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Hi, Michael I found a article on talk origins.com trying yo debunk Richard Milton's book shattering the myths of darwinism

http://www.2think.org/darwinism.shtml

Michael, Michael, Michael . . . don’t you know that These 36 COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE QUESTIONS are nothing more that ANOTHER GROSSLY UNFAIR ATTACK on Victor and the ABSOLUTELY AMAZING DAVID THOMPSON? Any REAL LAWYER CAN SEE RIGHT THROUGH THESE SKEPTICS who KNOW NOTHING ABOUT SCIENCE, LIKE REAL LAWYERS DO!

I’m sure Victor would happily ARRANGE A PRESENTATION to CONVINCE YOU BEYOND ALL DOUBT!*

*Please provide round trip air fare and full accommodations for at least 6 people, a minimum of 40 participants at a fee of $280.00 each and full disclosure of personal private medical information for all participants. All participants should be prepared to undergo full hands-on body searches prior to the presentation.

Michael,

I don't know if you have come across this site-
www.spiritsinc.co.uk.
(Apologies if it has been mentioned before.)

There is an excerpt from one of Colin Fry's "Magnus" dvds during which he channels his guide Magnus in full view of an audience.

Magnus sounds remarkably similar to David Thomson's "William".

In an attempt to direct attention to those who legitimately deserve it, Dean Radin's at it http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18194788?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum >again. From the linked abstract:

This pilot study suggests the presence of a nonlocal perturbation effect that is consistent with traditional concepts of intuition as a direct means of gaining knowledge about the world, and with the predicted effects of observation on a quantum system.

Conventional explanations for these results were considered and judged to be implausible.

Consciousness causing collapse, Michael?

Not sure which Michael you're talking to John, but if you're referencing the abstract I linked, if I understand it properly, it appears they demonstrated that seasoned meditators could effect the light output of lasers within a sealed chamber, which implies the ability to influence photons on the quantum level.

Radin said on his blog that he would provide the full paper if requested via email.

It won't be me, because I don't want to think that much. :-)

I was considering adding the initial. :)

That's neat, though. At this point, it gets very difficult to reject a form of mind dualism with all of what we're seeing.

I guess I see it as supportive of the idea of consciousness extending well beyond the physical confines of the brain.

As far as what that implies . . .

Michael I wouldn't give David the time of day, its clear he won't do what he has too, to prove he is a genuine materialising medium. Which says enough about credibility.

It's very obvious he's after fame and noteriety. I've read Victor's book, seen the pics, checked out David's site and read enough and will follow my usually "right" intuition regarding his "abilities".

Just as not to confuse this is directed too Michael ;-P

That Radin paper sounds pretty cool. Trouble is, the results will have to be replicated many times before mainstream science will take a look. One series of tests can always be chalked up to a statistical fluke by those so inclined.

The shame of Michael's observation is that replication of such effects would BEG for funding and very likely founder for lack of it.Also, the pseudo-arguments from the Pseudo-Skeptics would scare away those genuinely intrigued by Dr. Radin's results. I only recently finished Stephen Braude's "The Gold Leaf Lady..." and couldn't help being impressed with the scorn he vented on the academic closed minds he has had to deal with. Those same minds would reject Radin's findings out of hand (as they do all the rest of voluminous research results which clearly indicate the reality of psi), and shout a cacophony of protest if continued research was funded. The problem with the Mainstream is that the stream is polluted with prejudice and hubris. History is actually on our side: I can only recall too clearly that Newton scoffed at the notion that rocks (meteors) could fall from the skies, and Einstein rejected the fundamentals of quantum theory ("God does NOT play dice..."), so the croakings from the scientific Mainstream are more easily ignored than their collective egos would probably like. Michael H.'s entry above is well placed, as non-locality seems to be the branch in the Stream we need to explore if we seek understanding in the ultimate questions related to consciousness.

“I wouldn't give David the time of day . . . It's very obvious he's after fame and notoriety.”

Absolutely, Hope.

If I didn’t know better, since it would imply a sort of subterfuge, I might think Mr. Prescott brought the ongoing conversations at the SCR to our awareness in the hope that it might draw some additional attention to the suspicious (and recently cruel) activities of the esteemed DT.

