IMG_0569
Blog powered by Typepad

« Two links | Main | Secrets of "A. Medium" »

Comments

I don't think anybody on this board doubts that people (escape artists or magicians) can get out of the flex cuffs. If that was the only thing DT was doing, there wouldn't be much of a story.

But can they duplicate the other aspects of the DT seance? If we are to believe that DT is escaping and walking around the room, can the escape artists do the same thing and manipulate the trumpet at high speeds (without any trick apparatus) and do it without knocking people in the head? And
do it in the dark? Without getting caught?

And can they talk in various voices and provide some information that convinces at least one person in the circle that they have communicated with a loved one who they were very close to when they were alive?

If they can do everything that DT does, I'll be impressed and pushed even further into the skeptical corner when it comes to DT.

Roslyn needs to do a little unbiased research on the reality of spoon bending.

Well I doubt if they can get out of the same conditions that DT claims to be put into...

Since Roslyn is so much concerned about the gullible, he/she should demonstrate this practically in front of people and also post a vid, so skeptics like us in this forum can ascertain if the escape artists can deliver on their promises...

Maybe they should have nigh vision cameras too and we can see how this would pan out tooo...

maybe if he can prove fraud he can collect that 500,000 victor has put up to anyone that can prove fraud.

hope he knows how to convince the sitters that their loved ones are there to greet them.

Michael, I have entered the forum, which you have mentioned. There is a link, which is called mental mediumship. You can watch some videos (Youtube), where Darren discredits remote viewing and mental mediumship. Here is the exzernal link: http://badpsychics.com/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=388.
Can someone explain, after watching these videos, why mediums do not use such techniques subconsciously. Mind reading like DB does should although work, when people do not know about this technique. I am really confused.

Hi, Joki

That is nothing new at all Michael Shermer also has a youtube video trying to debunk remote viewing he never really investigates it but says well that cannot exist. I think you mean Derren Brown a mentalist I saw his video I like to see be tested by gary schwartz under strict controlled conditions.

Hi, Joki

That is nothing new at all Michael Shermer also has a youtube video trying to debunk remote viewing he never really investigates it but says well that cannot exist. I think you mean Derren Brown a mentalist I saw his video I like to see be tested by gary schwartz under strict controlled conditions.

I am sorry, the name of this famous mentalist and debunker (??) is Derren Brown.

Hey, maybe Roslyn CAN escape under the same conditions as DT. I mean, that's what he does, right? That's fine. It's the other stuff I want to see him replicate.

There's an awful lot of "will to believe" going on here ...

Bottom line is that if Thompson can escape from the flex-cuffs, the rest of his act is just window-dressing. What does it consist of? Some lame imitations of dead celebrities? The voices Marcel Cairo did on his Internet radio show sounded just as good. Vague pronouncements about global warming and love? Anyone can speak in platitudes. Convincing the sitters that a friend or loved one is talking to them? Phony mediums have been doing that since the 1800s (or earlier).

I really don't see why people are so reluctant to concede the obvious: there is fraud at work in these seances. It doesn't discredit the legitimate evidence for life after death. It doesn't undermine the work done by Richard Hodgson with Leonora Piper, for instance; or Ian Stevenson's reincarnation research; or Michael Sabom's and Kenneth Ring's NDE research ...

If evidence for the afterlife were limited to hearing the ectoplasmic form of Louis Armstrong sing "Hello Dolly" in a dark room, I would have lost interest in the subject long ago.

There's an awful lot of "will to believe" going on here ...

Bottom line is that if Thompson can escape from the flex-cuffs, the rest of his act is just window-dressing. What does it consist of? Some lame imitations of dead celebrities? The voices Marcel Cairo did on his Internet radio show sounded just as good. Vague pronouncements about global warming and love? Anyone can speak in platitudes. Convincing the sitters that a friend or loved one is talking to them? Phony mediums have been doing that since the 1800s (or earlier).

