The tree

My last post has inspired many interesting and helpful comments, one of which spurred me to a burst of poetic eloquence. I like it, so I'm putting it up as a separate blog entry. Be warned that, because of a sinus infection, I am currently taking prescription cough medicine laced with codeine; thus, what follows may be only the ravings of a fatigued and drug-addled brain.

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My best guess - which is only a guess - is that Mind does give rise to the physical cosmos, and that in some mysterious way our own individual minds are minuscule offshoots of this larger Mind.

Here's an image: There is a tree deeply rooted in good soil, with a profusion of leaves on its branches. Soil, roots, trunk, branches, and leaves are all one system, and when the leaves drop off they will return to the soil as nutrients. The soil is Universal Consciousness, the ground of being. The roots the means of translating the soil's stored energy into the form of a growing tree (i.e., translating Mind into physicality). The tree trunk and branches are the physical world. The leaves are our own individual consciousnesses, separate from each other, but grouped together, and fed by the same root system that supports the whole tree. And our ultimate fate is to drop from the branch, lose our form, rejoin the soil, and merge with the ground of being.

Comments

[Ross W]

Thus, to achieve a more sustained state of Soul awareness (aka Self-Realization) requires finding a way to resolve karma, keep from creating karma (a real challenge since everything you think, do and say including doing nothing creates karma)

Yes Mark, you show why Karma is such a complete pain in the Kasbah. Let’s just transcend it like Mark Horton did in his NDE, shall we? Let’s refuse to believe it has power over us! Maybe it will let us off!

[Cyrus]

Well, this debate has been going on for a while now. I feel like there's a lot of confusion or misunderstanding. I'm not trying to preach, these are just my own developed points of view which I hope might inspire you as well.

Reality: First, think of a computer program. Yes, in a sense, the program is an illusion--a collection of pixels which were carefully constructed to create a concept or a story, and even the pixels can be broken down into pieces of light, which is energy, which can be broken into quantum concepts based on perception. But who really needs to break these parts down, except the progammer? The end-product is no illusion. If anything, the original formless state is more illusionary because it has no shape or expression yet.

Physical Reality: Somewhere between the physical pixels, and the point where things break down into the abstract and mental (quarks, and what have you) there exists a "physical" element, that binds us and prevents our minds from having much potential. These limits, or restrictions, create an environment where consciousness is not the dominating factor, but rather the carefully coded obstructions are. Limitations must exist, or else there would be no separation between the mind and the objective. And then, there would be chaos (can you imagine if all thoughts, of everybody, amassed into objective-reality?)

Mental-reality: This exists in a separate but connected dimension, a mental framework, which again relating to programming... you can imagine as the DOS prompt hidden behind your operating system. Only, it's far more complicated. When you visualize an apple in your mind, you can "see" the redness, the green of the stem, the waxy-coating, the smell and the crispy, sweet taste. But, despite how vivid this picture is, it's completely removed from "reality" and exists in a separate dimension removed from space, time, protons, photons, etc. If you're trying to find the source of "God", here it is.

The Soul of the Individual: Before you create that apple, it is "conjured" out of the blank-slate, the stillness of consciousness. How does nothing give rise to something? This cannot be answered, not by me and perhaps not by anyone, but we do it constantly. However, one thing I am certain of is that there is a hidden "factor" that influences "how" these thoughts are transformed into mental constructs (and then ultimately objective constructs)-- and that factor of influence is the "soul" or "essence" of an individual. To understand, pick up a paintbrush and paint. Every stroke is the process of conscious stillness > 'soul influence' > mental construct > objective construct (creation). Because of the soul influence, you'll create a painting as entirely unique and original as you are as a person.

Non-physical reality: The physical component is removed, and substance has a new non-chemical composition, so that energy can take shape into form and structure out of the mental construct while stepping past the limits of physics, etc. But, there are still limiting factors, of which we do not understand, or else these non-physical, or neighboring planes we go to post-mortem, would be chaos. Therefore, there's still a separation, and clearly a restriction in place, between thinking of the apple in your head, and holding an apple in your hand. I wish I knew these specific mechanics.

Astral-Planes: Here there are fewer restrictions between the objective dimension and the mental one. Ever dream a bunch of nonsense? That's probably only a taste of the randomness which would be the universe without restriction.

And all of this leads to...

