Tolle and toil

For some time I've been interested in mindfulness meditation, particularly as espoused by Eckhart Tolle. One thing I've discovered is that, for me, it's much easier to get into and maintain this state of mind if I'm doing something goal-oriented. In other words, when sitting and meditating, or even when taking a leisurely walk, I'm apt to let my mind wander, and soon the distracting thoughts start crowding in. But if I'm actively engaged in a project, I can stay in the meditative state for a much longer time, and the positive effects last longer afterward.

The best activity I've found is cleaning house. Any sort of cleaning - whether dusting, mopping up, or organizing items in my closet - seems to work. Ordinarily I hate cleaning, but using it as an opportunity to meditate makes it much more enjoyable. As a a bonus, I find that in the "mindful" state I'm more aware of what needs to be done and I'm more efficient in doing it.

So if you've had trouble learning Tolle's techniques, try picking up a wet rag! It works for me.  

Comments

[Ross W]

I think that's a brilliant discovery on your part, Michael. It reminds me of the "Fetching wood carrying water" mindfulness of Zen Buddhism. If only it could be taught in schools.

[Bryan.A]

As the young people like me say in the internet world...."LOL".Your conclusion certainly is a funny one.I might give it a shot just for kicks so I could kill 2 flies in one hit and make the girlfriend happy.

There are lots of different types of meditation for different purposes. If you want to do concentration meditation and your mind is too turbulent, combine meditation with affirmations or relaxation exercises.
Start with counting the breath (which is a common method of meditation, I won't explain here). Counting ten breaths 1-10, then say an affirmation or do a short relaxation exercise. Then count breaths 11-20, and say a different affirmation or do a different relaxation exercise. Continue like this. When you get up to 50 - 100 breaths (it's not that important how many cycles you do) start over and 1 and repeat the whole thing for as long as you like 20-40 minutes is a typical meditation session). Because you have to pay attention to say the right affirmation or do the right relaxation exercise at the right time you attnetion is much less likely to wander.

On the other hand sometimes the places your mind wanders can be psychologically beneficial places to explore.

[Art]

A few years ago I had a mystical experience while doing dishes. My wife and I had gone into town, which was about 45 minutes away to one of her meetings. So after we got back I went into the kitchen and started doing dishes. I was starring out the window as I washed, sort of "zoning out", not really thinking about anything when a voice (it was a "not me" voice) popped into my head and said "Bonnie's going to come in here and say, 'thanks for going with me'." About a minute later Bonnie walked into the kitchen and said those exact words, "thanks for going with me." It was so weird because when I heard that voice I knew it was real and that it was going to happen, and it was sort of nice because it gave me time to think of a reply. That is the only time I've heard an actual voice in my head that told me what was fixing to happen.

[Art]

I once had a mystical experience while doing dishes. My wife and I had gone into town, which was about 45 minutes away to one of her meetings. So after we got back I went into the kitchen and started doing dishes. I was starring out the window as I washed, sort of "zoning out", not really thinking about anything when a voice (a "not me" voice) popped into my head and said "Bonnie's going to come in here and say, 'thanks for going with me'." About a minute later Bonnie walked into the kitchen and said those exact words, "thanks for going with me." It was so weird because when I heard that voice I knew it was real and that it was going to happen, and it was sort of nice because it gave me time to think of a reply. That is the only time I've heard an actual voice in my head that told me what was fixing to happen.

[Art]

I'm sorry, I don't know why it posted twice. The first time I thought it had disappeared, so posted it again. I had checked and didn't see it, and then the second time I tried posting it, there it was again!

[Hope Rivers]

Try doing it driving the car. Twice I drove on autopilot not intentionally (although mind was focused on a thought) and when I regained my awareness I realised what had happened and suprised I hadnt crashed the car. I certainly must have had angels taken over the wheel. I drove at least 1km in this state.

I find Gardening easier to get into the meditative zone than house cleaning, and its the best time for those "random messages" like you described Art.

[Michael H]

In other words, when sitting and meditating, or even when taking a leisurely walk, I'm apt to let my mind wander, and soon the distracting thoughts start crowding in.

This is a excellent short description of the "busy mind" that we've all become so accustomed to living with in the West.