As many at the SCR are speculating, it appears DT’s gravy train has been severely derailed. So it goes. If it comes to it, Mr. David Thompson can always secure a position selling cheesecloth.

Or harmonicas.

As far as Radin's findings, good points by both Kevin and MP.

It's fascinating that a single experiment supposedly supporting the materialist paradigm was reported a month ago as "the best evidence to date that PSI doesn't exist", yet Radin's paper is very likely to be filed along with many others in a rarely inspected but already bulging file.

Who was it that said that paradigms change one funeral at a time?

Ironically, what I am about to say may sound closed-minded, but I think that we need to have some sort of open-mindedness test. If you fail, then you are not allowed to be a scientist. It seems pretty silly that tests need to be replicated many times before scientists will take them seriously, and yet taking them seriously is exactly what is needed to get them replicated many times. Catch-22. Unless we close out everyone who is not open-minded. This issue goes beyond paranormal research - science, as it is practiced today, is fundamentally flawed and will continue to be so until, seemingly ironically, we stop allowing scientists to have freedom of belief.

>I might think Mr. Prescott brought the ongoing conversations at the SCR to our awareness in the hope that it might draw some additional attention to the suspicious (and recently cruel) activities of the esteemed DT.

What I mainly wanted to draw attention to was the amount of money involved. It seems as if Thompson expects to make roughly $11,000 per appearance ($280 X 40 people), in addition to having all travel expenses (airfare, hotels, meals, etc.) paid, not only for himself but for a five-person entourage.

How many appearances would he make in a US tour? Let's say he does two appearances per day for three weeks. That would be about forty appearances. That's $440,000 plus all expenses.

Quite a large chunk of change, isn't it? Yet we have been assured that Thompson makes no money in his work with the Circle. Maybe not - but clearly the notoriety he's gained through the Circle has led him to believe that he can now earn a significant income on tour.

Why would Thompson sit with the Circle week after week without pay, unless he is the genuine article? This is a question that his defenders have often asked. Here we see a possible answer: He sat with them for free in order to get the worldwide publicity that now allows him to charge prices like these.

If you were offered the chance to work for free in your spare time for a year and a half, with the prospect of a $440,000 payoff down the line, would you do it?

I think this is a good time for a rerun of the Michael Prescott appearance on AfterlifeFM.

P.S. The show topic was DT and VZ. Needless to say, after this show aired Mr. Zammit went on the offensive against myself and Mr. Prescott. We're still standing.

Hey I just heard the interview on Afterlife, you are such a crack up Marcel, I love your Louie Armstrong impersonation. I reckon it would be hilarious sitting at one of David's seances. I reckon Marcel you could do David and Michael you do Victor Zammit, I'm sure you could round up some regulars here to be sitters and hey presto with a bit of time and some marketing the sky's the limit.

Michael H, I wouldn't buy cheesecloth from Thompson, after all the pics I've seen of materialising mediums I'd hate to think where it's been.

>If you were offered the chance to work for free in your spare time for a year and a half, with the prospect of a $440,000 payoff down the line, would you do it?

Where do I sign?

I've read Radin's paper in the journal Explore, and one of the most interesting features of it was that his results were so good with the trained meditators that he was becoming concerned no one would believe in the legitimacy of the experiment. He says at this point, when he started worrying that his results were too incredible, he noticed a definite decline effect: the perturbation of the quantum system was reduced exactly in line with the time that he began being concerned. So it would appear the experimenter effect was working here.

Absolutely fascinating. I think it's another bit of brilliant experimental design by Radin, proving objectively, not SUBJectively, that the mind can extend beyond the skull do remote view. If it can be replicated, it will be about as perfect a proof of duality and the non-epiphenomenal nature of consciousness as there can be.

That's fascinating, Tim.

I have a lot of admiration for Radin. I can only imagine the grief he's endured for choosing to explore what and where he has, but eventually his work will have to be taken seriously.

It's a lonely road he's on, and it takes guts to go there.

