The tree

My last post has inspired many interesting and helpful comments, one of which spurred me to a burst of poetic eloquence. I like it, so I'm putting it up as a separate blog entry. Be warned that, because of a sinus infection, I am currently taking prescription cough medicine laced with codeine; thus, what follows may be only the ravings of a fatigued and drug-addled brain.

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My best guess - which is only a guess - is that Mind does give rise to the physical cosmos, and that in some mysterious way our own individual minds are minuscule offshoots of this larger Mind.

Here's an image: There is a tree deeply rooted in good soil, with a profusion of leaves on its branches. Soil, roots, trunk, branches, and leaves are all one system, and when the leaves drop off they will return to the soil as nutrients. The soil is Universal Consciousness, the ground of being. The roots the means of translating the soil's stored energy into the form of a growing tree (i.e., translating Mind into physicality). The tree trunk and branches are the physical world. The leaves are our own individual consciousnesses, separate from each other, but grouped together, and fed by the same root system that supports the whole tree. And our ultimate fate is to drop from the branch, lose our form, rejoin the soil, and merge with the ground of being.

Comments

OK, well...if anyone finds any purpose and happiness here in this physical life generated by this 'afterlife belief' and looks forward to dying, completely losing who and everything they are, and merging with a whole 'something' that is not them and they will cease to exist anymore a good thing to look forward to, then i guess this would be a wonderful belief to embrace. WHO WANTS TO BE THE FIRST TO NOT EXIST ANYMORE? HANDS UP PLEASE! WELL??....I'm sort of happy to be an individual, i don't have any desire to 'lose' myself and become a 'nothing' in any 'whole'...sounds pretty depressing.

As i think about this further...if this was my destiny, i think i'd rather just be dead and extinguished, after all isn't that what's in store for me inevitably anyway based on this? As a matter of fact, if anyone is considering suicide, why not just go ahead and do it then, why bother struggling? after all, you're not really unique or important, you're just a manifestation of 'something' so why bother to keep struggling here for the entertainment of some 'whole'?

[a]

Well, I simply don't believe this.

I'm more of a believer that we are all interconnected, yes, but our minds are a product of fundamental space-time geometry (I've been listening to Hameroff, can you tell?).

Minds are a quantum process, most likely. Space itself might be a large mind, but we're all individual offshoots, free to exist as individuals as long as we so choose to. Besides, if we ARE "absorbed" back in to the "mind," logically it follows that if at some point we were within that mind, we were separated from said mind, and thus if we are reabsorbed in to it, it is not a stretch to say that we will one day separate again, perhaps anew.

A sort of meta-reincarnation, if you will.

well, the plot thickens...someone who wants to keep existing after they die. i too, would be perfectly happy to remain who i am, and i'm not sure what purpose for living looking forward to not existing anymore would bring anyone. i also don't understand how being a manifestation of some 'whole' which would imply i'm really not who i think i am (merely a play thing of some 'thing') would be anything but a bleak outlook and not much reason to continue living frankly...as i said before, why bother to continue existing through hard trials in this life..why not just end it when it gets really tough? is there any reason not to? and again, HANDS UP ALL THOSE WHO WANT TO BE THE FIRST TO NOT EXIST ANYMORE! count me out! i'd rather just be extinguished and gone, that's all that's ahead anyway based on this. i have to stop reading this blog...no offence...it just depresses me. :(

forgot this...i also don't think i want to wonder who i really am and be reincarnated as 'someone' or 'something' else either, this sounds pretty hopeless again.

[Ronnie]

Anonymous, I don't necessarily think that that's the case here, and even if it is, I wouldn't really mind anyway, since I'm very fascinated with the whole "All is One" theme. I think what Prescott is saying sounds something like panentheism (I happen to be one myself). I don't believe you necessarily "lose" your identity, rather, I believe you merge with God/Universal Consciousness/Supreme Being/whatever but you still have that sense of "I", but without any of the negative emotions such as fear, hate, annoyance, etc.

you wouldn't mind to be dying and you would look forward to losing your identity, uniqueness and personality and not existing anymore? you would rather be a 'whole'? a whole what? why would you not mind this? this would be more of a cause for anxiety and fear as dying and being extinguished would...why would anyone not want to be who they are? are you not happy with who you are? how is this good news for this life?