I really don't see why people are so reluctant to concede the obvious: there is fraud at work in these seances. It doesn't discredit the legitimate evidence for life after death. It doesn't undermine the work done by Richard Hodgson with Leonora Piper, for instance; or Ian Stevenson's reincarnation research; or Michael Sabom's and Kenneth Ring's NDE research ...

If evidence for the afterlife were limited to hearing the ectoplasmic form of Louis Armstrong sing "Hello Dolly" in a dark room, I would have lost interest in the subject long ago.

Sorry for the double post. Typepad sucks.

joki: Michael Prescott did several blog topics criticizing Derren Brown quite awhile back, search through the archives.

Eteponge, Thank you for the advise. Of course I have read them before. But these videos are at least worth to discuss.

"I really don't see why people are so reluctant to concede the obvious: there is fraud at work in these seances."

* * * * *

Go back and listen to what you said on Marcel's show. I'm paraphrasing...

You said that since you're not in Australia, you can't say what exactly is going on in the DT seances.

Unless you have been to Australia lately, nothing has changed.

We're reluctant to "concede the obvious," because that's not a scientific way to do things. Incomplete data. Amazing how you've changed your tune because escape artists say they can get out of the cuffs. Or was it something else?

I think you've been telling us for a long time that the DT cuffs was not secure and that he could get out of them. So what has changed that you're now labeling him a fraud without further data?

"Amazing how you've changed your tune because escape artists say they can get out of the cuffs. Or was it something else?"

YYou can say that again... all we have now is some escapists caliming they can escape...

no live demo, no recorded demo... just their word... and we all know the reliablity of the materialists word...

so first I would like to see them escape, then we will get to what MP calls the "window dressing" part...

Let's not forget that David Thompson and Victor Zammit have made no effort to tighten the security on these so-called seances despite the many criticisms leveled against them. Instead we get good ol' Victor railing on about his "personal guarantee" that something paranormal is going on.

The whole David Thompson business stinks of fraud, and the burden of proof rests with him and Zammit. So far they haven't provided us with anything but some fake looking photos of ectoplasm and a lot of extravagant claims.

Unless they come up with something truly "world shattering" the most reasonable position to take would be that fraud is taking place.

No.. the most resonable position is
"We don't know"

the less resonable position is "fraud is taking place" is as you say VZ has not even published his protocols of the seance... but I guess he has...

so, the skeptics should show me how an escape can be done under those protocols and I will consider the less resonable position...

untill then" I don't know"

>Unless you have been to Australia lately, nothing has changed.

What's changed is that two escape artists have told me they can duplicate Thompson's act. Before this, while I knew it was possible to escape from flex-cuffs, I wasn't sure if it could be done when the hands were cuffed separately, far apart from each other. But the escape artists in question have assured me this is not a problem. They have even indicated in general terms how the trick is done.

I have no reason to doubt their word. I do have every reason to doubt David Thompson. Remember, this is a guy who performs in pitch darkness, will not permit passive infrared equipment in the seance room, regularly produces dead celebrities like Louis Armstrong and Harry Houdini, has made mistakes in the voices he uses (no Scottish accent for A.C. Doyle, a Southern dialect for Houdini), almost never produces any female voices, evades direct questions about the celebrities' biographies while in character, and has apparently produced very little evidential information.

Meanwhile, as Nate says, the Circle of the Silver Cord has not tightened up its procedures or addressed any of the criticisms made by me, Marcel Cairo, and many others.

"What's changed is that two escape artists have told me they can duplicate Thompson's act"

Is Roslyn one of them? Because I wrote him and he told me he can get out of the cuffs but that he never claimed to be able to duplicate DT's act.

I'm waiting for him to get back to me for permission to post his response. He MIGHT be able to duplicate DT's act. He said he would try. But that's because I challenged him and he said he enjoys a challenge.

>Is Roslyn one of them?

Yes.

