lyon Playfair episode that took place in Oxfordshire where Montague Keen came through, allegedly and mentioned the place of an experiment they had carried out together some years before had actually been featured in a TV documentary. I had not seen it or knew about it at the time but saw it years later. It had been available for some while. David was aware of the names of the sitters before the seance. Monty was annoyed when I questioned him over his pronounciation of his old friends name, a strange response from a scientific researcher.

When Monty did sit with us the pictures taken of his thumb being cut was a farce. The before and after shots were of different sides of his hand, not an effective scientific test after all.

As has been on the COSC site the claimed testing by Guy Lyon Playfair, Montague Keen who had passed soon after David's meeting with him and Gary Schwartz never did appear. An opportunity for an open and shut case was lost.

The healing aspects reported in recent times on the site of Silver Cord are a disgrace and the aspirin issue is probably one of the most disturbing things I have read in recent years.

I thank Jim for his comments about the UK circle. I do believe David has a gift for mediumship but a severe level of distortion on the reporting and claims has left reality behind and let confusion reign.

[zerdini]

"Good point but was this in the light or the dark Z.... in other words how were the sitters able to corroborate the information. As I understand it, often in modern circles loud music is played while the sitters are subject to sensory deprivation and heightened awareness."

It was in the dark, Jim, but on the occasions I mentioned no music was played. The chair moved over the heads of the sitters occasionally brushing someone's arm or shoulder very lightly and it all happened very quickly.

All the sitters were in a circle, usually seated by me,(an outer and an inner circle) so that there was absolutely no room to manoeuvre between the seats.

[Lis]

Perhaps we should look at this matter in a more dispassionate manner.

Paul Barker was circle leader for quite some time, when David Thompson was developing his mediumship. It is clear that Paul believes that David does have genuine mediumistic abilities but also draws attention to some aspects of events in those seances that introduce uncertainty.

Aspects of the seances now being conducted with the COSC give rise to significant concern for Paul, particularly aspects that relate to the alleged spirit control William Charles Cadwell.

Michael Prescott's collegue in America has attended a seance and written a report wherein he conveys he was deeply impressed by what took place yet, this person does not feel the strength of his convictions sufficiently to allow himself to be identified, apparently not wishing to enter into the fray of debate on the matter.

Michael, has been swayed from his previous position regarding David Thompson by his collegue's first hand account. It appears that certain physical phenomena occurred which seems to give more credence to David's mediumship. So Michael is now taking a more neutral stance on the subject.

Zerdini has expressed the view that the chair moving to the centre of the circle was also done in the past by Colin Fry. He is confident that in Colin's case the phenomea was genuine and accordingly is prepared to view David's efforts in this respect in a similar vein. He is less happy with other aspects of David's mediumship.

In particular,Z stresses, rightly, I believe, that David is not a materialisation medium, despite Victor Zammit's claims, because the 'entities' communicating cannot be seen. He also draws attention to the fact that the identities of those who have apparently communicated do not correspond to these people when on the earth and they have provided no objective evidence to prove who they say they are. Indeed, in some cases the information they have given has been entirely wrong.

Jim has brought attention to other concerns, largely regarding the 'control entity', their lack of objective credibility and the inaccurate, even potentially dangerous remarks made by this William. In addition, he has expressed concerns about the claimed 'psychic surgery' carried out by the 'Doctor', yet another of David's guides. Jim also remains unclear about other aspects of David Thompson's mediumship and feels that there are serious issues that need answers which have not been forthcoming.

I have pointed out that no substantiating evidence for the claimed existence of this William Charles Cadwell can be found, despite extensive research. The same situation applies for another significant circle figure; Timothy Booth. Then there is Tom the Gardener who also claims to have known both William and Timothy despite the fact that Timothy apparently lived and died after William was deceased.

I have not attended a David Thompson seance, nor has Jim. We were excluded from attending, despite having previously paid David to attend our Mission to demonstrate, give private readings, run a workshop on mediumship and do an evening of trance and psychic surgery. We were excluded because Jim asked questions and in doing so David and his circle leader determined he was an unsuitable person. Yet this was the person who was actively supporting and facilitating the upcoming physical seances that were to take place in South Australia.

I mention this,only to make clear that some might regard us as biased against David Thompson as a result of this situation. I stress that this is not the reason we have expressed concerns. If David Thompson can demonstrate genuine mediumship we would support him totally, regardless of any personal sadness over his previous conduct towards us.

So, it seems to me that we have a situation where some have been impressed with David, and other not.

Some feel that the physical phenomena associated with his seances may have a genuine basis, while others are not yet convinced.

All,who have a genuine knowledge of materialisation would argue that David is not one, though there may be evidence that he is capable of producing physical phenomena.

Much physical phenomena produced in seances can be accounted for in ways other than evidence of spirit activity. What provides evidence of spirit activity is where proof of survival information is given by recognisable people who were known before they passed into spirit. This David Thompson has not yet done with any degree of success.

Therefore, while David may be a physical medium, though this is yet to be proved conclusively, he is not at this point a materialisation medium. The claimed entities orchestrating his seances do not stand up to scrutiny and, as a result undermine the potential validity of Thompson's mediumship.

Until David is prepared to subject himself to independent testing, we will not be able to take the matter of his mediumship any further than we have to this point. Some will continue to believe in him, others will not. He will continue to be a figure of controversy and this does little to enhance the case for survival.

Since David has clearly stated that he is no longer a Spiritualist, it may be that he really has little interest in convincing that group of people of his genuineness. Others, who are part of the general evidence for survival group are divided about David's mediumship, with strong positions taken on both sides of the debate.

David appears, possibly under the guidance of Victor Zammit, to be seeking a much wider audience. An audience that is largely ignorant of the ways of spirit or of mediumship. The phenomena aspect of the seances might be very exciting and impressive but on its own does little to prove survival despite Victor's claims to the contrary.

David does not have to prove anything to any of us who have questions or concerns. He can choose to ignore us and continue to do as he is. Yet, it is sad that he has chosen this course as, without doubt, it is those of us who do have real experience of spirit who might be his greatest allies were he not so determined to alienate us by his attitude and conduct.

That he does, gives rise to other concerns. A medium, capable of producing evidence for survival would normally wish to share that with those who understand the nature of the phenomena produced. I am not saying that David is not genuine, I simply do not know what he is. I do, however, feel clear about what he is not. I also feel certain that his 'guides' are not what they claim and I am unwilling to fall into the trap of assuming they must be deceitful spirits - but nevertheless spirits. To jump to that conclusion without any evidence of their actual existence is to my mind foolhardy and an unsupportable position.

What William and the others might actually be is in reality entirely unknown, and that is all that can be said about them with any certainty.

Lis

[Zerdini]

An excellent summation, Lis, and one with which I certainly agree.