[rick phillips]

Michael,

The space that represents my matter loves a good conversation about consciousness. My space `shows' to the world - after - it occurs. This `showing' happens to all spaces via lights bounce and forms into an on-going phenomenology best described as ---------- What is not able to not be IS ------

Reality is the ABSOLUTELY DETERMINED.
Spaces, and the `location' of spaces - regardless if embedded with consciousness - have `a phase of now'.

Part of the phase is totally determined, part of the phase, seems to have freewill. All of the phase is the same space.

All those spaces have a constituion to the subatomic level - a connection to their `macro' space (previous actualizations of their space) and - a connection to the `total space' (the spaces on Earth all move with the Solar System, and Milky Way motions for example).

In an instantaeous manner, for a human consciousness, it is a simulation of the most recent previous moments, that human spaces catch as `real'.

But, MIND, as positioned in your article - IMO, does not create reality -- reality is spaces. All with a location and momentum. And each space as real as ours and existing with relationships to other real spaces all involved in a phenomenology of space.

Time seems only a way of counting space(s).

Finally, in the Phillips Phenomenology (find thru google)--- the foundation of space is 4 words ----- NOT ABLE TO BE.

[Michael H]

I like this analogy, Michael.

The difference, of course, is that leaves aren't self-aware, so they don't argue among themselves as to the nature of the tree and the soil. Which is a good thing. I'm sure if they were they would soon demonize other leaves, and then organize, leading to intermittent conflagration of particular branches of the tree.

[Hope Rivers]

Is this an anti christianity remark Michael H or what? Now what brought that on I wonder? So much for oneness, innocence and compassion. Anyway unless you can guarantee your beliefs are 100% correct, I think you should learn to come from a space of love, the world doesn't need more anger/hate that's for sure.

[Hope Rivers]

I may have misunderstood what you said MH but where you are correct is about the Ego's on this blog.

No one here can really say what they believe to be absolute truth, yet most try and power over other beliefs like a bulldozer, I still stand by my last sentence.

Hey another thing can anyone explain my other question on Bi location? or aren't my questions worthy of your attention?

"The difference, of course, is that leaves aren't self-aware,"

Now, how do you know that? ;)

[Michael H]

Where did that come from, Hope? Though I must say, it's wonderfully illustrative of the point.

It matters not what the leaves choose to identify with, whether that is a particular religion, a particular nation, a particular race, a particular political ideology, or a particular philosophy. Or anything else.

If leaves had individual consciousness, strong identification with any of the above could only prevent them from recognizing the oneness among them. The leaves that genuinely see that would also recognize the innocence of the other leaves, (who were busy killing each other), and arrive at authentic compassion: There but for the grace of God go I.

The point I was trying to make is that leaves on a tree don't struggle with existential questions. They just naturally do what leaves do; they live and die in perfect concert with the energy that flows through them. Humans don't.

If anyone sees that message as angry or hateful . . . well, they're free to believe that, too - and they should just ignore me.

[Michael H]

Regarding bi-location, Hope, My own take on those things is that they too are just manifestations of consciousness. There is a long tradition of similar incidents in the Eastern religions - Yogananda relates several in Autobiography of a Yogi. I think that we all have latent abilities, but that doesn't mean they would always be accessed for positive reasons.

And we don't know that leaves aren't self aware - it just appears that way to me, since they seem to peacefully coexist, and trees aren't regularly bursting into flames. :-)

[Hope Rivers]

Where did that come from, Hope? Though I must say, it's wonderfully illustrative of the point.