Individuality v. Monism, God, Etc: Well, here's the big question, and what everybody has been debating about on this forum and ever since higher-minded physical creatures started popping up on Earth.

Are we all one organism perceiving different facets of itself? My answer / opinion; This is both true, and false.

How it's true: The "conscious stillness" which is directly in the background of the "influence of the soul" discussed earlier is the same in all life-forms, it is the state of existence with infinite potential for creation. There are no barriers between this state of being and you, your neighbor, your cat, your fern, or the energy that composes your pillow. It's all the same thing. If you meditate deeply, or if you die, you will (briefly) be that conscious stillness, and you will become the same as all reality from this perspective. Imagine being everything (good luck! you can't imagine this).

How it's false: Some people, I notice, interpret this concept wrong. A big idea that's being misunderstood is the "soul" we discussed earlier. It's the 'thing" that's standing between "you" and the "conscious stillness" which influences everything you create.

And by "unique", I mean truly "unique". You're not just your personality, your choice in gourmet dining, your drawings of comic book characters, or your eye-color. You're actually a concept, a fact, as bold and unique as the color red. As we learn from certain NDEs and spiritual transcripts from people like Silver Birch, you have always existed as this fact... a fundamental aspect of the conscious stillness of "God". It's your essence that's now being represented by your body, but beneath that is your personality, which is the result of your soul influencing the process of creation. Confused? It's okay. But, you already know all this stuff if you have ever interracted with other people, been in a relationship, or even had friends. This is the system that makes life interesting, because it's how different essences blend and interract with others that creates infinite possibilities for diversity, adventure, discovery, and creation.

Now go get some sunlight.

[Art]

I can't help but think of Richard Bucke's description in Cosmic Consciousness of the suddenness of his illumination, which he describes as an instantaneous understanding arriving like a bolt of lightning. - michael h
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excerpt from article about Emmanuel Swedenborg:
"Swedenborg also refers to the holographic thought balls the angels use to communicate and says that they are no different from the portrayals he could see in the "wave-substance" that surrounded a person he describes these telepathic borsts of knowledge as a picture language so dense with information that each image contains a thousand ideas." http://www.soultravel.se/2004/040907-swedenborg/index.shtml

[william]

wvogt: I lean in your direction about souls coming through after they have been "there" for some time may be able to tell us more what the other side is like for them compared to people that experience NDE's.

I think their insights may be a more descriptive overview of life on the other side, which I suspect is very varied. Our state of consciousness and level of vibration may determine what level of astral world we reside in.

These insights on a massive societal scale may help human kind to look beyond their day to day values and change their mode of being in this world from “I got mine” to more love and compassion towards others. Or not.

The book I am reading now called the physics of the soul I have noticed Goswami has either not done his research on spiritual communication or did not put this type of communication in his book.

Spiritualism has been one of my most interesting studies into life after death and the meaning and purpose of our lives.

[Art]

But some NDEs indicate a quick merging into Cosmic Consciousness. Ask Art -he'll quote you chapter and verse. Posted by: Ross W
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Since you ask? They call it "all knowledge". It's a manifestation of the holographic nature of the other side. Being totally connected with everything. i.e. those overwhelming feelings of "oneness" so often mentioned in NDE's.

Beverly Brodsky - near-death experiences
I was given more than just the answers to my questions; all knowledge unfolded to me, like the instant blossoming of an infinite number of flowers all at http://www.near-death.com/experiences/judaism02.html

When I did a search on the near-death.com website on "all knowledge" I got 297 hits.
http://tinyurl.com/4rkjmk

[Art]

The Creator of the Universe was so smart that He/She was able to create a Universe where the soul is automatically imprinted with what it needs to learn whether it wants to be or not. "We" don't have to do jack squat. The soul's lessons are embedded in our everyday lives and it learns holistically what it is supposed to learn whether we want it to or not. And the beautiful thing about it is that all the information we are gathering here will be shared on the other side. We don't live for just ourselves. After our bodies die and the soul returns to the Spiritual Universe we will be able to know what it's like to soar like an eagle or swim like a dolphin or run like a cheeta. Everything is shared on the other side because everything is infinitely connected to everything else due to it's holographic nature.
excerpt from Randy Gehling's, age 10, NDE: "That was really cool! I kind of felt as though my body exploded - in a nice way - and became a million different atoms - and each single atom could think its own thoughts and have its own feelings. All at once I seemed to feel like I was a boy, a girl, a dog, a cat, a fish. Then I felt like I was an old man, an old woman - and then a little tiny baby." http://near-death.com/experiences/animals04.html

[Hope Rivers]

Its interesting how the very people who don't give to much credence to NDE's are the same people who embrace the cosmic consciousness concept described in NDE's by a few. If NDE's are flimsly to say the least why bother with any aspect of them, after all they are ultimately just "dreams".