I would add that with nearly fifty years experience of physical and mental mediumship behind me (I began my investigations on the 2nd December 1959)I can state, with certainty, that the subconscious mind of the medium can play a large part in the mediumship.

This, I believe, to be the main factor in Thompson's mediumship.

The reason? Poor development of a psychic ability.

It could be likened to someone learning to play a piano and never progressing beyond hammering out a tune and believing that is all there is to understanding music.

[joki]

Zerdini, where can I find your email adress, I am interested in sharing your experiences.

[zerdini]

Hi Joki

You can contact me through the Spiritualist Chatroom:

http://spiritualistchatroom.forumotion.com/login.forum?connexion

[Paul Barker]

Hi Lis,
Just to say that the gardener was called Jack for the sake of clarity.
In the UK we were to have another Physical medium tested. Warren Caylor was to be tested under, and these are his words, any conditions. He opted out at the last moment because the condition of not having his own circle members next to him would not be dropped by the Psychic News. Not an unusual condition for a test sitting to not have your friends in a position of being able to assist and it would of course proceeding would have put the test into the realms of being a laughing stock. Mediums must be prepared to back the claims they make up with some evidence or stop taking peoples money.

regards

Paul B

[Zerdini]

From this week's "Psychic News":

The much-talked-about "Psychic News" séance with Warren Caylor, scheduled for Friday 22nd August, has been abandoned.

48 hours before the séance Mr Caylor stipulated, during a telephone conversation with PN editor, Susan Farrow, that he would not permit anyone other than his own circle members to occupy the chairs next to him during the test sitting.

In a subsequent conversation with the editor on the 21st August during which she asked Mr Caylor to reconsider the stipulation, he refused. As a result, the test sitting was abandoned.

Detailed coverage will follow in a forthcoming issue of PN.

[Zerdini]

I recently wrote to Victor ‘Killer’ Zammit politely asking him to remove a quote, taken out of context, that he lifted from a magazine I used to edit, as I had no wish to be associated with him in any way.

In return I received an abusive reply, which I will not publish on here, as most people are aware of his replies to anyone who questions him.

However, by accident, he sent me a copy of an email he sent to David Thompson referring to my request.

An email VZ sent to David Thompson: by Victor:

”Hello David,

Some years ago I included one of his (referring to me) quotes – see below. He now wants me to remove it – and I do that with great pleasure.

Instead I am putting on my homepage a quote that you (and others) would like to go on record for stating – you’ve stated that indirectly in the past”:

ADMISSIBLE AFTERLIFE EVIDENCE:
"I state with absolute certainty, that litigation lawyers are best qualified to fully analyze and assess the afterlife evidence. We must at all times seek the guidance of these highly qualified experts. Some magicians, tricksters, charlatans, conmen have mislead the public too many times. So, any queries, any guidance, any direction for what is to be allowed in evidence, look for experts such as Dr Victor Zammit.” - David Thompson, materialization medium.

If you have any objections about this let me know.
Cheers,
Victor

This now appears on his website except that he has added the word ‘extraordinaire’ after the words ‘materialization medium’.
I recently wrote to Victor ‘Killer’ Zammit politely asking him to remove a quote, taken out of context, that he lifted from a magazine I used to edit, as I had no wish to be associated with him in any way.

In return I received an abusive reply, which I will not publish on here, as most people are aware of his replies to anyone who questions him.

However, by accident, he sent me a copy of an email he sent to David Thompson referring to my request.

An email VZ sent to David Thompson: by Victor:

”Hello David,

Some years ago I included one of his (referring to me) quotes – see below. He now wants me to remove it – and I do that with great pleasure.

Instead I am putting on my homepage a quote that you (and others) would like to go on record for stating – you’ve stated that indirectly in the past”:

ADMISSIBLE AFTERLIFE EVIDENCE:
"I state with absolute certainty, that litigation lawyers are best qualified to fully analyze and assess the afterlife evidence. We must at all times seek the guidance of these highly qualified experts. Some magicians, tricksters, charlatans, conmen have mislead the public too many times. So, any queries, any guidance, any direction for what is to be allowed in evidence, look for experts such as Dr Victor Zammit.” - David Thompson, materialization medium.

If you have any objections about this let me know.
Cheers,
Victor

This now appears on his website except that he has added the word ‘extraordinaire’ after the words ‘materialization medium’.

[Zerdini]

I apologise for posting the above twice in error.

[Yof]

My wife and I attended the same Uk seance with David Thompson as that described by Guy Lyon Playfair. We also witnessed the presence of a materialised Monty Keen, who we knew personally extremely well. My wife had in her pocket a crystal point which had been given to us by Monty Keen a few years earlier. Even I was not aware of its presence there. Monty addressed us both in a voice which was not quite exact with regard to his earthly voice, but which undeniably demonstrated his personality accurately. He told my wife: I believe that you have something of mine there! At which he approached her, put his materialised hand into her pocket, and extracted the crystal point. My wife was the only other person who knew it was there. Neither of us had any doubt that it really was Monty Keen there! Incidentally, Monty dictated his own lengthy eulogy at the same seance.

[Michael Prescott]

I state with absolute certainty, that litigation lawyers are best qualified to fully analyze and assess the afterlife evidence. We must at all times seek the guidance of these highly qualified experts.

That's really funny. Also sort of sad.

By promoting Thompson, Zammit has certainly made him a more prominent figure, but also a much more controversial one. Zammit's tendency to exaggerate, and his penchant for attacking anyone who disagrees with him or even asks a question, has made him (and by extension, Thompson) look a bit ridiculous. And what about this weird notion that lawyers are some superior breed of truth-seekers? Most people rate lawyers somewhere near used car dealers in terms of truthfulness.

[Michael Prescott]

My wife had in her pocket a crystal point which had been given to us by Monty Keen a few years earlier. Even I was not aware of its presence there... My wife was the only other person who knew it was there.

That's very interesting testimony. One question: It's my understanding that sitters are thoroughly seached at every Thompson seance. Could the person(s) conducting the body search have found the crystal?

Of course, even if the crystal had been found, I doubt it could have been linked with Montague Keen.

[Zerdini]

How can you witness a materialised person in complete darkness?

[Marcel Cairo]

"Testimony" and "truth" both begin with the same letter, but in the case of materialization medium, David Thompson, that's the only link between the two that there is.

There are still people who believe the Earth is flat. You can debate them logically and get nowhere, or you can ignore them and get as far away as you can.

Claims of ectoplasm leading to full, partial or semi-partial materialization are the undying relics of 20th century spiritualism, held up primarily by British believers who can't seem to let go of a good yarn.

It is without doubt that the future of consciousness survival research has already left believers of materialization behind, though admittedly, science alone cannot kill a good myth.

To all those people who still have the ability to embrace logic and reason, it's time to walk away from the superstitions of spiritualism, but as with all addictions, I understand that that is easier said than done. You will cite historical anecdotes, you will recite exaggerated first-hand experiences and you will cling to unfounded beliefs that things that go bump in the night do so because "darkness" is a spirit's best friend. You will do all this because, in the end, you would rather die deluded than discredited.