How clever are you...

[Michael H]

The above anonymous posts are illustrative of how confusing the entire concept of idealism can be.

Ronnie's response is important: "I don't believe you necessarily "lose" your identity, rather, I believe you merge with God/Universal Consciousness/Supreme Being/whatever but you still have that sense of "I", but without any of the negative emotions such as fear, hate, annoyance, etc."

The conflict and misunderstanding arises from the definition of the "I". The common theme among all mystical realization is that the personal, subjective understanding of the "I" is altered. Who we think we are is not who we really are. It isn't a loss of identification though, it's an expansion identification. Addition, not subtraction; a gain, not a loss.

What's frustrating is how nonsensical it all sounds from a different perspective. When I think back to when I claimed allegiance to Objectivism . . . I sort of shudder when I consider how I would have responded to such a suggestion.

[Ross W]

"And our ultimate fate is to drop from the branch, lose our form, rejoin the soil, and merge with the ground of being."

IMHO, Absolutely right!

[Michael Tymn]

The issue of individuality within the Oneness is, I believe, beyond human comprehension. It was a major issue in the book that William recommended and Michael reviewed a few months ago, i.e., "The Open Door," by Theon Wright. The conclusion there is that individuality is retained within the Oneness.

Silver Birch dealt with this issue on several occasions, commenting:
"The ultimate is not attainment of Nirvana. All spiritual progress is toward increasing individuality. You do not become less of an individual. You become more of an individual. You develop latent gifts, you acquire greater knowledge, your character becomes stronger, more of the divine is exhibited through you. The Great Spirit is infinite and so there is an infinite development to be achieved. Perfection is never attained; there is a constant striving towards it. You do not ever lose yourself. What you succeed in doing is finding yourself."

[Art]

"And our ultimate fate is to drop from the branch, lose our form, rejoin the soil, and merge with the ground of being."
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I think we are here to become "unassimilated". Resistance is futile. You will experience duality and separation, time and space, and imprint memories of what it was like to live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe whether you want to or not. The soul's lessons are embedded in our everyday lives and it is imprinted holistically without any additional input from us whatsoever. We were once part of the Borg collective and the whole purpose of this life is to experience separation so that the soul can learn what it means to be separate. I don't think we lose our individuality after returning to the Spiritual Universe. Mark Horton states in his NDE, "I was unique yet I was the tiniest part of the whole." http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/markh.html Connected and separate at the same time. I also believe we create our own reality after crossing over. Heaven is a place where thoughts are things and consciousness creates reality. It has everything to do with "why we are here."

[Hope Rivers]

"Consciousness/Supreme Being/whatever but you still have that sense of "I", but without any of the negative emotions such as fear, hate, annoyance, etc."

But its not an automatic thing otherwise it doesnt explain the malevolent spirits, negative NDE's and whatever else that still has negative emotions in the afterlife.

But thats the positive "hope" everyone here has anyway regarding ultimate destiny, the idea that we stay as how we leave this planet isn't a pleasant one I must say, but then again who really knows eh.

[Art]

"But its not an automatic thing otherwise it doesnt explain the malevolent spirits, negative NDE's and whatever else that still has negative emotions in the afterlife. - Hope Rivers
-----------------------------------------

"As a man thinketh, so is he." (somewhere in the King James Version of Proverbs)

Numerous NDE's say things like "I thought of a mountain and it appeared!" or "It was strange but my thoughts became persons?" Heaven seems to be a place where thoughts are things and consciousness creates realityl. Where the way a person thinks dictates the kind of experience they will have. A place where consciousness is primary and matter is secondary, or where matter is an epiphenomena of consciousness. Howard Storm was a self avowed Atheist, and was terrified to find himeself still alive after he supposedly had died. He turned his own negative thoughts and emotions into demons, conjuring up demons so he could do battle with them and ultimately overcome them. Storm's anger, hate, resentment, fear, jealousy, selfishness, and rage all became demons and he fought them, and at the point when he called out to the Light, the Light appeared and he was "saved." The Tibetan Book of the Dead warns the newly dead to not be afraid of the demons they encounter because they are only projections of one's own mind. People who negative NDE's are working through negative things in their own psyche.