[Hope Rivers]

Art all NDEs are unique, I never felt like a man, dog, bird or chair, nor did I feel like I had all the answers. I did get the sense of connection, the knowingness, telepathic communication but even with that I'm not sure I knew the total depths of the people I was communicating with, just the thoughts they chose to communicate.

Ross the garden wasn't even the real standout of the whole experience, or any of the beauty I encountered, the vivid colours, the clarity and sharpness of "summerland", the most outstanding aspect was the "love", now I have no problem basking in that for an eternity without getting bored, I guess without that component eventually one would become dissatified and ansty for more.

[Hope Rivers]

Here's a thought, they say you must love yourself before you can love another fully, therefore how does one automatically get to experience this in the afterlife if one has only tasted a pale shade of it or for many have no concept of what real "love" is and I'm not talking lust or romatic love here either.

Which is probably why many lean towards reincarnation theory to make sense of it all, but as I see it someone could love you too the nine's but if your broken you won't know how to return it or give it, which leads me to think all NDE's are just an invitation to the possibilities.

[Hope Rivers]

That someone being "GOD" of course :-)

[DMDuncan]

For those interested in a philosophical notion that navigates between both the antithetical monisms of idealism and materialism, and dualism, there is panpsychism.

You can get an overview here:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panpsychism/

[william]

“which leads me to think all NDE's are just an invitation to the possibilities.”

This is a very nice way of putting the experience of an NDE. They are an important aspect of the study of life after death. We must evaluate them for what they are a temporal experience. An experience that highly suggests that life after death exists.

Many that experience these NDE’s come back with information that “only” could have been obtained if their consciousness left their body.

[Ross W]

Excellent point about Love, Hope -I reckon that has been the missing factor in most of the posts in this thread!

[Ross W]

...probably because we're mostly blokes...

[Michael Prescott]

Very interesting discussion, though it perhaps got off on the wrong foot with Anonymous' angry comments. But I understand the anger. It is upsetting and unsettling to think that your "I" might dissolve into an undifferentiated wholeness. When I first came across this idea, I had the same reaction.

But to clarify my point, I am not saying that this happens immediately after we die. If it did, there would presumably be no afterdeath communications - yet the evidence for those communications is very good.

I think such immersion in Cosmic Consciousness may - emphasis on may - be our ultimate destiny, but only when we are ready for it, perhaps after many lifetimes or many transitions through spiritual planes. In other words, by the time it happens, possibly after eons of experience, you will want it to happen. And even then you won't so much lose yourself as gain the fullness of your higher Self.

Of course I am only speculating. My opinion is worth no more than anybody else's, and probably worth less than the opinions of people who have had NDEs, OBEs, and other peak experiences.

Thanks, William, for the advice on colloids. So far, antibiotics seem to be doing the trick.

[ANONYMOUS]

entertaining the way my comments seem to have upset some apple carts...let me tell you a bit about 'anonymous'...(perhaps you will not 'believe' me...)

1- i am a composer who holds 5 top 40 hits and a top 16 chart hit to my credit

2- i have toured with others such as the nitty gritty dirt band, sawyer brown, david lee murphy, dan seals, kentucky headhunters and a few others

3- i have owned cadillacs, diamond rings, and leather suits since i was 23

4- i have been to the other side of the grave, moved through darkness, seen the infamous 'light' (passage to another dimension) and spoken telepathically while there

5- since that event, i have seen the members of my family who are not here anymore, seen others who are not here, have been 'spoken to' on a few occcasions, telepathically by unseen 'beings'

6- i have foreseen the death of two of my family members

7- i do not seek or follow advice, enlightenment or so called wisdom from anyone whom i cannot see, hear with my ears, verify that they are whom they say they are, etc. this includes spirits, and, it would seem to me, this could be considered common sense...i also do not accept the concept of 'nothing but loving spirits' either, this has not been my experience and i simply view it as a fallacy and incredibly naive