Yet, when you do die and awaken to the truth, please try not to pretend that you knew it all along. Instead, just own up to the fact you were a fool and have a good laugh.

[Zerdini]

Marcel - sometimes you talk utter nonsense.

Don't tar all people with the same brush.

Full materialisation, admittedly, is rare but that doesn't mean it never existed

I have experienced it in good light unlike you who can only cast aspersions on something you obviously know nothing about.

It is because I have seen the real thing that I can comment without fear or favour.

[Zetetic_chick]

Zerdini, have you touched a materialised being? In that case, how is the body of that being?

I mean, I've read some of them have the same contexture of any human being, a normal flesh, etc; in other cases, it seems they're more soft, of have other material non-human-like composition. (I suppose it depends on the level of materialisation)

Do they have particular movements or other signs differents than living human being?

Can you share with us some of your direct experiences in that sense?

Thanks

[Zerdini]

Hi Zetetic chick

Yes. I have touched at least three materialised beings.

I asked the person who claimed to be a guide of mine if I could hold his hands. I gripped them and thought, "now I've got hold of you I'm not going to let go until I get to the bottom of this".

He talked with me for about ten to 15 minutes and told me his name and where he came from. We discussed my spiritual future which I admit I was very sceptical about.

More so when he said that the day would come when I would speak before thousands of people.

I have since spoken on this subject before two thousand three hundred people.

When eventually he said he had to go I said 'ok' still holding his hands very firmly in mine.

I looked down and saw the bottom half of his body dissolving before my eyes as I still held his hands till they dissolved through my fingers and his head was the last to go.

There was nothing to distinguish him from any other living human being.

Another one I touched was a dwarf who asked me to feel his nose which was squashed. I also noticed that he seemed to be attached to the medium by a ribbon of ectoplasm as he walked round the group.

There were only eight of us present.

A Red Indian materialised with a single black feather in a band on top of his head.

He asled me to feel his skin which was copper-coloured and leathery to the touch.

As if sensing my scepticism he asked me to feel his chest and then to hit him on the chest. I did this three times. Each time he said 'Harder' until he told me I could return to my seat. He was very tall - much taller than the medium. I had to reach up to touch his face.

There were others but I did not get to touch them.

The medium was Alec Harris, a Welshman who emigrated to South Africa to be near his son.

[Jim]

Hi Marcel,
Hmm quite a comment
"to walk away from the superstitions of spiritualism, but as with all addictions, I understand that that is easier said than done"

In fact we as Spiritualists with other Spiritualists have been leading voices in this because we are not superstitious and believe in the truth. Spiritualism is much deeper than just the phenomena albeit it does requier that such phenomena is verifiable and real.

The Spiritualists involved also line up a formidable array of experience, intellect and clarity of writing.

Cheers
Jim

[Jim]

Hi Yof,

Without wishing to talk down th experience you had

"My wife and I attended the same Uk seance with David Thompson as that described by Guy Lyon Playfair. We also witnessed the presence of a materialised Monty Keen, who we knew personally extremely well. My wife had in her pocket a crystal point which had been given to us by Monty Keen a few years earlier."

Now clearly by witnessing I take it you mean you heard it as nothing would have been seen. This is the nub of the problem, from my understanding COSC had a form for each attendee and he placed each person in his seat. We therefore have to be certain he had no idea you knew MK well and that your wife had this article following teh search on teh way in.

I have some problems with the whole Keen issue because a member of the former SCR knew his widow who was very unhappy with all of these claims. Also pre the formation of COSC DT received a cogent message from MK from a source Dt then trusted, however he ignored this and went in a direction that was the opposite of the then advice.

Now I would also hesitate to suggest it but I guess your wife thought about this crystal point and the link to MK.

Now as a Medium and Psychic I am not a sceptic but do know that a good psychic can pick that up from her energy. Now I have seen David work psychically very well and also do Mental mediumship so this is well within what I would see as his capability. So there are alternative answers available to explain your experiences although I still do not say it didn't occur in the way you wrote.

I say again we really need better proof to validate claims at the level of those made by Victor and David. Look on the same UK tour a commerative coin for Houdini, dated well after his death, was apported in as proof HH was there do we just accept this or ask why as we did.

That is why so many questions are asked and we lack eyewitnesses because the room is dark. There are inconsistencies throughout which we are asking for clarification upon all though the vast majority of us would like the proof to be positive it is sadly lacking

[Zetetic_chick]

Zerdini, thank you mery much for sharing your very interesting experiences! They're very impressive, specially the body dissolving before your eyes (it gives a solid sense of certainty to the reality of the phenomenon of materialisation and afterlife).

Thanks!

[Zerdini]

Hi Zetetic chick

The above was only a fraction of my experiences.

As a longtime follower of magic and illusions I have yet to see any magician dissolve in front of my eyes while I hold their hands!

When I have related my experiences on TV the resident sceptic invariably approaches me after the show and asks if I can get him or her into a seance like that.

Additionally I should add that Alec Harris never charged to attend his seances and if anyone gave him a financial donation he gave it to a children's charity.

[Zerdini]

‘Doctor’ Zammit has now upgraded himself to ’Professor’ on his website after it was discovered that his Ph.D was from Pacific Western University.

"So, any queries, any guidance, any direction for what is to be allowed in evidence, look for experts such as retired attorney 'Professor' Victor Zammit.” - David Thompson, materialization medium extraordinaire."

As Pacific Western University, i.e., prior to changing its name to California Miramar University, the institution was criticized on multiple occasions as a substandard educational institution or diploma mill.

In May 2004 the US General Accounting Office presented the results of an eight-month examination of diploma mills and other unaccredited schools and federal employees holding their degrees to the U.S. Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs.

Pacific Western University in Los Angeles was one of the six schools on which the investigation focused.

Later that year, investigative reporters from television station KVOA of Tucson, Arizona described the Los Angeles campus of Pacific Western University: "We don't find students, classrooms or professors. Only a small office with two receptionists and a man who introduces himself as the dean."

'Nuff said!

[Lis]

It would seem that David thompson's champion and publicist Mr Zammit, is as controversial and as subject to uncertainty, as is the medium himself.

What a fine pair they make.

[Jim]

Fascinating Z and I just rediscovered the Zammit weekly report where his Killer comments were juxtaposed right alongside his blast against those who raised questions with an onward link to more of what may appear to some to be abuse on his "Materialisation Corner".

It is my understanding that there is a genuine question about VZ's right to use the title Dr too arising from his Phd. Some problem with the issuing university, Pacific Western University of California now California Miramar University (an unaccredited proprietary institution of higher education) but it may only be rumour, so unless we see it we cannot accept this as true although VZ confirms this is the University involved in his own write up. In fact I guess people may be looking at his entire background now but I'm sure he will enlighten us further on all these issues.