[Hope Rivers]

I agree with you here Art. I know from my own OBE experiences this is exactly what I experienced, I could think something and it became, also when I focused on my beauty (within) love and inner strength, the *negatives* disappeared.

Although I can't say every negative is just a figmant of my imagination, after all there are spiritual beings in that realm also. I remember one experience I had which didn't quite work when I did all the stuff I just mentioned, I required assistance from another. Maybe this was because I was facing something more than just "fears".

[Hope Rivers]

For those interested this link will take you too an interview with Howard Storm who speaks about his NDE experience. Clink on the second link, it explains what I experienced.

http://www.nku.edu/~kenneyr/HS.html

[Michael H]

Totally off-topic, but there may be some here who think that global warming may still be an open question. I thought the closing lines were illuminating:

"In view of what is now at stake, such quasi-religious incantations masquerading as science are something we can no longer afford. We should get back to proper science before it is too late."

[MarkL]

In this life you think of yourself as a body observing what's "out there". But you can switch your point of view and be "out there" observing your body (OOBE). So both are incomplete. Not many consciousnesses observing one reality; one consciousness, many points of view. Which make up "reality". Which you will find when you don't have a body. My opinion, anyway.

[Matthew C.]

WHO WANTS TO BE THE FIRST TO NOT EXIST ANYMORE? HANDS UP PLEASE! WELL??....I'm sort of happy to be an individual, i don't have any desire to 'lose' myself and become a 'nothing' in any 'whole'...sounds pretty depressing.

No-name, the "you" that you believe yourself to be already doesn't exist in reality. It is just a thought, an idea, that keeps coming up in Awareness and being identified with.

What you actually are is the awareness that is watching everything that unfolds within life. And that awareness is the same awareness that is watching the fingers type this comment.

Stop believing every thought that appears before you as being true. Every thought is a tiny two-dimensional snapshot of reality, no thought can hold more than a thimbleful of the ocean of reality.

[william]

http://www.colloidsforlife.com/silver_Sinus_Infection_Sinusitis.html

http://www.colloidsforlife.com/Sinus_Flooding_Procedure.html;jsessionid=0a01054f1f4323692d9ea6534dda89f3b3228feb4fc9.e3eTaxiNaN0Te34Pa38Ta38Sc3r0

sorry off topic and cannot send email. right in the middle of computer change over but this sinus flooding procedure has worked wonders for me for sinus infection.

[william]

we give up nothing and lose nothing when we so called merge with pure awareness. we become that that is. no loss of identity. our "identity" becomes that that is or God.

we humans are a long long way from this merge. much to learn. look around at the world we humans have much to learn in love and compassion.

this is the biggest misconception there is that we lose our identity. we never feel like we lost anything but always a gain.

even the mystics when they tell us they give up their me mentality experience a bliss beyond words. they look at their giving up their me identity not as a loss but a gain (big gain).

it is not about giving up but always a gain. even an advanced soul that comes to earth is not giving up but here to advance in love and compassion and divine intelligence.

we are gods with a small g in the making. we express ourselves as gods and create as gods before we ever merge with this pure awareness.

kaizen: continuous on going improvement demands it

[UrbanMysticDee]

MP
That's so beautiful, and a lot easier to understand that the previous lengthy soliloquy on the troubles of idealism.

And what's the deal with that anonymous person? The internet is anonymous enough as is and there is no difficulty at all in creating an online persona. I find it to be a cowardly practice, especially if someone is taking such a heated position, and on a friendly message board no less.

[Ross W]

Michael Tymn: “All spiritual progress is toward increasing individuality.”