8- half of my family is not here anymore...every fibre of my very being and my heart longs for them every hour of every day...what i now live for, is to be near them again...you are wrong mr. prescott, it's not about the 'I', it's about 'them'

my angry comments? why am i here? because so many people speak about love and connectedness, yet it seems to me that it is an illusion in front of them that they do not comprehend...that is, where is the 'love' in YOUR loved ones dissolving into 'nothing'...where is the love in communicating to someone bizarre phrases alluding to them not really 'existing', this seems to be a harsh and uncaring 'wholeness' only interested in looking at itself from different angles. where is the love in reincarnation? people speak of 'love'...yet it would appear that there really is no love involved because we're only here for the 'experience' right? and when the experience is over, well, putting it simply, the 'love' turns into "to hell with you now, i'm going on to more experiences so i can benefit myself". i also find it amusing, as ross puts it, regarding 'presenting alternatives to divisive beliefs'...my experience has been that the 'alternatives' are often presented in a ridiculing, judgemental and belittling
fashion, so where is the 'love' there? hence, as Hope points out, christian bashing...the very people who preach the love do the same thing as the ones who they view as unenlightened and yet, they are oblivious to it. no, i'm not a christian. many seem to be willing to point out the absurdities in other beliefs, yet they appear to be oblivious to the absurdities of their very own beliefs. it is my personal OPINION that anyone who finds love in the 'belief' that their children, parents, etc., have gone and dissolved into 'something' indeed may not truly understand what it means to love someone...this would explain their fascination with such a belief...it begins to sound more like 'me' than it does 'love'. i trust this might explain my presence on this board at this time...and after all i have described here, i certainly feel as qualified to comment as anyone else present.

[Ross W]

"i certainly feel as qualified to comment as anyone else present."

Of course you are, and thanks for the explanation. Intriguing! The only bit I'd question in what you say is the "dissolving into nothing". Consciousness is not Nothing...it is Everything...

[Cyrus]

I don't think anybody evaporates into cosmic consciousness, I think it's all about trying to understand multi-dimensional topics with our limited minds. As I stated in my post, I'm pretty sure every individual is a unique aspect of the universe that doesn't go away, whether it has individual form or not.

[Michael Prescott]

>you are wrong mr. prescott, it's not about the 'I', it's about 'them'

But you don't want them to remain exactly as they once were, do you? I would imagine you want them to grow and learn and have new experiences, even though these experiences will change them. Besides (if my speculations are correct), you will be changing right along with them. And if at some distant point you all decide you no longer need to be wedded to your personal identities, would this be so awful? Would your loved ones really want to be limited, for all time, to being nothing but the bundle of memories, opinions, and desires that characterized their earthly existence?

Imagine if someone said to a parent, "Your child can be so much more than she is now," and the parent said, "How dare you suggest that my child should change? I don't want to lose my child. I want my child to be stay the same person she is right now - forever!" Would we think that this parent has the child's best interest at heart, or that the parent even truly loves the child?

[Ross W]

I’m inclined to agree with Michael P about growth, because our mind-brain psychology is full of undesirable foibles and phobias (some say Karmic legacies), not to mention selfish biological impulses. Some might think being rich and psychic like Mr Anonymous was a desirable state to be in! (Not that foreseeing deaths is pleasant –I can see that would be grim!) But if you aren’t happy, for whatever reason, you have to grow spiritually. I reckon that’s behind my quest. I think William said it’s behind his. It’s probably what drives a lot of us. Of course, if growth by acquisition of understanding turns out to be an illusion, we’ll need to find Michael H’s right-brain shortcut (seeing ourselves as mere observers of our psychology, thus escaping the identification with our ego in one fell swoop). Still there, Michael H?! ;-)

[Hope Rivers]

Just changing the subject a bit, Michael remember that vision I told you about 2/3 weeks ago, the one I had about a devastating storm, flooding etc and I said I heard a voice say off India, well its happened, just on Sunday in a place called Myanmar, Burma (borders off India) sadly 45000 dead.:-(

[Hope Rivers]

Anonymous I agree with what you said regarding love, its only when we take the eyes of "self" and look towards others are we getting closer to the truth.