Agreed. I think Radin will eventually wind up with a Nobel Prize.

You never know. He may be young enough to see it happen - he's only celebrating his 14th birthday this month . . .

One of the explanations that I have not heard explained is that some of the sitters have dead relatives come through and they are convinced that indeed it was their deceased relative that came through and this “spirit” knew information that only the sitter and the relative knew.


If the guy is a phony, he may be worth that amount of money for his ability to fool that many people for that length of time.

The jury is still out from my point of view and to say he is a fraud or not a fraud with the information we have then we fall into the same trap as the materialist and the ultra skeptic. Let the data do the talking not our beliefs.

Keeping an open mind is the greatest of challenges in any research. The mind appears to have an innate desire to jump to a conclusion. The cost of attending a séance is not that out of line. Don’t forget your passive night vision goggles. Bet they take them away from you at the door during the shakedown. Not a good sign.

His materializations seem to be limited to a few personas. I wonder if he does mental mediumship aside from his "physical." It might be possible if he does mental mediumship for people to believe him.

Although at the same time, he might be a cold reader too, so we can never know.

>...Let the data do the talking not our beliefs.
William
Amen to thay!
Rod McK

Should read
"Amen to that"

Hi Michael
I joined the spiritualist website you mentioned. There is quite a lot of interesting stuff. There seems to be a very eclectic mix from the "grab this pink crystal" brigade to people who have had direct experience of well established mediums like Leslie Flint.Incidentally for those who havent read it I can recommend Leslie's autobiog.

ps did you ever get any feedback on that Chess game? I havent so far.

"Agreed. I think Radin will eventually wind up with a Nobel Prize."

I doubt it. The scientific community is hostile to something as "down to earth" as offering a philosophical interpretation of quantum mechanics (I can't blame them since there has been a lot of New Age abuse in this area). Do you really think that they're ever going to be open to something as "out there" as psychic phenomena?

Eventually.

I might be an optimist, but after all, bats used to use their wings to navigate, continental drift was utterly ridiculous and quantum physics were spooky action at a distance.

>did you ever get any feedback on that Chess game?

Feedback? I'm not sure what you mean. I read the article and found it very interesting; the degree of chess expertise apparently exhibited by the medium is hard to explain non-paranormally. But not being a chessmaster myself, I'm not in the best position to evaluate the story.

>Let the data do the talking not our beliefs.

To me, the data mostly point to deception, unfortunately.

>"Keeping an open mind is the greatest of >challenges in any research. The mind >appears to have an innate desire to jump to >a conclusion."

This is the interesting thing, though, isn't it? There seems to be a requirement for faith or emotional commitment at the highest level: a subjective need becomes part of the equation. It may well be that the reason particle physics hasn't made any serious advances in 50 years is because they are now at a level where recognition of the subject has become vital. The scientific paradigm now somehow needs to take a quantum leap and embrace the important contribution of conscious intent.

"The scientific community is hostile to something as "down to earth" as offering a philosophical interpretation of quantum mechanics (I can't blame them since there has been a lot of New Age abuse in this area). Do you really think that they're ever going to be open to something as "out there" as psychic phenomena?"

What the scientific community is currently blind to is the wild metaphysical speculations they themselves have been involved in for the last 80 years. It's been going on in both physics and cosmology to an alarming degree, and the best minds of that time have been wasted as a consequence.

You're absolutely right about the "New Age" abuse ('The Secret' makes me want to puke!), but eventually the mainstream will have to consider the implications of Radin's (and others) work.

My concern is whether that will happen before humanity implodes.

Michael H, I don't think you have to worry too strongly about humanity imploding. Humanity has more or less always been this way, it's just that now with the way information can travel these days, we are able to hear about it more.

I hope you're right, John.

It appears to me that we're reaching a critical mass of some sort, though. And continuing in the direction we're in, with the current philosophical foundations at war with one another cannot bode well for the survival of the species.

I do hope you're right, and as the Chinese proverb suggests, we certainly live in interesting times. I'm honestly not worried though, because as I've mentioned before, the consciousness at the core of existence will continue to manifest either way.