[Jim]

Sorry I see the latter part had been covered. Thanks Z

[Jim]

I also note on VZ's record of his background his legal record, with his two outstanding cases occuring within the first two years after an admission as lawyer which must have been exciting. I note that he says both both are well recorded in newspapes so at some stage a chase through internet archives of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Sun in Sydney (both Fairfax Press) could give interested parties a chance to read all about it and get a deeper understanding of his abilities.
To quote Victor's record
"Victor’s admission as a Solicitor of the Supreme Court of New South Wales (admitted on 22nd July 1977) and the High Court of Australia (from 19th September 1977) – are a matter of governmental and lawyers’ records. ……
Victor worked as an attorney in the Local Courts, District and Supreme Courts in Sydney and then in 1993 he became a Company Law consultant and a lecturer in Corporations Law. …….
One significant legal matter Victor was involved in was the R v Borg case in 1979 when he was amongst the first to successfully use ‘dissociative reaction to provocation’ as a defence to murder at the District Court in Parramatta before Mr Justice Yeldham. This is a matter of public record and the case was also reported in The Sydney Morning Herald, a mainstream newspaper in the State of New South Wales………
In November 1978 the Premier of the State of New South Wales’, Mr Neville Wran Queen’s Counsellor, - the equivalent to a State Governor in the United States - appointed Victor with exclusive powers, authority and jurisdiction to enquire into the hostage shooting of Abou-Ali who was an innocent bystander and was taken as a hostage by an armed bank robber Dragosevich. The enquiry was to find out who shot dead the innocent hostage – the police or the bank robber. This procedure was similar to a formal Enquiry Commission. It was one of the most sensational and most controversial cases ever in Australia where Dragosevich, the bank robber, was shot dead by the police. A report on the case was published by the newspaper THE SUN on page 5 Tuesday November 12th 1978 (Fairfax Press), the journalist who reported the case was tough well known Sydney journalist, Peter Charley. Another tough journalist Andrews also reported extensively about it."

[Natal]

Hello i am a tranfiguration medium and i can do transfiguration in semi darkness.I have been to D.Thompson seance in Glasgow and i cant say im 100% convinced.I was being watched all the time by the Zerdin organisers and it made me feel something was wrong.In fact there were two seance and after iv been to the first i wasnt invited to watch the second.I spent a lot of money to travel from malta to Glasgow and i was mistreated.I still think that David is not a fraud but in the dark its a big problem to convince 100%.Anyone visiting Malta is wellcome.

[carolyn lindsay]

Hi, I do believe that there are psychics, true psychics, but very few and far between.

About David Thompson; in one of the comments, someone state that David Thompson admitted never manifesting a spirit. But I just read 30 different testimonials, and one by a psychic investigator, that said she saw the materialization of Timothy, and william. I am sorry, but I have my doubts too. Number one being, that in this day and age why are medium using the old "trumphet in the Air" act and writing on a chalk board tricks, when we are suppose to be so far advanced in the evidence of life after death. And something else. Why is it in the "EVP" recordings, the voices talk in direct sentences, but when a medium is talking with one of your loved ones, they are talking "charade like" giving symbols, and never , ever , just saying: Hi son, how are you , tell your mother I said HI" Instead; "Something about April, something that devastated you". Why would spirits have to talk through a medium like this , but yet when they materialize they talk in straight sentences, and when people have visitations, they talk normally to them too.

I live in Indiana, and we had a Psychic campground called: "camp Chesterfield". I used to go there, and they are full of crap. No one ever got anything right. Then there was a big falling out, and one of the "mediums" came forth and admitted that is was all a con job, and they laughed at their clients for believing, and told about their props and such. Really made me start thinking. But like I said, In this day and age, and with the genius of science; give me the explanation of quantum physics, EVP's, physic professors telling how we are discovering more dimensions to our universe, discovering the conscieousness, and give me the eastern ideas of Reki, meditation and prayer. I think myself that we can contact the spirits through out of body experiences, NDE's, and meditation.
Psychologist are now able to put people into trances and they have IADC's . This is the stuff I believe in, not flying trumpets, and writings on chalk boards.
These people are Charlatans plain and simple. I will go with quantums, and everyday science is getting closer and closer to proving the afterlife. Check out videos by Professor Radin.

[Natal]

Hi i would suggest that to proove the medium is not doing any tricks,two inches of sand spread on the floor surrounding the medium in the cabinet and at least two meters wide,so if the medium gets out of his cabinet his FOOT PRINTS will be printed in the sand!Also those who are in the room should be barefooted.Chairs should not be in rows but scattered around the room.

[Zerdini]

"About David Thompson; in one of the comments, someone state that David Thompson admitted never manifesting a spirit. But I just read 30 different testimonials, and one by a psychic investigator, that said she saw the materialization of Timothy, and william. I am sorry, but I have my doubts too."

Thompson admitted to me:

"My answer is simple, I totally agree at this point I am not a full form materialization medium that is able to display the evidence in good light for all to see."

The people who have claimed to have witnessed a materialization simply have no idea what a real materialization is.

They obviously believe without seeing anything.

The reason: It all takes place in complete darkness so how can anyone claim to have WITNESSED a materialization?

It's pure bunkum!

[carolyn lindsay]

And also, what is the reasoning to be behind a curtain? I doubt that the spirits care less whether David is behind a curtain or sitting in the chair in the dark in front of everyone. The fact that he is behind a curtain, where no one can possibly see him, is obviously, so that he can pull the wool over everyone eyes as he does his side show tricks. I would venture to say that there is a identical chair, that is dropped on the floor after the seance and Mr. Thompson silently runs to the chair afterwards. I imagine he has his own cord for his hands too. Lets take Mr. Thompson in a room without any of his protege, sit him in complete darkness in a chair in front of everyone without a curtain; and lets see if he produces ectoplasm and flying trumpets. He is making a mockery of the spiritual world and everyone else that believes this. Again, it's all about consciousness and the afterlife. I don't know about you but, I don't want a sideshow to convince me that I still live on after death, give me facts, and science is already coming very close to positive truth.
I myself have seen spirits, and other things, but I don't speak of this to people and It hasn't been in a seance or through a medium. Again, there are real mediums and psychics, adn such, but also the majority are charlatans out to get your money and publicity.

I say send the magician "Criss Angel"" to confront him and show you how he does his trick. Angel always says it is slight of the hand. Hell, he even showed how he levitates. I would bet to say he can show up David Thompson . Come on Criss; take a dare and show this guy up, and show us how we are being taken.

[Michael Prescott]

And also, what is the reasoning to be behind a curtain?

Physical mediums often say they need to be in an enclosed space to concentrate their energy.

The fact that he is behind a curtain, where no one can possibly see him, is obviously, so that he can pull the wool over everyone eyes as he does his side show tricks.