As much as people hate bible quotes I'm gonna use this one:

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. NIV

And there's others similar but the message is about giving up YOUR life for another, in the case of Christ, he did this with him humbly accepting and fulfilling prophecy of his crucifixtion. But its an analogy for everything really.

A man lays down his life by giving up his singleness to get married and have a family, to embrace the journey of love and the growth it all entails, same with women. Its about surrendering the selfishness and growing up.

For those of us who have lost loved ones through death etc we show our love by celebrating our life, continuing to love and live in the expectant hope of reuniting with out loved ones when its our god ordained time and hopefully if we are lucky we go without fear and full of love and happy that we've given this place our best shot.

I agree with Michael in regard to the progression of learning in the afterlife that appears to happen, even in my NDE i was taken into a room of light with a group of others already sitting around a circle discussing stuff, I cant remember everything that was discussed but strangely I came back with the knowledge of two conversations only (one was a prophecy for me) but the whole experience was to learn something and I believe the others where there learning too.

[Hope Rivers]

Ohh by the way in my OBE's I have yet to experience the "love" of the NDE plane I was at. The OBE'S I've had must be lower realms, void of "cosmic love" very similar to earth.

[Bryan.A]

I agree with MP's view on "changing" too,u know alot of these matters give u a paradoxical view making them philosophically even more confusing.

Take for instance,change.We change alot trough lives journey yet quinessentially we stay the same.Sounds like a paradox right,not really when u consider what aspects of us really change.

Keep em up,I like reading the comments of you guys =)

[Art]

Maybe "the soul" and the "self" (that voice inside our head that we think of as "me") somehow merge in the transition to the other side? They seem almost separate while here on Earth, but perhaps after crossing over they become one and the same thing? Holographically speaking?

[Michael H]

I'm still here Ross - ;-)

In reading through this several things come to mind. First, I think it's encouraging that there are so many people who do appear to find the idea of a connection between their own consciousness and universal consciousness appealing. I also understand that the idea can be threatening - I would have personally reacted to these ideas with a no little vitriol myself at one time.

The second thing that occurs to me has to do with the NDE/Cosmic Consciousness experience. I want to clarify that I consider both to be genuine experiences, and when I read NDE accounts, I see very strong parallels between the two experiences. The instantaneous arrival of the understanding is especially telling. What is important to me about an experience like Bucke's is that he was fully alive, just riding along in a carriage. Part V of the book contains several other accounts of regular people just experiencing an instantaneous realization, and contemporary secular mystics such as Eckhart Tolle and Sydney Banks relate very similar accounts. My peak experience involved a similar flood of insight.

The Christian mystics Jacob Boehme and Thomas Aquinas (just two of many) express the same sort of thing. (I think Aquinas stated that all he'd learned before, in decades of religious study, was "nothing but straw"). The instantaneous understanding is also expressed by the Eastern adepts. This is a recurring theme, and it leads me to believe that we all have the potential within us to realize the same things - at any time. So just to clarify; I don’t interpret NDE’s to be “just a dream”, as Hope suggested earlier. The experience of Cosmic Consciousness involves an experiential shift that communicates the understanding that this life is “just a dream” as well: but the concept cannot be fully grasped until we ourselves undergo a similar experiential shift. Until someone has elevated their own level of consciousness, such a description has all of the pitfalls of the use of the term ‘illusion’; it’s not that reality is seen as false, it’s that a “realer” real appears. It’s a matter of perception, seeing more deeply into the true nature of things.

Which sort of brings me to what Ross refers to as my “right-brain shortcut”. The experience that sent me on the ‘spiritual path’ (for lack of a better term – everyone on earth is on the spiritual path), was a psychological event, and it came about from the experience of a mind as quiet as a tomb. The understanding appeared precisely because I had undergone an inner experiential shift, where I was not identifying with that part of me that’s busy thinking all of the time, I was simply observing the thinker, had shifted my focus completely from thinking about things to seeing that I was thinking about things. And “I” was still there. The understanding arrived as a flood of insight, but rather than describing it as a bolt of lightning arriving from somewhere beyond the self, as Bucke does, it felt more like an inner dike collapsing, releasing a sea of realization that had always been there, but had been concealed by the dike that I had constructed with my personal beliefs. (Just to clarify, I’d been punching little holes in the dyke for several months before the flood occurred.) I rarely share the specifics of the event itself with this amount of detail, but I will say that what I experienced included all eleven attributes that Bucke discusses in Cosmic Consciousness. (Pages 60-69 - I know that it included an alteration of my physical appearance to others, because I encountered a friend who later commented to her sister that she had seen me and that I looked different, “younger or something”.)