This is an interesting idea. However, it implies perpetual reincarnation, or at least onward progress in the “hereafter”. This progress would have to involve continuing association with “time” (progress can only occur in time), which, given that time is an illusion, is a paradox. There would come a “time” when you would want to cast off the illusions of time and space and re-renter the “ground of being” that Michael P so eloquently refers to. Surely?

Why do people seem to care so much about the extinction of their individuality, anyway? It must be identification with their biological instincts.Yet when you think about how so many people live their lives, extinction is in fact high on their agendas!

*Sleep – (not much individual control there!)
*Entertainment (losing oneself in books, films, reality TV shows, soaps, drug and alcohol induced hazes)
*Moaning about their jobs, stuck in traffic, worrying about their bills, their neighbours, the state of the world, their kids or their elderly parents…
*Work – well is your job so fulfilling?? (Yes,William, yours is) Most aren’t!
*Eating – OK, sometimes good, but associated with indigestion and obesity (not good).
*Sex – the bliss in Consciousness, as Art points out, lasts more than 2 minutes! And no post-coital guilt, Aids or other diseases, either. Best of all, no identifiable mother-in-law!
*Posting on Blogs. Hmmm. As Hope says, most posts are only half read or ignored.

So come on, merge with the ground of being, what have you got to lose?

(Tried it –drat! Still identifying with that blinking body!)

[william]

Ross that quote was a silver birch quote that Michael Tymm used.

I lean in the direction that we do not retain our individual identity. We become that that is so we really never lose our identity. But I do not pretend to know. I am so far away from that in my consciousness but I do enjoy the intellectual challenge of discussing it. It truly is a mind fryer.

Hopefully it will get better as we advance in love and intelligence. I mean a person cannot stay a republican all their lives. We do advance and become a beneficial presence to others in the world. I do not cherish the thought of going through a human experience again but my research suggests it is so.

As I used to race I noticed that when racing one does not dwell on life’s meaning one becomes totally focused and in the moment as they say. It appears the less we dwell on self the more joy we find in life.

I read an article once that this famous racer was stating that he thought that is why most people race. They are in the moment.

[ANONYMOUS]

there, created a handle for myself now...cowardly? now was that a loving thing to say? I do not exist already? this sounds like something everyone and his dog would want to hear, they should probably be told, i suppose. i'm sure they would find it enlightening to know they are a manifestation of...'something' that doesn't really exist..sounds bizarre to me. silver birch's comments make some sense but they must be wrong and william's sources must have the true answers. we're going to become 'dissolved' whether we like it or not? wow, this 'manifesting source' is very, very loving. BY THE WAY, HOPE...APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE. your comments make the most sense.

[ANONYMOUS]

using my handle again...forgot to mention...i'm sure no one cares, but i thought it was an expected but relatively weak answer to the bi-location that hope pointed out. i recently read a simple (by the folks on this blog's standard) book titled 'hello from heaven'where those who have passed are, on several occasions, seen by multiple people who are still physically alive, providing verification, why? oh...i suppose this would be just another manifestation of 'something' that doesn't really exist once again...or perhaps those souls have just not 'dissolved' yet...or, perhaps they have not 'reincarnated' as much as 30 years after they passed, why?...forgot again, this will contradict some of the beliefs on the blog...it must really be a manifestation that is really an illusion. wow.

[Ross W]

"i'm sure no one cares"

Quite a challenge to care about someone we don't know who wants to hide his identity from us!

"those who have passed are, on several occasions, seen by multiple people who are still physically alive"

Like Jesus, perhaps!

No-one is denying this phenomenon. We've all heard of Astral bodies. It's just that most here don't believe astral bodies are the ultimate 'Self' -just our emotional vehicles, also mortal. It's also possible per Mr Moody to see someone who's still physically alive on the astral plane - part of their soul always resides there, he says.