Since the room is pitch black, it would make no difference if he was behind a curtain or not.

I would venture to say that there is a identical chair, that is dropped on the floor after the séance and Mr. Thompson silently runs to the chair afterwards.

The rooms are always searched and sealed, so there would be no opportunity to smuggle in a second chair.

Again, there are real mediums and psychics, and such, but also the majority are charlatans out to get your money and publicity.

That's probably true, but I'm no longer so sure David Thompson is one of the charlatans.

[carolyn lindsay]

why don't we contact "Criss Angel". I know he would love the chance to show this guy up. If he couldn't show fraud then I believe it. Criss can get out of anything, and knows the tricks. Let's see if Thompson and Angel would be willing to do this. I can guarantee almost 100% angel would. He put Uri Geller to the test and he couldn't pass. Angel is always wanting to show the fraud in people. Like I said if anyone can show "con Artist" , "Fraud " he can.

[william]

If David is for real criss angel could be a danger to David Thompson.

Grabbing a medium or a manifestation in the middle of a séance could be dangerous to the medium.

Do we have the video of criss angel proving geller a fraud or do we have to take criss’s word for it.

[louise]

Hi

I have known Natal the Maltese transfiguration medium. Through his face, in semi-darkness I could see faces of my beloved ones such as my aunt and I could see also faces of Red Indians with paintings on their faces, feathers and long hair. I could also see faces of women, men with beard or moustache. In the beginning i was skeptic, but now, I really do think that Natal is a very good transfiguration medium. Keep up the good work!

[Zetetic_chick]

I agree with Caroline Lindsay that Criss Angel could be contacted to give support as an expert to examine David Thompson (and other mediums).

I don't know if Criss is easily reachable, but Michael P. once wrote that one of Criss's TV programm producers (a magician too) read this blog.

If Thompson isn't available, I think Zerdini could give us the names of some good current physical or materialisation mediums to be tested by Angel.

I think it's a good idea to examine under the most severe test conditions the claims of mediums. I guess that a real medium or psychics (e.g. Douglas Daniel Home or John Sloan) could provide good solid evidence under severe controlled experimental conditions.

If Angel gets a real medium, then is Angel who will have to admit that some mediums are real. If not, the fake medium will be exposed.

In cases of mediumship, I think the help of a trained magician/illusionist to make the test protocol is necessary to convince reasonable open-mind skeptics like most of us here.

[Zerdini]

I do not know any physical or materialization mediums at the present time that I would recommend with any confidence.

However, there is an alleged physical medium who is advertising on his website that he intends visiting the USA and Canada for five months from the end of September.

His name is Warren Caylor and you can see his website at:

http://www.warrencaylor.co.uk/

Maybe some readers of this blog may come across him in the near future. I believe he is visiting New York and also Toronto in Canada.

I would be very interested to hear your experiences if you come across him.

He recently backed out of a test seance, organised by the "Psychic News", at the last minute after agreeing to all the conditions laid down by the newspaper.

[Mickey D]

Warren Caylor has been caught in outright fraud on at least two occasions. See:
http://psychics.co.uk/psychic-forum/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=5051

He also charges huge $$$ for these shows.

[Guy Lyon Playfair]

The name I found in the Mormon Family History Centre in London was CADWELL, W C. If anyone doesn't believe me, go and look for yourself.

[Michael Prescott]

Thanks, Guy, for this information. It squares with what I'd already been told, but since there seemed to be some dispute about it, I couldn't be sure.

[guy Lyon Playfair]

A couple of things I'd like to add:
1. Nobody asked me for money for the session I attended.
2. Nothing I saw or heard before, during or after it suggested any kind of fraud. I have compared notes with Magic Circle member James Webster, who attended a session similar to mine, and he had the same opinion although he is an expert in magic fake mediumship.
3.I gagged and tied David up myself, and I'm surprised his blood circulation survived. He took it all very calmly and generally struck me as a very nice and honest fellow. I've met lots of psychic conpersons and don't think he was one of them.
4.Somebody did some very impressive harmonica playing and then popped the instrument into my shirt pocket with no fumbling. Not easy to fake that.
5.Yes, the address of the Enfield poltergeist house is probably on the internet somewhere, but if "researchers' had found that, why couldn't they get my name right?

All that said, this isn't an area I want to stay in as it never seems to lead anywhere except a lot of nitpicking and inaccurate allegations from people with no direct experience of what they think they are debunking.

I do hope some kind of useful research can be done with David Thompson, who definitely has a place in my WFY file (Worth Follow Up)

[Lis]

With respect, I feel it necessary to ask Mr Playfair in what record did he find CADWELL, W.C. in the Morman Family History Centre in London?

It has been suggested that no record of a death of any William Cadwell, or W.C. Cadwell has been found in the official Government Death Index records in 1897 or in the two years prior or after that year. This fact too can be easily checked in any Morman Family History Centre anywhere in the world.

I do not wish to suggest that Mr Playfair is not telling us the truth I do feel that rather more information about what he found and in what record is really necessary, especially if he maintains that he has found evidence for the existence of Mr Thompson's main guide and friend that no one else seem able to find in any death or census records.

I would therefore appreciate Mr Playfair enlightening us on this matter.

Lis

[Jim]

Hi All,

I agree with Lis a few more facts may help as we appear to have a serious genealogical researcher at odds with a major psychic researcher (and other genealogists agree with her position). As this is one area of research which does not require David Thompsons involvement surely it will be easily resolved.

I have also seen all the substantiating evidence like the official government death records and all the family history material from the LDS(mormon family history centres) in which the information about William Cadwell is lacking. However, I am certain if Guy provides the documentary source and maybe age at and plus place of death it will help.

For interest anyone interested in Guy Lyon Playfair's history and achievements a simple google will give you the following immediate result.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Lyon_Playfair
You will also find a good direct link to the Enfield Poltergeist. As Guy says so clearly (and Paul Barker indicated) David Thompson may be a worth following up but viable research is called for.

As Guy seems to have a direct line to the circle could he not persuaded David to reverse his 2002 position
http://www.cfpf.org.uk/letters/2002/2002-10-12_mr2dt.html
or his refusal to work with Prof Garry Schwartz at that time.

I do not think we are nit picking, Victor Zammit and David Thompson are making the most extaordinary claims about this mediumship. Surely in this case then some extra level of research and proof is needed. I think all of us who have been pursuing the facts have made it clear that this is why we see it as such an important issue.

One thing that may put me more at ease could Paul Barker confirm that none of the Haymist Circle knew how to or were learning the harmonica.

[Lis]

For the record here is a complete list of CADWELL deaths registered and recorded in the Government Record office Deaths Index between 1895 - 1900. The information includes the Quarter of the year in which the person died, their name, age at death, District in which death occurred and Volume and Page Reference.