The primary insight that arrived was that existence is pantheistic, (probably panentheistic), and along with that came the idea that everyone on earth has within them the means to access the same understanding. The frustration is twofold. For those who have yet to experience such an event, the description of the event will likely be interpreted as a mental breakdown (Materialists write off St. Paul as an epileptic). For the one who’s had the experience though, it’s even more difficult. Because the understanding goes well beyond knowing that everything is divine; it goes to knowing that most others don’t know that yet. And if just the suggestion of idealism or pantheism is threatening to others, how threatening is it to consider that most aren’t even aware of how their own minds operate? That every one of us is not blinded to the realer reality by anything outside of us, but are blinded instead by the dikes we’ve constructed through our beliefs? That goes for me too, by the way. I’ve just built a new dike, using the beliefs of idealism and pantheism as building blocks, so now I’m as blind as everyone else.

Finally, to address Michael’s earlier speculation that our ultimate destiny is to immerse ourselves in the ocean of Cosmic Consciousness: I think this is correct. But I also want to be clear that while a Christ or a Buddha went scuba diving in that ocean, I had a wave break and wash over my ankles. The ineffability of mystical realization has to do with the vastness of the underlying reality from which this reality arises. The experiences ahead may be entirely unlimited – I have absolutely no idea. What I do know is that there is no such thing as “extinguished”. There is only becoming.

So, to wrap up this entirely too lengthy post, (aren’t you glad you asked, Ross?), I’ll just leave with this: If anyone really wants to understand what I’ve written here, the last thing they should do is believe it.

[Dave C]

Almost thirty years ago I read a book by Jane Roberts entitled "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul". Well, the second part of the title makes my point for me. I just wanted to add that I had (and still have) a lot of trouble (fear might be a better word) around the issue of losing my identity. But I remember something in that book concerning reincarnation that makes sense, somehow. If we are incarnated thousands of times, which identity am I afraid of losing?

I think the passage in question mentioned the fact that, as we get older in this life, we often don't identify with the person we used to be in our earlier years. I know the 56 year old me has the same basic personality as the 17 year old me. But I'm so distant from that youth and so much more than him, that I find there's little left to identify with. I don't disown him and I retain affection for him, but I don't feel that I am him.

[Ross W]

Michael H, that was from the heart, and very enlightening. But if I'm not allowed to believe it, I am forced to wonder why you spend so much time and effort enlightening us. Anyway, I do believe you had this experience, and I don't believe that necessarily places me a long way from enlightenment! (Just love this paradoxical stuff!)

Dave C, good point -we none of us are quite the same from one day to the next, so, as testified by my gradually expanding waistline, growth is simply unavoidable!

[Ross W]

Hope: Love and blessings to you.

[william]

Hope that has been my point with Art.

NDE’s give us a different version of reality than maybe we will experience in the afterlife. Maybe? I hope Art is right and I am wrong but I have to go with the data. Darn that data gets in the way of “what I want” at times. Ok lots of times.

Also in an OBE a person may decide to visit these lower realms, as it appears that on the other side one can visit lower realms but not reside in higher realms than their level of consciousness or vibration level “allows” them to reside in.

I think what a person can learn from research into life after death is how important the attainment of love and compassion is for reaching these higher realms of existence. It always seems to get back to love and I look at compassion as love in action.

As humans I believe most of us are very low on the compassion scale and confuse sympathy and empathy with compassion. Without that dream I had many years ago I would not have been able to make such a statement. Receiving compassion through telepathic communication is awesome beyond mere words and nothing like what I have received in this world. Ever!

Now I know why the Buddha taught the need for compassion. It lacks any form of judgment and is total acceptance in spite of one’s “sins”. I suspect that even Hitler would have received compassion from a Buddha or Jesus.

Because our level of divine intelligence is still pretty low for most humans, we humans appear quick to judge. Surely in this political season this is self-evident.

[Bryan.A]

DaveC:"I just wanted to add that I had (and still have) a lot of trouble (fear might be a better word) around the issue of losing my identity. But I remember something in that book concerning reincarnation that makes sense, somehow. If we are incarnated thousands of times, which identity am I afraid of losing?"