[Art]

I lean in the direction that we do not retain our individual identity. - william
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The whole purpose of this life is to become an individual, and the way the soul does that is by experiencing separation. Each one of us is like a little piece of God, baby gods. God's in training. God's children. A piece of God broke off and created us. Somewhat similar to the way in which we were once a part of our parents and now we are individuals. Still connected but separate. The way it happens is by experiencing duality and separation, and by duality I mean such things as religion, politics, race, culture, language, dialects, gender and sexual orientation, color, weight and height, looks, I.Q., education, wealth, even the shape of our teeth and noses and ears. Duality in our lives oftentimes leads to separation. From the moment we are born and we separate from our mothers till the day we die and our deaths become a lesson in separation to those loved ones we left behind. Life is a never ending lesson in separation. Not just separation from people but also places, things, animals, pets, plants, rocks, and trees, cars, etc. Everytime we pick a grape off a vine or a tomato our soul is imprinted with a little bit about what it means to be separate. The soul's lessons are embedded in our everyday lives and it learns holistically what it's supposed to learn without us having to be aware in the least what is going on. Duality and separation, time and space, and imprinting what it's like to live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe.

[Art]

And I don't think we lose our individuality after crossing back over into the Spiritual Universe. The whole purpose of experiencing duality and separation in this life is to have enough of it imprinted on the soul so that it can maintain it's own separate unique identity after crossing back over into the Spiritual Universe. The soul will be "unique but still connected" as Mark Horton states in his NDE. The soul comes here to learn what it means to be separate because it can't learn that in the Spiritual Universe due to those overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness, which is due to it's holographic nature.

[Michael H]

I find it amusing observing the direction these threads can turn, and even more interesting is how things are interpreted by certain posters. In Michael’s initial post, he expressed that he found idealism appealing, but that it didn’t quite click. The question was, I believe, “What am I missing?” He followed with a simple analogy (and a good one), attempting to illustrate how one might understand the idea. The responses, for the most part, have addressed and expanded on those ideas, and I see very few, if any, demanding, “Idealism is what you should believe!”

As Ronnie wrote earlier, there are many that are “very fascinated with the whole "All is One" theme.” There are a lot of people who find the suggestion emotionally uplifting, who are drawn to the positive feelings they enjoy when considering that perhaps everything they’ve encountered in their entire life is divinity, misunderstood.

Yet, Anonymous pops in expressing revulsion for the idea, decrying that the other posters are “unloving”, and generally railing on about his/her interpretation of idealism as being “a manifestation of something that doesn’t exist”, while claiming that “silver birch’s ideas make some sense but they must be wrong.”

The thing is, Anonymous, what I wonder is not whether the other posters care about your contributions, but why you care that others find idealism appealing? There are many, many people today that long for a sense of spiritual connection in a world ruled by materialist tendencies, and do not find that connection in a dualistic interpretation of god, a god that divides people into good and bad, black and white and brown and red and yellow, Christian and Muslim and Jew and Hindu and Buddhist. Idealism suggests that the dualist interpretation is wrong, and that all that truly exists is a manifestation of the divine. Idealism suggests that at the core, there is no separation; there is only the appearance thereof. It further suggests that the means to understanding it lies within our own consciousness, it is a connection that is eternal and unchanging, and that our ultimate destiny is to realize our connection to the divine.

I don’t think anyone should just blindly accept idealism as a new belief, although I think it might be helpful to entertain the idea, to put it on the ‘back burner’ so to speak. Maybe just pretend it’s true for a day – treat everyone and everything you encounter as misunderstood divinity, and see how it makes you feel. But if the idea is upsetting, then perhaps it’s best to just move on. There’s no point for any of us to entertain thoughts or ideas that trouble us.

[Hope Rivers]

Hey Michael I think it may pay to get the facts right, the christian god isn't dividing at all, we are all Gods children and everything here is his creation. Your getting confused with people who have misinterpreted the bible and gave "God" a bad name. Yes sadly they still do exist but all we can do is be compassionate to their ignorance and lack of understanding.