1895
Jan - March Quarter - None
April - June Quarter - None

Jul - Sep Quarter - CADWELL
Beatrice 1 Luton V3b P246
Frank Andrew L 11 Wandsworth V1d P402
William 0 Burnely V8e P170

Oct - Dec Quarter CADWELL
Elizabeth 69 Redruth V5c P158

1896
Jan - March Quarter CADWELL
Elizabeth 50 Bolton V8c P294
John 57 Ormskirk V8b P552

Apr - June Quarter CADWELL
Enoch 78 Ormskirk V8b P499
John Stanley 1 Camberwell V1d P562

Jul - Sep Quarter CADWELL
Betty 0 Rochdale V8e P48
Ellen 42 Portsea V2b P301
Harry 0 Luton V3b P232

Oct - Dec Quarter CADWELL
Emily 71 St Saviour V1d P68
Gertrude Florence 6 Luton V3b P267
Peter 0 Ormskirk V8b P572

1897
Jan - March Quarter CADWELL
Caroline 66 Redruth V5c P168
James 51 Ormskirk V8b P537

Apr - June Quarter CADWELL
Edward 0 Whitehaven V10b P385

Jul - Sep Quarter CADWELL
Mary 46 Thame V8a P504

Oct - Dec Quarter CADWELL
Agnes 0 Rotherham V9c P403
Jane 5 Ormskirk V8b P567
Jane 4 Ormskirk V8b P540
Thomas 0 Burnely V8e P131

1898
Jan - March Quarter - None

Apr - June Quarter CADWELL
Jane Parker 16 Ormskirk V8b P542

Jul - Sep Quarter CADWELL
Ann 67 Ormskirk V8b P601
Betty Rimmer 0 Ormskirk V8b P617
Mary 0 Ormskirk V8b P614

Oct - Dec Quarter CADWELL
George William 0 Rotherham V9c P412
Robert 49 Rochdale V8e P19

1899
Jan - March Quarter CADWELL
Blanche 83 Redruth V5c P159
Sarah 66 Chesterfield V7b P472

Apr - June Quarter CADWELL
John 71 Ormskirk V8b P559

Jul - Sep Quarter CADWELL
Ernest Aubrey 0 Luton V3b P269
John 12 Wirral V8a P309
John 17 Ormskirk V8b P693

Oct - Dec Quarter CADWELL
Jane 0 Burnely V8e P132
Mary 84 Redruth V5c P150

1900
Jan - March Quarter - None

Apr - Jun Quarter CADWELL
Eliza Ellen 0 Hitchin V3a P326
Maria 1 Ormskirk V8b P581

Jul - Sep Quarter CADWELL
Ann 81 Ormskirk V8b P579

Oct - Dec Quarter CADWELL
John Carpenter 56 Leicester V7a P132

That is ALL the CADWELL DEATHS registered between 1895 and 1900.

I can supply actual images of all CADWELL deaths registered if you don't wish to take my word on this.

Since these are the only CADWELL deaths that have been recorded in the official deaths index I again ask Mr Playfair if he would be so kind as to provide us with the details of the record that he found.

Regards,

Lis

[Zerdini]

Guy Lyon Playfair wrote:

A couple of things I'd like to add:

1. “Nobody asked me for money for the session I attended.”

1.Completely irrelevant.

2. “Nothing I saw or heard before, during or after it suggested any kind of fraud. I have compared notes with Magic Circle member James Webster, who attended a session similar to mine, and he had the same opinion although he is an expert in magic fake mediumship.”

2. I know James Webster and would hardly describe him as an expert on “magic fake mediumship” He’s a magician like all magicians.

3.”I gagged and tied David up myself, and I'm surprised his blood circulation survived. He took it all very calmly and generally struck me as a very nice and honest fellow. I've met lots of psychic conpersons and don't think he was one of them.”

3. Also irrelevant.

4.”Somebody did some very impressive harmonica playing and then popped the instrument into my shirt pocket with no fumbling. Not easy to fake that.”

4. Who did the harmonica belong to? What was it doing in the séance room?

5.”Yes, the address of the Enfield poltergeist house is probably on the internet somewhere, but if "researchers' had found that, why couldn't they get my name right?”

5. That is a question you should ask David Thompson!

“All that said, this isn't an area I want to stay in as it never seems to lead anywhere except a lot of nitpicking and inaccurate allegations from people with no direct experience of what they think they are debunking.”

No-one is debunking anything - we are simply asking questions which no-one seems able to answer. Neither is it nitpicking nor are the allegations inaccurate.

“I do hope some kind of useful research can be done with David Thompson, who definitely has a place in my WFY file (Worth Follow Up)”

I agree as long as suitable protocols are followed.

[Lis]

On the old Spiritualist Chat Room site (transferred to the new SCR I understand) the suggestion was made that the information Mr Playfair had found was actually for a William CALDWELL who had died in 1898 or 1899.

Mr Playfair has on this thread made it clear

"The name I found in the Mormon Family History Centre in London was CADWELL, W C. If anyone doesn't believe me, go and look for yourself"

Nevertheless, in order that there be no uncertainty (some might think that William Charles CADWELL just might have been incorrectly recorded under the CALDWELL surname) I provide below a list of all William CALDWELL'S whose death were registered between 1895 - 1900. The CALDWELL name is significantly more common than that of CADWELL.

1895
Jan - March Quarter CALDWELL
William 56 W. Derby 8b 405 (b. 1839)

Apr - June Quarter CALDWELL
Henry William 3 Newcastle T 10b 84

Jul - Sep Quarter - no William's

Oct - Dec Quarter CALDWELL
William 0 W. Derby 8b 227

1896
Jan - March Quarter - no William's

Apr - June Quarter CALDWELL
William James 72 Marylebone 1a 386 (b. 1824)

Jul - Sep Quarter CALDWELL
William 40 W. Derby 8b 328 (b. 1856)

Oct - Dec Quarter CALDWELL
Wallace William 0 Newport M. 11a 127

1897
Jan - March Quarter CALDWELL
William Reginald 4 Toxteth Park 8b 180

Apr - Jun Quarter CALDWELL
William 76 Warrington 8c 125 (b. 1821)

Jul - Sep Quarter CALDWELL
William 55 Barrow F. 8e 583 (b. 1842)
William 87 Portsea 2b 319 (b. 1810)

Oct - Dec Quarter CALDWELL
William 57 W. Derby 8b 413 (b. 1840)
William 0 Warrington 8c 137

1898
Jan - March Quarter CALDWELL
William 67 Lambeth 1d 195 (b. 1831)

Apr - Jun Quarter - no William's

Jul - Sep Quarter - no William's

Oct - Dec Quarter - no William's

1899
Jan - March Quarter CALDWELL
William 62 Prestwich 8d 554 (b. 1837)

Apr - Jun Quarter CALDWELL
William 67 Leigh 8c 137 (b. 1832)
William 26 Newcastle T 10b. 51 (b. 1873)

Jul - Sep Quarter CALDWELL
William 59 W. Derby 8b 544 (b. 1840)

Oct - Dec Quarter - no William's

1900
Jan - March Quarter CALDWELL
William 73 Prestwich 8d 358 (b. 1827)
William 71 Lutterworth 7a 3 (b. 1829)

Apr - Jun Quarter CALDWELL
William 69 Toxteth Park 8b 201 (b. 1831)
William George 45 Holborn 1b 409 (b. 1855)

Jul - Sep Quarter CALDWELL
William 0 Runcorn 8a 135

Oct - Dec Quarter CALDWELL
William 0 Oldham 8d 482

May I point out that none of these CALDWELL William's are William Charles. None lived in London and none died in London area in 1897. I have also tracked all these William CALDWELL through the census records and established that they did not live in London area, and were not "a man of science" nor involved in publishing of scientific material. None were incorrectly recorded as CALDWELL on the Death Registration Index but previously recorded in census data as CADWELL.