I agree that a task-oriented approach is a good way to learn to begin to understand our own varying states-of-mind. The thing is, there are many, many people that experience this state regularly, but don't see it as a state-of-mind. Athletes and musicians are some of the best examples - the top performers shift into a state of single-minded focus all of the time while performing. It's impossible to do what they do otherwise.

Practicing mindfulness is a great way to familiarize ourselves with a quiet mind, and even the frustration of noticing the thoughts crowding in during a walk is helpful. The psychologist George Pransky once referred to busy-mindedness as the most widespread, undiagnosed mental health problem in the world today. Anyone that begins to notice their own version of the affliction will tend to agree with him.

[Ross W]

"Twice I drove on autopilot not intentionally (although mind was focused on a thought) and when I regained my awareness I realised what had happened and suprised I hadnt crashed the car. I certainly must have had angels taken over the wheel. I drove at least 1km in this state."

Hope, I once read of a youngster who sleepwalked to his father's car and drove 30 miles to the next city, yet he hadn't even learned to drive! He was a bit confused when he woke up. Of course, it's possible he was just a very good liar ;-)

But some philosophies say that almost everything we do is conditioned. The older we are, the more we get "set in our ways" because we just follow the same old conditioning...do it the way we've done it before, on autopilot. Creativity is breaking old habits or inviting in new ideas. I wonder what sort of meditating Michael was doing.

[Michael Prescott]

I wonder what sort of meditating Michael was doing.

If you mean me, I just try to stop my mental chatter - to turn off the "voice in my head" that comments on things at random. The idea is to function wordlessly, as much as possible, for as long as possible.

[Ross W]

"The idea is to function wordlessly, as much as possible, for as long as possible."

Interesting ambition for an author! Is it a kind of holiday?!

[Ross W]

Listening to Bach's violin concertos lets me operate wordlessly for a while. I wonder if that counts as meditation.

[william]

I read somewhere that it is easier to conquer a country than conquer your mind. I suspect there may be some truth to that statement. When I used to meditate for long periods of time twice I reached an inner place I cannot explain (no thoughts flowing?) but the rest of the day it left me very blissful. Even several people commented how blissful I looked with an aura around me. Cannot explain it.

Once while meditating I reached a point where I did not have to breath. Weirdest thing I have ever known. Have no idea how long it went on but there was no desire to breathe. No shortage of breath or gasping. I thought I had left this world. It was so peaceful and no fear at all. I finally opened my eyes and then returned instantly to breathing.

[Teri]

William...so why do you not meditate much now? Did it become boring? I have found that in the end meditation takes you nowhere. It's a temporary reprieve from life and it loses its appeal when you realise it takes time and has no lasting benefit.

The problem with Tolle is that he claims you will get enlightenment from reading his books. This is rubbish. The number of people who get enlightenment is minsicule and therefore doing anything in particular with the goal of getting enlightenment is almost certainly a waste of time.

However there are many benefits to meditation and mindfulness and the exercises he recommends are standard buddhist practice and there is nothing wrong with them.

Furthermore, most people completely misunderstand meditation. Meditation is not an exercise where you sit with your mind still. It is an exercise where you give your mind a chance to calm down and become still. At the beginning of a meditation session the mind will be active. At the end it will be calmer. Most people live busy and active lives which gives the mind plenty of reasons to become turbulent. It is not realistic to think that after 20-30 minutes of meditation your mind will calm down to an absolute stand still. You can live a simpler life or meditate more. This is where mindfulness practices like cleaning meditation can play an important role by allowing one to live life but continue to meditate beyond the amount of sitting meditation that is practical.

[filip vd]

Terri Wrote: "William...so why do you not meditate much now? Did it become boring? I have found that in the end meditation takes you nowhere. It's a temporary reprieve from life and it loses its appeal when you realise it takes time and has no lasting benefit."

Meditation is not meant to take you anywhere. Where would truth be if not where you are? If you expected to get somewhere with meditation then that is a stumbling block. Once the searching stops, the answers comes. One of the core teachings of buddhism is impermanence, expecting some lasting effects for ever is quite contradictory to that...
If the ocean is our life with the waves showing its ups and downs then we can learn how to surf the waves while recognizing we are the water. From superficial waves till unbelieveble depth...

krgds,
Filip

[Teri]

Filip..."Once the searching stops, the answer comes."