[william]

"I do not pretend to know"

What is it about that statement that suggests that William’s beliefs must be true? I think it is in my writing style as I notice this comes up a lot. There is a knowing that can come from one's life experiences and research and there is a knowing beyond knowing which is rare and comes through realization, which is very rare.

I have had only one full-blown realization in my life. Many insights; one realization. And this realization came in an instant and it changed how I viewed the world. The thing I found interesting is I have been unable to share that realization with another. For a person that spent much of their life teaching this is very frustrating to the ego.

Most confuse the two aspects of reality and think they have a knowing beyond knowing when in reality they have a knowing. (Ie intellectual knowledge)

Kind of like the Christian bible. There is tremendous wisdom in the bible, which the atheists fail to see and there is tremendous ignorance in the bible, which most Christians especially those that take the bible literally fail to see. Separating the two is the great challenge.

Expect I will get some feedback on that statement.

[william]

I have noticed on blogs there often appears to be misunderstandings of our words and concepts. Only once have I experienced in this life what I would call perfect understanding and it came through telepathic communication with an entity on the other side in a dream or visitation state. It was an experience truly to behold. A life review with such perfection words cannot describe it.

Forgive me for stating this many times on here but often it is so trying to try and convey your thoughts in words and concepts and failing miserably but knowing that it is possible to convey those thoughts in a telepathic way that allows perfect or what appeared to be perfect transfer of thoughts with complete understanding.

And the speed at which this telepathic communication can occur. Almost instantaneous.

[Hope Rivers]

Yes William I too had that same experience and people who haven't will never quite get it till they too experience it, so its a waste of time even bothering to explain any further, it matters zilch to anyone else but the experiencer.

[Hope Rivers]

But what I have found is that despite having paranormal experiences, with time (years) and the input of other people's ideas and theories one can get very confused and begin to doubt the validity of the experience, especially when you begin to fall into the thinking its just your "thoughts" that created it or maybe just a hallucination or whatever. The minute you begin doubting yourself everyone begins doubting the validity of your experiences.

[Hope Rivers]

In my NDE the being I met came and appeared to a lady a year after the event, he was full bodied and showed her a rose as proof of hope for me. Now when she told me this and described him to me, I recalled the walk I had with the being where we past the most beautiful garden, I was in awe of the roses and said nothing. Anyway this is an experience no one can take from me, and Thank You God for the amazing opportunity although it hasn't been an easy path since.

[Michael H]

"The christian god isn't dividing at all, we are all Gods children and everything here is his creation."

This may be your interpretation, Hope. But it’s sadly uncommon.

I interpret all of the religions as pointing to truth, but I see none of them as being truth. And I think it's much more than coincidental that all of them can be seen as attempting to express idealism.

In any case, my comment wasn't intended as a reflection on Christianity in particular. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and even the Hindu faith have been corrupted by the concept of dualism. When prominent advocates of a faith speak of casting disbelievers into Hell, or clamor for holy wars to eliminate the infidels, they are both expressing the dangers inherent in dualism. In contrast, the idealist sees the ‘disbelievers’ and the ‘infidels’ as expressions of the divine itself. Divinity, misinterpreted. And while I agree that the only path to overcoming this is through compassion, I don’t see compassion as requiring that one ignore people expressing divisive ideas. And I certainly don’t see anything wrong in suggesting that there may be alternatives to those ideas.

[Ross W]

"I recalled the walk I had with the being where we passed the most beautiful garden. I was in awe of the roses and said nothing. "

It's the hope of experiences like this, Hope, that may delay me merging into the Cosmic Consciousness! Mind you, when I visit lovely gardens here (I belong to the National Trust in the UK), I go home after a few hours. Is that just because I'm tired and hungry and have to sleep ready for work, or would I have enough of a beautiful place anyway? If beauty palls here, then wouldn't a summerworld too? Even if it's good enough to keep one happy for a bit longer than an earthly paradise?