Something i've been wondering about too.If indeed consiousness survives,then which personality will be dominant in the next plane?To try to understand I think about the different kind of psyzofrenia's out there and how that goes about,yet I still can't quite get it.If all my ego would want is a handbook on such matters,makes it alot easier.Scientific study of spiritual matters is one thing but understanding the modus operandi of such important concepts it provides such as reincarnation is quite another especially when u want to tie such difficult concepts with individual consciousness.Fascinating nonetheless.

[Hope Rivers]

MH: I dont believe NDE's are just ordinary dreams, as you should know by now, but some do, I was being a little sarky but I'm fine now thanks.

I do think OBE's and NDE's begin through a dream and then finds its portal to farther lands.

Dave C: Like how you have displayed you photo's from infant to 56 yr old man and I must say you haven't changed a bit, I can see the 2yr old in the 56yr old:-)

[Hope Rivers]

Bryan says: Scientific study of spiritual matters is one thing but understanding the modus operandi of such important concepts it provides such as reincarnation is quite another especially when u want to tie such difficult concepts with individual consciousness.Fascinating nonetheless.

Great point Bryan - how are all the reincarnations (say 1000s on the road to enlightment become the individual consciousness) What happens to all the personalities, can they all blend together? are they all processed like in a mixmaster till we get this original smoothie ;-) I begs for strawberry or banana.

[Ross W]

In the current issue of Paranormalia, Robert McLuhan suggests that LSD experience naturally promotes the 'filter' theory - the idea that the brain acts as a barrier to undifferentiated reality, and can be subverted by certain chemical modifications to allow full contact with it - which Aldous Huxley picked up from Henri Bergson and popularised.

Anyone taken LSD?

[william]

Reincarnation: the soul looks at the aspect of reincarnation totally different than our personality. As least older souls that have reincarnated many times on this earth. These souls see reincarnation as opportunities for spiritual growth. Harsh environments like the earth offer many opportunities for spiritual growth.

The Catholic Church suppressed reincarnation for many reasons. Many people were tortured and put to death for even saying the word reincarnation. My personality does not cherish the thought of coming back but if most of us look deeply within I think we would find that most of us still have desires, attachments, and some craving for human life. I.e. things left undone.

“the idea that the brain acts as a barrier to undifferentiated reality, and can be subverted by certain chemical modifications to allow full contact with it”

I have never done any research on this but have always felt that this above statement may indeed be something to consider. It makes sense to me that the brain would act as a filter and somewhat of a barrier to our consciousness.

[Hope Rivers]

Anyone taken LSD?

No, don't do drugs' don't smoke, don't drink alcohol.......I'm really really boring ;-)

another 14 posts and this one may tip the 100 mark!

[Hope Rivers]

Ross, thanks for the love and blessings :-)

[Hope Rivers]

Hey William if reincarnation is true, then it's likely we all have probably met before also. You could have been my son or daughter, or possibly even a former wife........hey who the hell knows maybe Ross and Michael H were lovers, MP and Art were husband and wife and maybe I was Cleopatra and someone here was Marc Anthony or Julius Caesar... :-)

Ok that takes us to 12 posts to hit 100!

[The Major]

Although the idea of MP and Art as a husband and one is a pretty idea, I believe some reincarnation studies suggest that you are associated with the souls you shared previous lives with. Can anyone verify this? (In terms of research that is, I know no one knows if it is true)

If this is so, it might have an interesting spin on the idea of being 'destined' for a certain partner or loved one. Just a thought.

[Hope Rivers]

Well with all the previous reincarnations, say hypothetically William has been back 100 times, that would suggest every person he encountered in those "lives" who also have reincarnated maybe all of us right here on this blog.

Maybe every person that crosses your path already has before for whatever reasons........Now thats an interesting little fantasy don't you think ;-)

[Hope Rivers]

Maybe people who murder others are only getting them back for something they did to them in a previous life??? Life for Life.....

Anyway no proof, no validity, possibilities are never guarantees :-)

[a]

I doubt it. If reincarnation is real, and we do so to learn, we're going to see a mixture of new and old faces.

[Ross W]

A free e-book on Consciousness. Seems rather good!
http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/

[Hope Rivers]

A? your doubt is just that, its all a guessing game :-)

[Hope Rivers]

Michael getting back to your tree analogy for those of us who opt for a traditional burial (coffin in the ground) the last part ties well with what happens physically anyhows.