'Seek and ye shall find' type simple truisms are rarely helpful. They're just pretty verse. I would dare to suggest that anyone looking at or contributing to this blog is searching, and most of the time, is not finding. Tell me I'm wrong.

[Michael H]

Evidence regarding the health benefits of meditation is one of the areas that science is confirming the validity of spiritual practice. Psychology Today published a brief synopsis of one of these studies in 2003:

Neuroscientists have found that meditators shift their brain activity to different areas of the cortex - brain waves in the stress-prone right frontal cortex move to the calmer left frontal cortex. This mental shift decreases the negative effects of stress, mild depression and anxiety. There is also less activity in the amygdala, where the brain processes fear.

The researchers found that the meditators showed a pronounced shift in activity to the left frontal lobe. In other words, they were calmer and happier than before.

There’s also evidence that meditation leads to physical changes in the brain itself:

Researchers at Harvard, Yale, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology have found the first evidence that meditation can alter the physical structure of our brains. Brain scans they conducted reveal that experienced meditators boasted increased thickness in parts of the brain that deal with attention and processing sensory input.

In one area of gray matter, the thickening turns out to be more pronounced in older than in younger people. That's intriguing because those sections of the human cortex, or thinking cap, normally get thinner as we age.

"Our data suggest that meditation practice can promote cortical plasticity in adults in areas important for cognitive and emotional processing and well-being," says Sara Lazar, leader of the study and a psychologist at Harvard Medical School.

Meditators did Buddhist "insight meditation," which focuses on whatever is there, like noise or body sensations. It doesn't involve "om," other mantras, or chanting.

Insight meditation can be practiced anytime, anywhere. "People who do it quickly realize that much of what goes on in their heads involves random thoughts that often have little substance," Lazar comments. "The goal is not so much to 'empty' your head, but to not get caught up in random thoughts that pop into consciousness."

The increased thickness of gray matter is not very much, 4 to 8 thousandths of an inch. "These increases are proportional to the time a person has been meditating during their lives," Lazar notes. "This suggests that the thickness differences are acquired through extensive practice and not simply due to differences between meditators and nonmeditators."

As small as they are, you can bet those differences are going to lead to lots more studies to find out just what is going on and how meditation might better be used to improve health and well-being, and even slow aging.

Since this type of meditation counteracts the natural thinning of the thinking surface of the brain, could it play a role in slowing - even reversing - aging? That could really be mind-boggling in the most positive sense.

Lazar is cautious in her answer. "Our data suggest that one small bit of brain appears to have a slower rate of cortical thinning, so meditation may help slow some aspects of cognitive aging," she agrees. "But it's important to remember that monks and yogis suffer from the same ailments as the rest of us. They get old and die, too. However, they do claim to enjoy an increased capacity for attention and memory."

Where would truth be if not where you are?

This is one of those statements that appears to be a ridiculous bromide, yet contains infinite depth. The thing about these statements is that they appear to be complete nonsense, until someone realizes that they aren’t. No one can prove this to anyone else, but everyone can prove it to themselves.

And I can only speak for myself, Teri, but I hang out here just to see how thoroughly I can confuse everyone else! How am I doing?

:-)

[Hope Rivers]

"I would dare to suggest that anyone looking at or contributing to this blog is searching, and most of the time, is not finding. Tell me I'm wrong".

Well Terry why are you here? And no one is going to tell you your wrong, if they did you wouldn't listen, most people here have their own unique views and wouldn't appreciate being told their wrong either.

The idea is share idea's without being a persistant fulltime "knocker" of others idea's and beliefs.

You really should think about that last comment, when you said most of the time, those looking at this blog is not finding.

How would you honestly know the answer to that unless your God, who ultimately sees the long term results of this blog and no doubt contributes in many of the thoughts of those here willing to seek and listen.

New ideas and new ways of looking at things can lead some people to becoming freer, have more hope and faith in what feels like it is the "truth" for them.

There are lots of people that come here from various backgrounds,(some don't believe in God, some think they do but then still have doubts, some are depressed and see doom or hopelessness etc), one of those people could read something here that maybe be the catalyst to researching the afterlife and maybe someday having a new hope or slant on this life, that could make all the difference to living life happier and with more peace.

I certainly think that even if one person gains some freedom from a mindset of hopelessless to one with hope, this blog has served a life saving purpose.