[Michael H]

"And the speed at which this telepathic communication can occur. Almost instantaneous."

I can't help but think of Richard Bucke's description in Cosmic Consciousness of the suddenness of his illumination, which he describes as an instantaneous understanding arriving like a bolt of lightning. We see learning as a gradual process, yet those who experience the most profound insights describe the event as anything but gradual.

[Bryan.A]

Very eloquently described.The whole concept seems familiar with pantheism.I like the idea,working away the ego as we go is the best thing ever for any collective society,be it physical or spiritual life.

[wvogt]

For those of you who give some credence to NDE’s I would like to draw your attention to an account that appears in Kenneth Ring’s Heading Toward Omega. The experiencer here is addressing a higher being of some sort:
“And then I asked him, ‘Since I can’t stay, since I’m going to be going back, I’ve another question to ask. Can you tell me--what it’s all about?’ (Laughter from the audience. In other words, she was asking, she said, how does “the whole thing” work?”)
Sure enough, the higher being did explain, presumably after the laughter died down, in two or three sentences, how “the whole thing worked.” But then he told the experiencer that she would not be able to remember the answer when she returned to earth life. And this turned out to be the case.
This, by itself, would suggest that we are not intended to have the answer to the ultimate question of how this mystery show we are caught up in works, or what it is all about. At least not in this life. If we somehow learn the answer in our earthly setting, that information will be blotted out.
Then consider what Charles Drayton Thomas’ departed father, John Wesley Thomas, said to his son, through the medium Gladys Osborne Leonard:
“Some who have experienced the earlier stages of death and then revived, have given an account of what, at the time, had seemed to be their last moments on earth. Their story is tranquilizing and encouraging. But we learn much more from those who, having finally crossed over, are able to return and describe their falling asleep and the subsequent awakening beyond bodily death.”
From this we gather that the information we get from those who have permanently taken up residence in the next world is better than that from those who just stand at the threshold and are turned back. And what we learn is that those who cross over do not become omniscient, superhuman or saintly and that they are embarked upon a long road of progressive enlightenment. Even they do not have the answer. and will not for a long time to come. We also learn that this place where we are located--the earth--is just about the worst possible one can be in for discovering the solution to any cosmic mystery. We are bathed in an atmosphere that is dark, disorienting and confusing in the extreme.
What I draw from this is that we should not expend a lot of energy jumping to great conclusions. If we do we are jumping in the dark. Rather we are here--if there is any meaning whatsoever--to show, without any firm answers to ultimate questions, what we have got inside us, what we are made of. We make our decisions, groping in the dark, based upon our own individual moral nature, without any ultimate answers to guide us.
That is why, the first thing we die, we get a “life review.”
We are cosmic pipsqueaks, standing on a bottom rung of a great ladder. Beware making great pronouncements. The audience is watching and it is laughing.

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[Ross W]

"Beware making great pronouncements. The audience is watching and it is laughing."

This is a well-thought out contribution. Thank you. However, I, for one, don't mind being laughed at! And I fully intend to go on trying to find out the Ultimate Answer, be it 42 or Infinity!

What you say about progress may well be true. But some NDEs indicate a quick merging into Cosmic Consciousness. Ask Art -he'll quote you chapter and verse.

[Mark Alexander (the other Mark)]

In my experience, the fundamental and unique identity is Soul, beyond time, space, motion, and matter, beyond mind, emotions, and bodies.

Soul awareness can be experienced at times directly without constraints, but because of the nature of karma and spiritual laws, Soul IS constrained by the lower bodies that it has given life to.

Thus, to achieve a more sustained state of Soul awareness (aka Self-Realization) requires finding a way to resolve karma, keep from creating karma (a real challenge since everything you think, do and say including doing nothing creates karma), and aligning with spiritual laws.

Of course our mileage varies as to what constitutes spiritual law and how we each pursue (or not pursue) a path to such ends.