>Because I wrote him and he told me he can get out of the cuffs but that he never claimed to be able to duplicate DT's act.

I should have phrased this better. By "duplicate Thompson's act," I meant he can escape from the same type of flex-cuffs, applied the same way, and then get back into them later, and do all this in the dark.

As far as I'm concerned, that is Thompson's act. The rest is just window-dressing - some weak impersonations of dead celebrities, a little bit of "trumpet phenomena," a handshake or a hug in the dark.

Who cares if Roslyn can imitate Louis Armstrong? Some people are good at impressions, some aren't. The key thing is that there is no longer any reason to think that Thompson is really secured to his chair once the lights are out.

If the Circle of the Silver Cord would like to prove otherwise, all they have to do (he said for the millionth and hopefully last time) is tighten up the controls. Secure Thompson in some relatively escape-proof fashion. I gave specific suggestions, provided by another escape artist, in a previous post.

By the way, VZ claims that they also put "seals," on the restraints. I am not sure exactly what he means by this. If they're legitimate seals that will tell us if the ties have been opened, then it may be tougher to get out without leaving behind evidence of such. Maybe impossible? Depends on the seals.

Just because the escape artists MAY be able to get out, I'll only be impressed if they can duplicate DT's act. And I'm not just talking about voices. But hell, I am not even sure what a full DT seance looks like so I can't really speak about it confidently. I need to be there to see what is happening.
Even then, I may be fooled in the dark. But at least I can TRY to gain some knowledge instead of speculating.

When I DO see a DT seance in person and I DO come away impressed, I'll be curious to see a magician or escape artist who can duplicate DT's full act. And the impersonations won't have to be good for me to be impressed.

Michael, do you have a link that describes how fraudulent mediums have manipulated the trumpet (with luminous bands) at high speeds without knocking people upside their heads and gently touching people on their heads or arms with supposed precision?

I know you mention the psychic mafia book but is there a summary online?

>I know you mention the psychic mafia book but is there a summary online?

Not that I know of. However, the book can be ordered (used) from Amazon or abebooks.com . Search for The Psychic Mafia by M. Lamar Keene.

Revelations of a Spirit Medium is online and contains similar material, though from an earlier era.

Regarding the trumpet, I believe it usually has luminous bands around its mouth (the larger end) so that it can be seen in the dark. My guess is that these bands provide just enough light to allow the medium to see the trumpet's position relative to the sitters. The light would not illuminate the medium, who is holding the trumpet at its small end, maybe three feet away (or farther, if it's a prop trumpet that can be expanded).

Note that only small movements at the base of the trumpet will produce much larger movements at the other end. If you want to test this, take a yardstick, broomstick, or similar object and see how a minor flick of the wrist will rapidly move the far end across several feet.

I've asked Victor Zammit why David Thompson has not investigated the possibility of using infrared video cameras. He said:

He [William - a Spirit guide] stated that ‘active’ infra red filming cameras emit radiation and radiation attacks ectoplasm. When that happens he said, the medium could be seriously injured – even death could occur. He told us to wait and to see how in the future that problem could be resolved.

I would seriously question this response. Firstly, I used to sit in a home circle with Stewart Alexander. His guides were very enthousiastic about filming physical phenomena and told us we must "push ahead" with it. Unfortunately, the medium didn't want to.

Secondly, since the primary source of infrared radiation is heat or thermal radiation, any object which has a temperature i.e. anything above absolute zero, radiates in the infrared.

Therefore, there is ALREADY plenty of radiation in the seance room! Every single sitter, including the medium, are shining beacons of infrared radiation!

We can also come into contact with other forms of radiation through sources such as X-rays, nuclear power plants, and smoke detectors.

Yet phenomena STILL happens! And with no detrimental effect to the medium.

Since ectoplasm is supposed to consist of material from the medium and sitters, the ectoplasm itself is emitting radiation!!!