[Art]

"hey who the hell knows maybe Ross and Michael H were lovers, MP and were husband and wife and maybe I was Cleopatra and someone here was Marc Anthony or Julius Caesar." :-) - Hope
--------------------------------------------

I'm very sorry but I am not a big fan of reincarnation. It conflicts with my thoughts or belief that we are here to experience duality and separation which imprints on the soul what it means to be a separate, unique, individual.

[Michael H]

Dave C's mention of Seth's take on reincarnation reminds me that Seth labored to communicate that the underlying reality was timeless, and that what we may perceive as reincarnation from our current perspective is all happening simultaneously from the perspective of the higher level of consciousness that Seth claimed to be communicating from. He said that the "self" was actually better described as a 'mandala', a sort of kaleidoscopic amalgamation of personality aspects that are expressing and experiencing existence from multiple times and places at once, and simply see themselves as distinct from their individual perspectives.

He also claimed that there were groups of these mandalas who were related on a fundamental experiential level. He referred to Jane Roberts as "Rupert" (I can't recall his name for her husband Rob), and said that the three of them were related in this fashion.

Seth's primary message though, was that everything was a manifestation of the fundamental underlying reality he called "All That Is", and that the connection that brought everything together was consciousness. He attempted to illustrate a pantheistic reality occurring in an eternity of timelessness.

Thanks for the link, Ross. Looks interesting.

[rick]

Ambiguous absolutes lead to absolute ambiguity. - Rick Pietz

Many of the posts appear to express 'resentment' of the ambiguity of our existence [or non-existence]. Personally, I think I fall into the category of an existentialist, with nihilist leanings, and believe the answers, if they exist, lie within, and not in some 'out there' or in some separate 'super' entity. That said, I have had wonderful experiences, many similar to those described in other posts, exploring inwardly. As to the comments concerning the right brain function, let me suggest that you watch an incredibly informative video from the Ted Conference: http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229 - a neuroscientist discussing how a stroke of the left brain impacted her. I'll admit that it seems to lead to some reductionist thoughts, but well worth watching.

And, As to Anon's worry about ceasing to exist, I'd suggest that it really doesn't matter. I wake up every morning and ask, "Why?" I've been here an excess of forty years, and think that longevity may lead only to boredom. Oh, I am a staunch (and I believe original and sole member) believer in the Constructive Apathy School, that attempts to acheive enlightenment through not caring whether it is actually achieved.

[Bryan.A]

belief that we are here to experience duality and separation which imprints on the soul what it means to be a separate, unique, individual.

Well for one sec my beliefs(on reincarnation) put aside.Everything from natural selection to the universe to our "animal tendecies" reflects nature as it seems to be.Chaotic.

When we consider duality and seperation in 1 life only it seems like the same chaos and unfairness to me without order.

Taking MP's Ground of being thoughts into account,I would imagine 1 life would not be sufficient to achieve all that.Not to mention,where the lies the order?Reincarnation coupled with natural evolution with its cause and effect provides an order-theory for the universe.Yet to even try to understand the modus operandi of cause and effect boggles my mind without end.

[william]

“Maybe every person that crosses your path already has before for whatever reasons........Now thats an interesting little fantasy don't you think ;-)”

Some of my research indicates that we are involved in soul groups and we often come back and indeed can marry our former son or daughter. Scary thought.

Some of my research indicates we reincarnate into families that we feel will give us the type of environment that best suits our spiritual needs. I lean in the soul group scenario. I think it might depend on the maturity of the soul.

As I look around at the world with all its problems it certainty appears as if we have old souls and new souls on this earth. Some are greedy and self-serving and others devote their lives to serving others with love and compassion.

Forty seven million Americans without health care in America and 8 million have lost their health care in the last seven years suggests we have some newer souls calling united states their home. 50 per cent of bankruptcies in America are now due to medical costs. We are the only industrialized country where this is occurring.

I think the day will come with human evolution and our knowledge of newer souls and older souls that we will do a better job of helping newer souls adjust to life on earth and will not let them run our governments for want of power and wealth.

It makes sense that when we cross over we meet people we know. Much of my research indicates often if not always many of them are there to meet us as we cross over.