Michael H: "I'm honestly not worried though, because as I've mentioned before, the consciousness at the core of existence will continue to manifest either way."

I wish I could say and feel the same. I keep thinking of the old saying that for evil to triumph it only requires that good men to do nothing. As we retreat into our subjective idealism, we tell ourselves that this wonderful manifestation Gaia doesn't really matter. I need to be convinced of it, though I suppose there's not much philosophers can do these days to seriously impact on the scary nature of our shared reality...unless 2012 brings enlightenment to all!

That's true Ross, and I'm not saying we should retreat into subjective idealism.

What I do think though, is that unless many actually begin to see that we are sharing an ultimately subjective reality we will collectively share a very dangerous objective reality.

I'm certainly not retreating, on the contrary, I'm attempting to deconstruct belief wherever I find it.

Starting with me.

Michael H: "I'm attempting to deconstruct belief wherever I find it."

It is a noble aim, I applaud it- deconstruction begins at home. And I have noticed how the world can subtly change based on decisions and attitudes: perhaps in this way, we can reconstruct and move into an appropriate reality. If that is so, faith in our own power to create becomes critical.

"I have noticed how the world can subtly change based on decisions and attitudes."

There you go, Ross. I'm not kidding when I say that all we're looking for is a really, really good mood . . . :)

Michael H: "all we're looking for is a really, really good mood . . . :) "

Someone has recommended "The Astonishing Power of the Emotions" by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Normally I would eschew such fare, but I wonder...
http://www.abraham-hicks.com/APE.html
Any thoughts, Michael?

I'm not familiar with that title, but I did begin to read "Ask and It is Given" by the authors, which I couldn't finish. I had the same problem with "Manifest your Destiny" by Wayne Dyer.

I'm pretty sure the former title was the inspiration for "The Secret", which I had a strong objection to. I was more comfortable with "What the Bleep", in terms of the popular New Age fare.

I think that all of these are good for drawing attention to the role of thought in influencing our perception of reality, but I think they imply that altering thought processes is an active process - kind of a spin on the 'power of positive thinking'.

It's certainly better to make an effort to think positively that not, but my experience is that just creating some distance within is enough to make a significant change. What I think that all of these titles miss is that if we just notice what's going on in our own minds, more positive, unconditional feelings of wellbeing arise by themselves from deep within us. If we get good at noticing, we'll discover that really, really good mood I mentioned has always been there, but we've obscured it with all of the noise in our heads. It's really difficult to describe; George Pransky once drew the analogy that our inner wisdom is like a flute constantly playing beautiful music, but most of us rarely hear it because of the loud brass band in the foreground. When I discovered it for the first time I felt pretty sheepish, but in a warm, comfortable way. I still spend a lot of time listening to the brass band; the biggest difference is I know the flute's still playing somewhere.

I've mentioned Sydney Banks before, who I'd recommend to anyone, and I also think Eckhart Tolle is saying basically the same thing. "The Relationship Handbook" by George Pransky can also be valuable for anyone, even though it's intended audience is those struggling with a marriage. Richard Carlson is also trying to direct his audience to a quiet state of mind.

It's not a book, but Judy Sedgeman has over 70http://www.hsc.wvu.edu/wviih/resourcesAndPublications/reflectionsEssays.asp> essays available in PDF at the WVU site.

What all of these are pointing to is the deep connection that naturally exists between our psychology and our spirituality. The only thing I'd add is that it's likely to be beneficial for anyone reading them to try to notice the resistance the intellect erects as one takes in their words - it's the intellect you're trying to quiet, and it really likes making noise.

Like a brass band.

That's an amazingly full response, Michael, fow which I thank you.

Interesting that you should choose the metaphor of noise - synchronicity perhaps! -because literal noise is in fact my main psychological bugbear. The brass bands played by other people always seems to be able to drown out the flute in my head!

Anyway, I shall explore your recommendations.

"The brass bands played by other people always seems to be able to drown out the flute in my head!"

It's other people's brass band that tends to get my own blaring. The trick is hanging on to our own flute music when confronted with another who's completely spellbound by their own brass band. Knowing that they're likely unaware of their own band can help. :)

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