And yet we are supposed to accept that an infrared camera's radiation is detrimental to ectoplasm!

So why on earth are tape recorders allowed into the seance room then - they emit radiation?

Non of this makes any logical sense whatsoever. Contradictions everywhere!

I'm sorry, but such plainly ridiculous excuses why infrared video film cannot be taken, just don't stand up to close scrutiny.

I've been waiting well over 10 years for a reasonable explanation - I've yet to hear one.

Victor Zammit has posted a video online. You can view it at the following link:

http://www.victorzammit.com/videos/afterlifeintroduction.wmv

He [William - a Spirit guide] stated that ‘active’ infra red filming cameras emit radiation and radiation attacks ectoplasm

If the Spirit guides have internet access, perhaps they could do a search for "passive infrared". It relies solely on the thermal radiation emitted by human bodies — rather than emitting any of its own, as active IR does — which makes it very ectoplasm-friendly.

They're expensive, but that's amply covered by the AU$500K reward Victor offers, right?

Time for a new excuse, perhaps?

marcos ferreira said:

"Time for a new excuse, perhaps?"

We've just had it! Apparently heat is now harmful to ectoplasm according to poster, thermal camera:

"A less expensive "infra red" camera cannot be used in a seance because it will require an infra red light source of a temperature far above room temperature and this is believed to be harmful to ectoplasm."

See Closing the book on Sydney.

Thanks, I just read that comment and posted a long reply there.

He's talking about active-IR. Thermal imaging solutions don't require the emission of an infrared "ray", which is what "William" talks about when he's interviewed http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/keen/thompson.htm#infrared>here.

Cost is no objection: they can be rented, otherwise it would be easy to find backers to go after VZ's reward. And if DT turns out to be real, I'm sure the footage could be sold for a tidy sum. It's win-win!

More likely: we get a really tortuous excuse from "William the spirit guide", probably involving "harmful rays unknown to your primitive materialist science which happen to be emitted by thermal imaging cameras, but not normal digital cameras or tape recorders."

Psychic Times, have you sat in on a DT seance?

Please tell us more about your experiences with Stewart Alexander. He SEEMS like a legit physical medium and is still at it today.

Have those who have been pushing for infra red cameras, tested if such cameras affect the lab rats when they emit ectoplasm???

if not it would be way too dangerous to try this on human subjects.. especially when such subjects are not comfortable with it...

now if those pushing for this can underwrite the insurance, emergency medical help etc etc then there could be consieration for these...

Have those who have been pushing for infra red cameras, tested if such cameras affect the lab rats when they emit ectoplasm???

Essentially, yes.

The only two issues are infrared radiation (i.e. heat) and electromagnetic radiation.

Dave Thompson has "produced ectoplasm" in the presence of high levels of both, much higher than the levels created by any camera technology.

The infrared given off by a small piece of electronic equipment is dwarved by that of the human body, and he regularly performs in a room full of these. Passive IR cameras do not emit any "infrared rays" of the type DT's spirit guide mentions when discussing why active IR cameras are disallowed. Starlight cameras, which will operate under dim red light, are basically no different than the digital cameras which have already been used to take photos of DT under such conditions.

As for electromagnetic: these cameras, being expensive and well-made, are very well shielded, meaning that emissions are kept to a minimum. Meanwhile, we are constantly being bombarded by EM radiation from the power network, radio and television transmissions, mobile phone networks... DT has performed in cities and private homes, which are measurably saturated by EM radiation at a level far higher than that created by any of these cameras.

There appears to be no technical reason why the camera types suggested cannot be used. No doubt DT will claim his spirit guide has deemed them dangerous, but if he can't give a specific reason — so that the problem can be eliminated — then it looks like a weak excuse.

I'm sure the insurance costs would be trivial. There are no recorded instances of "death due to ectoplasmic interference during a seance", so the premiums would be cheaper than, say, a week's travel insurance.

The comments to this entry are closed.