[william]

“William...so why do you not meditate much now?” Teri I was one of those people that meditated to achieve something. When I discovered that reincarnation was probably a reality I thought I could become enlightened through meditation. Where did I get such an idea? I was studying enlightened Hindu’s at the time.

Well of course it did not enlighten me but I am glad that I did those years of meditation. And who knows maybe it had something to do with my discovery about the necessity of our unawareness for perceived individual identities to exist.

As far as Tolle someone loaned me his audiotapes and one day I heard him say on the tapes “we humans have fallen from the grace of god” I could not believe what I had just heard. I replayed it several times to make sure I had heard him right. Could not find that statement in his book.

I spent time with people that had been doing meditation for many years sometimes over 25 years. I did not see a correlation with their level of compassion for self and others between those that had done meditation when compared to those that had not done meditation. My sample size was small and therefore inconclusive. I suspect there is a correlation.

So interesting I do recommend meditation. If nothing else it will teach you it may be easier to conquer a country than control your mind. When we look at the history of the world this is self-evident.

I work with colored lights now and that is somewhat meditative.

[filip vd]

'Seek and ye shall find' type simple truisms are rarely helpful. They're just pretty verse. I would dare to suggest that anyone looking at or contributing to this blog is searching, and most of the time, is not finding. Tell me I'm wrong.

Teri what are you searching?

[Teri]

filip..."what are you searching?"

For the meaning of life and how we can happily co-exist. A simple, straightforward answer, without confusion or contradiction.

[Filip vd]

The meaning of life.
Do you think an answer without confusion or contradiction is possible in words?

[Art]

?For the meaning of life and how we can happily co-exist. A simple, straightforward answer, without confusion or contradiction. - filip
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The meaning of life? The purpose of life is to experience duality and separation, time and space, and imprint memories of what it's like to live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe. As far as "happily co-existing?" It's not going to happen. Duality and separation are inherent and inescapable properties of the physical universe. The good thing is though is that after we die our souls will look back on the time they spent in the physical universe like it was a dream.
excerpt from Michelle M's NDE:
"I felt an understanding about life, what it was, is. As if it was a dream in itself. It's so very hard to explain this part. I'll try, but my words limit the fullness of it. I don't have the words here, but I understood that it really didn't matter what happened in the life experience, I knew/understood that it was intense, brief, but when we were in it, it seemed like forever. I understood that whatever happened in life, I was really ok, and so were the others here."
http://nderf.org/michelle_m's_nde.htm

[TShan Doyle]

I see 'meditation' as analogous to 'exercise'. So many reasons and motivations, from vanity to relaxation to development.

One major benefit, and maybe already noted, is meditation's teasing apart the mind's tendency to identify with form, however subtle, and relax into the 'ground'- not always 'figuring' for a change. Relaxing into space, the fullness and emptiness of Being.

So many types and styles of meditation, and some are very right and some are very wrong for any given person- finding the right path for your constitution is crucial! 'One size fits all' approaches are ubiquitous and suspicious.......

[Teri]

Filip..."The meaning of life.
Do you think an answer without confusion or contradiction is possible in words?"

While I was trying to meditate again, a thought occurred to me: there are 7 billion people in the world. It only takes one to discover the answer and want to broadcast it far and wide. So the odds seem pretty good to me.

[william]

"I see 'meditation' as analogous to 'exercise'. So many reasons and motivations, from vanity to relaxation to development."

Very well stated. Excellent analogy.

filip: if we were moving to another country and had not been there before we would want to ask questions about what it is like in that new country. What to wear, what the weather is like, what the people are like, etc. Does it not make sense that some would want to know what it is like after we cross over even if we have to use mere words?

Findlay talks about this very thing in his book on the edge of the etheric. I found it a very enjoyable book to read. The experiences he had with the medium Sloan were out of this world. I.e. pun intended.

“I don't have the words here, but I understood that it really didn't matter what happened in the life experience”

I am not sure this is true Art. The choices we make in this life appear to affect what conditions we find ourselves in our next life in the astral world. A very misguided person in this life can find themselves in a place with very misguided people in the astral world. Like attracts like as it is in this world. I suspect a NDE gives us a snapshot of the other side. But then Newton’s books on life between lives would I think agree with your above statement but not spiritualism.