The same applies to all the William CADWELL'S that are recorded. They can all be tracked through the various census records between 1841 and 1901. No William Charles, or W.C. or William CADWELL fitting the information provided by "William Charles CADWELL" - Mr Thompson's guide - can be found in the census records.

It is for this reason that I am so interested in what Mr Playfair has apparently found at the London Morman Family History Centre. Especially since there is no IGI record, no Ancestral File record and no other submission or extract Birth, Death or Marriage, on the Morman Family History website relating to a William Charles Cadwell, or W.C. Cadwell.

Please help us out here Mr Playfair in the interests of research. I understand that you are a serious investigator and so feel sure that you would have available the details of the record you found.

Regards,

Lis

[Jim]

Just a point to show how easy it is to find out about people, especially well known ones. Really before Guy Lyon Playfair mentioned James Webster I knew little about him or his involvement with the Scole Experiments (which I know David Thompson is fascinated by and whilst with us tried to link himself to in a way that I now forget because it was so obscure)

Seems quite appropriate in such a subject to find a link to him from Simon Forsyths Psychic Times, a paper which Victor Zammit is so incandescent about, to James Webster.

Just scroll to the bottom of the page
http://www.thepsychictimes.com/links2.htm

You may also wish to refresh yourself on the Allan Crossley controversy, with Victor and David, while you are there and the 1,000 pound challenge.

alternatively that page takes you to
http://www.jamesw.clara.net/

So you all know who Guy Lyon Playfair and James Webster are, if you did not before. Took a few minutes.

[Zerdini]

Playfair wrote:

"The name I found in the Mormon Family History Centre in London was CADWELL, W C. If anyone doesn't believe me, go and look for yourself."

I did go and look for myself at five years before and after 1897 and did not find a W.C. Cadwell.

So come on Playfair- produce the evidence of your statement.

[guy Lyon Playfair]

When I get a spare afternoon I'll go round to the FHC and check whether I was hallucinating last time.

[Lis]

Hi Guy,

Thanks for that - I do hope that you will find to visit the FHC soon - and hopefully you were not "hallucinating last time"!

I really am a serious researcher and have been a genaeologist for over 10 years but I am always willing to accept new evidential information if someone is able to provide it. (if this site had smiley's I would put one in here).

Seriously, I do hope that if there is information that contradicts the Death Index records you can share it with us. The issue of David Thompson's guide is an important one. So much of what goes on in his seances relies on the intregrity of this entity and to substantiate, if possible, his existence, since the entity himself places so much reliance on his existence 1830 -1897, would certainly help to resolve one of the issues around David Thompson's mediumship.

Regards,

Lis

[Guy Lyon Playfair]

In view of the passions Mr Cadwell still seems to arouse, I went through my 2003 notebook and found this for December:

'Mormon FHC: William Charles Cadwell, b. 1843 London. Only one'. [meaning no other Cadwells on file]

I didn't note date of death which I should have, and next time I'm down that way I'll pop in and check.

[Zerdini]

Thank you.

[Zerdini]

.....you may also care to answer my previously posed question viz:

4.”Somebody did some very impressive harmonica playing and then popped the instrument into my shirt pocket with no fumbling. Not easy to fake that.”

4. Who did the harmonica belong to? What was it doing in the séance room?

Z

[Lis]

Thank you for clarifying what information you had found Guy. I can further enlighten you on the William Charles Cadwell you have mentioned.

He was in fact born on Aug 4 1842 in St Martins in the Fields, the son of William Andrew Cadwell and Ann Adam. His father was a Waterman and W.C. was not actually christened until a year after his birth, on 2 Aug 1843 at St Martins.

In 1861 (at Census time) this William Charles Cadwell was residing at 3 Brewer St Chelsea with his parents. He was recorded as being 18 and a Gilder by occupation.

Sadly, this William Charles Cadwell died at the age of 23 in the December Quarter of 1865 (GRO Deaths Dec Q 1865 Chelsea 1a 141). His father William Andrew Cadwell died aged 59 in 1870 (Dec Q 1870 Chelsea 1a 172).

It is obvious that this William Charles Cadwell is not the "etherean" who claims to be William Charles CADWELL born 1830 died 1897.

It would seem that this supposed entity did not have the physical life they claim and this gives rise to serious concerns about the validity of the apparent communications from this "William Charles Cadwell".

I am grateful to you for being so honest and providing the information you discovered and for confirming there was no other one in the records.

Back on Sep 27 2007 David Thompson wrote on the SCR, when referring to his various guides:

"my main friend and contact is: William Charles Cadwell, who passed in 1897. (William was check up by the SPR when Monty Keen did his report into my mediumship and was found)."

Subsequently, when the statement which appeared to suggest Montegue Keen had found 'Cadwell', was challenged, and Keen's wife confirmed he had not searched for this information, David Thompson then claimed that it was you who had done the research and had confirmed that his 'guide' William Charles Cadwell had been born 1830 and died 1897.

Clearly, the brief piece of information on the existence of a W. C. Cadwell noted by you does not do that.

I can state that in 2006 Mr Thompson, when a guest at our Spiritualist organization informed me directly that evidence of Cadwell's life and death had been found and had confirmed his earthly existence.

It is obvious that this was not the case.

Regards,

Lis

[Lis]

In early December 2007, I wrote to Victor Zammit, in part to advize him that after "extensive research, including examination of death records, census records" I felt certain that no William Charles Cadwell had died in 1897 nor in the years prior or after.

I pointed out to Mr Zammit the census records show that there were at any time between 1841 and 1901 only a dozen or less people with the name William Cadwell living in the UK. None lived in areas which would produce the 'home counties' accent displayed by Mr Thompson 'guide' William.

I also informed Mr Zammit that I had searched for evidence for an existence of Timothy Booth, another of Thompson's seance 'guides' who, it is claimed by Thompson, was born in 1899 in London and died in the same area in 1908.