As I have stated on here before I tend to agree at this time with the spirits that come through a medium that have been there for a period of time. And they tell a different story than the quote above

[Michael H]

For the meaning of life and how we can happily co-exist. A simple, straightforward answer, without confusion or contradiction.

The previous comment about trying to confuse everyone else, though slightly tongue-in-cheek, does contain what I consider to be an important point. It has been my experience that it is impossible to discover new insights about the nature of existence until I am willing to release what I already accept as true. 20 years ago I was as certain as I could be that Ayn Rand’s philosophy of Objectivism was the best articulation yet as to the answers to the big questions, and I was really frustrated that so many other people didn’t recognize that. But I also had a feeling that she had missed something important, though I couldn’t put my finger on it. Something just felt “off”.

Thirteen years ago I had a profound insight into the nature of my own perception of reality that that left me as maybe the most contrarian contributor to these threads, in my insistence that all of existence is fundamentally subjective in nature, and that the only thing that prevents any of us from realizing this is our willingness to accept our own perceptions of reality as absolute. The investigation of spiritual, religious and philosophical thought that I’ve undertaken since, combined with my observations of certain aspects of the ‘objective’ reality we all share (including ‘paranormal’ phenomena), has done nothing but confirm that the immediately preceding statement is correct. This is not a new suggestion in any way. It is nothing but the expression in simple, contemporary terms of the idealist philosophy that is hidden behind the symbolism of every ancient culture on earth, and that our current society has almost completely lost sight of.

I can only speak for myself, but the best answer I can come up with as to the “purpose of life”, is that we are here to discover who we really are; and again speaking solely for myself, understanding that every human being on earth is at their own individual stage of that process allows me to happily coexist with others. I’ve also discovered that these two concepts appear to be directly related: the more I remember the former, the more I happily coexist in a troubled world. The reverse also appears true: the degree of discontent I feel relates to the degree I’ve lost sight of what I’m here for and vice versa. Cultivating a meditative state-of-mind, just a little distance between ‘thought’ and ‘reality’, helps me maintain some perspective.

This all ties in with Michael’s observations from earlier this week regarding worldviews. As I mentioned in that thread, I see us as existing in a place with 6.7 billion worldviews. I can read the commentary of the contributors here, and I will see some statements that I completely agree with, and others that I vehemently disagree with. Sometimes I will see examples of both in a single comment. And I’m sure that others reading whatever I may write experience the same thing. Everyone might benefit from considering a comment from a Buddhist parable that speaks to this:

"All truths should be used to cross over; they should not be held on to once you have arrived. You should let go of even the most profound insight or the most wholesome teaching; all the more so, unwholesome teachings."

As someone who has experienced some profound personal insights, I can attest to how difficult this is to actually do. At the same time, I’ll continue to state that I understand reality itself as ultimately subjective in nature, which is in direct conflict with nearly every common and accepted worldview on earth. What I don't do is ask anyone to believe it, only to consider that it might be true. I also don’t intend anything I may ever write to be interpreted as threatening to anyone, in any way, though some may interpret it as very threatening. We are not trapped in some sort of bizarre Matrix, forever beyond our control. We are just highly susceptible to accepting our current ideas about reality as absolute, and the first step in learning more about reality, including "who we are", is a willingness to question what we’ve come to accept. That's been my experience, anyway.

I think we all have a utopian vision of existence that we like to entertain. Richard Dawkins envisions a utopia of 6.7 billion Dawkins clones, while radical Islam envisions a utopia of 6.7 billion subjects of Sharia law. Many others envision a utopia remaining forever beyond the terrestrial plane that awaits us only following death. I envision a utopia of 6.7 billion human beings right here on earth understanding that they're all experiencing a unique, individual perspective on life in the moment, and that their current perspective can change in a heartbeat.

None of these visions are likely to occur anytime soon, but only the latter requires no adherence to any belief system or worldview whatsoever. Learning to cultivate a contemplative or meditative state-of-mind may lead us to discover some insights regarding our own worldviews, at which point we are free to accept or reject any of our unique ideas about life itself.

[Art]

I am not sure this is true Art. The choices we make in this life appear to affect what conditions we find ourselves in our next life in the astral world. - William
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Everyone becomes enlightened upon entering the light. It depends on whether you believe in free will or not. I don't. I think free will is an illusion created by the brain. In a holographic universe everything has all ready happened. Past, present, and future all ready all exist together. I'm fairly certain that everything happens for a reason, even the bad stuff. NDE's and the holographic universe agree with each other.

from Jame's E's NDE:
"I knew why there was bad in the world, I knew why there was good, I knew that every little thing that will ever occur here, is exactly planned out, in order to bring about something else. Everything we have ever done or known or will know, is perfectly planned out and perfectly in tune." http://nderf.org/james_e_nde.htm

"At its deeper level reality is a sort of superhologram in which the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously." http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html#zine

We'll see who was right when we get there.

[Bryan.A]

Art's conclusion is like most of ours a subjective one,to be truly certain of what happens in the afterlife is actually something more difficult then accepting paranormal phenomena by itself.

One thing works for me.If existence is chaotic without purpose and evolution and "the law of the strong shall live and the weak shall die" does not have a true purpose which brings harmony then (subjective) ethics nor spiritual love doesn't matter for me.Without reincarnation and cause and effect everything already is unjustified.God plays dice in this case.Some enjoy life without big turmoil and others get to really have a very sucky existence,diseases,torture u name it.Justified?With reincarnation u would say that's cause and effect in working.Without it the house of cards collapses.What's the point of loving like so many gurus teach when u can kill,rape,demolish and still get a good deal on the other side?

Let me get back to cleaning my room,some MP-styled meditation might do me some good right now=)

[Michael H]

What's the point of loving like so many gurus teach when u can kill,rape,demolish and still get a good deal on the other side?

This is one of those statements that I completely agree with. When one understands the answer to "who I really am", their own judgment regarding what they've been up to until that point will be much harsher than one can begin to imagine.

I'm totally comfortable stating that anyone who chooses to harm another will learn to deeply regret it at some point. Just trust me on this one.

[Art]

Without reincarnation and cause and effect everything already is unjustified.God plays dice in this case.Some enjoy life without big turmoil and others get to really have a very sucky existence,diseases,torture u name it.Justified?With reincarnation u would say that's cause and effect in working.Without it the house of cards collapses.What's the point of loving like so many gurus teach when u can kill,rape,demolish and still get a good deal on the other side? - Bryan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After crossing back over into the Spiritual Universe, Heaven, we'll look back on this life like it was a dream. Like watching a DVD movie, where you take the DVD out of the player and stick it back in it's sleeve. Everyone becomes enlightened upon entering the light. During the life review you become the other person, feel what they felt, hear their thoughts, everything. The life review is a holographic experience par excellance. We don't live for just ourselves. In a hologram everything is infinitely connected to everything else. Each piece contains the whole. You will know what it was like to be me and I will know what it was like to be you. After we die we will experience the Universe for what it truly is, a gigantic splendidly detailed hologram. Everyone becomes enlightened upon entering the light. This life is just an illusion created to teach the soul a few simple lessons, duality and separation, time and space, and imprint memories holistically of what it was like to live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time universe. Life's lessons are embedded in our everyday lives and the soul is imprinted with what it needs to learn, whether we want it to be or not. Everyone graduates from this school. The soul learns in the same way that a little child learns before starting grade school, holistically. As we go about our daily lives the soul learns automatically what it's supposed to learn.

[Ross W]

Teri, just in case you're exasperated by the differing views of Bryan A and Art, here’s a thought: the truth may have been uttered before, perhaps many times. Perhaps by Bryan A, perhaps by Art, Michael H, Michael P or William. But without your creative insight, whatever you read is just words on a page.

I agree with you that at least some pointer, some kind of analogy would be very helpful. But perhaps the meaning of life is beyond our puny physical brains. It might be too complex, like a twelve dimensional Universe. Even analogies might fail us.

Or perhaps the meaning of life is self-referential, a tangled hierarchy. We as individuals, seek to return to the Whole, while God, as the Whole, seeks to express Himself through us, a myriad of perspectives. It could be that simple. As a separate individual, you only have access to your perspective. You won’t know the way the threads are woven together into the Whole until you lose your current limited perspective by gaining all the other perspectives –by expanding to include them (possibly like Art’s holographic universe).

Sometimes, I think the meaning of life is just to enjoy yourself as best you can. When that doesn’t work out, we can get lost in a tangle of questions we can’t answer. Meditation is supposed to help untangle the threads.