I confirmed that no one by the name of Timothy Booth was born in 1899 anywhere in the UK and also that no such person died in 1908 anywhere in England.

Mr Zammit did reply to my correspondence, however, he took the rather odd precaution of heading his response PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL so I may not quote from his reply.

Nevertheless, much of what Mr Zammit wrote, he has conveyed elsewhere on other occasions and so it is available to me to say that Mr Zammit appears not to be worried that William Charles Cadwell's or Timothy Booth's or the details of any other member of the spirit team, or those who purport to attend such as Louis Armstrong, Arthur Conan Doyle, Ghandi, etc, have not been or cannot be objectify validated.

Indeed, objective validation that they are who they claim to be is, apparently, not important. The identity of any transmitting entity is certainly less important as far as Mr Zammit is concerned than the information passed on by these objectively unconfirmed entities.

I personally find this view rather puzzling. The whole purpose of materialisation phenomena is to provide incontrovertible evidence of survival over physical death. To do that requires the existence of a person who provably had a physical life, who has died, returns in the seance room and via direct voice, or other forms of verbal communication, or via materialisation of a ectoplasmic facsimile of their previous physical body, demonstrates identifiable, convincing evidence that they are who they say they are.

It is not sufficient, in a totally darkened room for a disembodied voice to claim they are Willliam Charles Cadwell, or Louis Armstrong, Ghandi, Doyle, etc., and yet fail to provide any information that can confirm their identity.

It is not sufficient, in a totally darkened room to claim that a 'materialised' spirit person is moving around the room, unseen by anyone. To claim that such is actually 'materialisation' taking place is totally at odds with what materialisation is actually about. Nothing is being proved regarding survival.

Regards,
Lis

[Jim]

I am glad that we have got to the bottom of the real facts about the supposed life of William Charles Cadwell David Thompsons main guide and the convenor of his “spirit team” born 1830 died 1897 a Londoner and man of science. With Guy Lyon Playfair’s help we know that the final apparent claim of his existence has been disproved.

This gives a very serious problem because David is promoted as the most important living medium proving survival, by both COSC and Victor Zammit. Yet the main guide and “spirit” convening all events has told David something that is not true. Timothy Booth did not exist either, his life does not appear in the official UK birth and death records. We also know back in 2003 Psychic Times reported on a séance at Cober Hill where Timothy said he knew William in the physical yet gave a birth date subsequently several years after Williams claimed death date.

Given his record in not being who he says we must have much greater concern about what he says. William has said things which are incorrect, hurtful and could be downright dangerous. Séance recordings show William recommending that pregnant women, who may be concerned about Downs Syndrome, should take Aspirin once they know they are pregnant to help prevent it. Any medical practioner will tell you that a genetic defect cannot be prevented after conception and Aspirin is dangerous to pregnant women except in specific medically controlled states. William also told of a direct link between AIDS and Downs Syndrome, something obviously incorrect and hurtful to many.

William is also the convenor for all the guest spirits even the psychic surgeon. Now Paul Barker has confirmed that, at that same Cober Hill event, Dr S the surgeon told a cancer patient he did not have cancer although she died of cancer two weeks later. He also told a woman who recently had a breast removed for cancer she should not have had the operation. We can also give instances of events from his appearance for us in Adelaide.

William also brings the celebrities “fru”. If you go to my forum here http://spiritualismlink.forumotion.com/physical-mediumship-f5/the-curious-case-of-david-thompson-and-victor-zammit-t132-15.htm
You can listen to some voice comparisons of various “people”. You can also check Simon Forsyth’s Psychic Times re Allan Crossley here http://www.thepsychictimes.com/zammit.htm
I am not even going to Louis Armstrong, any man who would say “that trumpet comes first, before anything, even my wife” would materialise his instrument (physical mediumship records show this has happened Z may add extra light) rather than play the harmonica. Either that or he would do some “Heebie Jeebies” style scat a method of singing which he created. There are also many intricate questions that could be asked as there are some wonderful snippets of odd information about him. However as with all the “visitors” minimum questions are asked by all the circle members.

So if William and Timothy are not real as they have claimed what weight can we put on what they supposedly produce in the séance room especially when all of this occurs in the dark.

Thanks Guy Lyon Playfair for sharing the brief research you did, which I am sure you never intended to be used n the way it has. Maybe you will agree that given the nature of the claims made for David it is time he agreed to undergo scientific research to validate his mediumship if possible

[Lis]

Hi Michael,

May I draw your attention to comments made in your statement at the top of this thread?

You wrote:
"When questions arose about the reality of Thompson's purported spirit control, a certain William C. Cadwell, Playfair did some research in Mormon family history records and apparently found there was a William C. Cadwell who died within one year of the date of death given by Thompson's "William." There seems to be some question as to whether the person Playfair uncovered was named Cadwell or Caldwell. (As I am told Guy Playfair sometimes reads this blog, perhaps he can be prevailed upon to clear this up.)* Moreover, some people say it couldn't be Thompson's "William" because the spirit control claimed to have come from London and the person listed in the Mormon records lived in a different part of England. According to my correspondent, however, the Mormon records did not list Cadwell/Caldwell's place of origin. In any event, there does appear to be at least some support for the existence of a William C. Cadwell/Caldwell in the appropriate timeframe."

Subsequently, you added:

"[*Update, September 12: In the comments thread (below), Guy Lyon Playfair confirms that the name he found in the Mormon records was W. C. Cadwell.]"

With respect, might I suggest that it would now be appropriate, indeed, vitally important, that you insert into your original statement a further correction which conveys the true state of affairs with regard to this aspect of Mr Thompson's purported 'control' and his mediumship.

Mr Playfair has now clarified for us all that the Cadwell W.C. that he discovered was not born in 1830, and he did not establish a date of death for this person. Also that his note to himself makes clear he did not find any other William Charles Cadwell.

This, coupled with the fact that others have clearly established there are no records supportive of the existence of Mr Thompson's 'control' and that Thompson's claims Playfair and the SPR had done so, are entirely erroneous, is of such significance that to do other than enter this into your original statement would result in a misrepresentative picture of the situation.

Many people view your blog, however, this thread is now long and many issues have been raised. It is your primary statement that will influence many people and your present insertion which appears to support the validity of "William" may result in many not bothering to read on through all the subsequent discussion. In other words the truth may remain obscured.

In the interests of fairness and the important need for the real facts to be made clear I hope that you will correct the current situation as soon as possible.

It would also seem appropriate to advise your correspondent of the correct facts now made available.

Regards,
Lis

[Lis]

Michael,

I am saddened that you have not made any response to my comments. Whatever you find yourself believing about the mediumship of David Thompson, the fact that both his 'main control' and the purported guide who is claimed to be an "expert in producing the ectoplasm" have clearly been shown not to have existed as they, and David Thompson, claim.

We should not hide this fact away but openly acknowledge it if the question of Thompson's mediumship is to be honestly and fairly evaluated.