[Teri]

Well your simple explanations can't be true. An awful lot of people don't 'seek to return to the whole'...they would rather stay separate and selfish. In a crowded world with limited resources this selfishness is bound to interfere with the enjoyment of others.

[Michael H]

An awful lot of people don't 'seek to return to the whole'...they would rather stay separate and selfish.

So it appears, Teri. And so it will remain until more understand how powerful appearances actually are.

After crossing back over into the Spiritual Universe, Heaven, we'll look back on this life like it was a dream.

So what does this tell us about what life here actually is, Art? Which perspective is correct? Or to put it another way, if we perceive life here as a 'dream' following death, why don't we perceive life here as a dream right now?

[Art]

Well your simple explanations can't be true. An awful lot of people don't 'seek to return to the whole'...they would rather stay separate and selfish. - Teri
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We don't lose our "uniqueness" after crossing back over into the Spiritual Universe. Mark Horton says, "I was unique yet I was the tiniest part of the whole." http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/markh.html But, I believe our souls do come here to learn what it means to be separate. It may be extremely difficult to "become" an individual (that sense of "self) while living in a Universe where the feelings of oneness and connectedness are overwhelming due to it's holographic nature. After shedding our bodies we will be connected and individual at the same time.

[Art]

So what does this tell us about what life here actually is, Art? Which perspective is correct? Or to put it another way, if we perceive life here as a 'dream' following death, why don't we perceive life here as a dream right now? - Michael H
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Taking this life seriously now causes us to invest ourself fully in our education. This Earth life is a school (or like actors in a play)and if we knew that one day we'd wake up and look back on our life here like a dream we may not be as emotionally involved. Emotion is the energy to the soul. The more emotional the experience the more powerful and long lasting the memory it creates. If we knew absolutely 100% for certain that one day we were going to get it all back, and be reunited with our loved ones that have crossed over, we might not mourn their deaths quite as much. The death of a loved one is the ultimate lesson in separation. Nothing else comes as emotionally close. That powerful emotion teaches the soul what it feels like to be alone, separate, unique. It has to be that way because on the other side the feelings of connectedness are so overwhelming that it may not be possible to become an individual in Heaven. I remember once reading an NDE of a woman who said that we here in the Physical Universe can't begin to understand the infinite and overwhelming feelings of "oneness" on the other side. This describes a hologram perfectly by the way.

[Filip Van Droogenbroeck]

Teri: "While I was trying to meditate again, a thought occurred to me: there are 7 billion people in the world. It only takes one to discover the answer and want to broadcast it far and wide. So the odds seem pretty good to me."

Well many have discovered the answer!
And they all say the same thing.
It is unspeakable, it is unity, oneness, infinity, nothingness, non-duality, god, The Truth!, it is, thou art that. Many names for the same. There is a saying in the mystical literature: "The truth is one but the sages call it many."
THE point is that it can not be conveyed in words, it has to be experienced. It is pretty simple. If truth is unity, it is something which can not be explained in words. Why?
Because words are dualistic by their very nature. We know there is water because we know there is something which is not water.
That is dualism, while unity is non dualism.
It is not water and not not water.
Unity has to be experienced and it can be experienced and eventually it is very very simple. It is there in every moment!
But we just cover it up with so many things that we don't see it. But actually everybody is already enlightened on this very moment.
If there is truly something as oneness, god, it has to be everywhere, in every experience and it is the very simple awareness which is in every moment, which is every moment.
And it is not something out there, to be gained or searched, it is right here while reading and typing and has to be recognised.

The problem with talking about unity is that you are bound to end up in paradoxes.
There are many techniques known which can help te get a deeper understanding.
Many meditation techniques, counting your breath, just being, raya yoga, or recently discovered techniques like the big mind/big hearth proces from Genpo Roshi.
It takes practice, have you ever searched with your whole hearth, your whole being?
Where your self dies?

[Michael H]

Well many have discovered the answer!
And they all say the same thing.

Great post, Filip.

[john]

I find that washing dishes can be meditating only if the dishes are fairly clean, that is with out stubborn stains. Thats why I use palmolive soap. I have to wonder what kind of soap does Mr. Prescott use?

[Teri]

The sort that dissolves in dualistic water, I should think.