Moses and Ramses, together again

A reader pointed me to the Montague Keen Web site, one of the stranger afterlife sites I've seen. Keen himself was a well-known researcher into the paranormal, and though I have my doubts about some of his investigations (notably his seance with David Thompson), I never doubted his seriousness.

His posthumous site, on the other hand, is hard to take seriously. It consists, in part, of messages supposedly delivered by the discarnate Keen. The messages are taken down by his widow, Veronica, through automatic writing:

These communications are as letters Montague writes to me at 3pm every Sunday, I check through two mediums what has been written, such as 'who did Montague show me clearly?' and and I asked the meaning of the 3rd scene he showed me. One was a man highly respected in history, who is now part of what Montague calls the 'Network'. He wanted to show me the calibre of the people we are working with. I am not allowed to divulge this information as yet.

In the latest message, "Montague" claims to be assisted in his afterlife adventures by both Moses and Ramses the Great. Since these rather noteworthy names are given, we can only speculate as to the even more noteworthy name that was withheld. I'm guessing Jesus.

The post also contains this none-too-veiled reference to an afterlife researcher:

The dishonest ones will no longer be able to control the field in which we work. All that is needed now is patience for G.S. to slip up and expose the fraud that he is. Our Foundation will step forward as a Centre of Influence to bring people together as never before.

The G.S. in question is presumably Gary Schwartz of the University of Arizona, with whom Veronica had a much-publicized falling-out.

Great events are promised for September, though the nature of these events is left unspecified.

Then there's this political message:

Man has lost his way completely, the gun-culture is taking over and yet Governments continue to fail to deal with it. Violence must be removed from T.V., films and magazines etc., they have succeeded in brainwashing our children that violence will bring respect and rich rewards. The people who exploit the young with drugs and guns should be severely dealt with. We hope to show a better way forward, things will have to change. How many more killings must there be before action is taken?

Hey, wait a minute. I write violent stuff. I don't want some busybodies from the afterlife messing with my livelihood, even if they are Moses and Ramses! (And by the way, weren't Moses and Ramses archenemies? Well, time heals all wounds.)

I glanced through some of the earlier messages. It appears that the afterlife community is very much behind Hillary Clinton's candidacy - talk about having friends in high places! One message waxes enthusiastic about the brave new world:

Yes my dear Ban-Ki-Moon is certainly living up to our expectations, he is such a good man, he is a leader who can communicate with confidence, he knows and understands what needs to be done.  Just think what he will achieve when Hillary Clinton and Nancy Polosi [sic] work with him, that is the political triangle we in Spirit have chosen to heal the World.

(Ban-Ki-Moon is the current UN secretary general.)

Incidentally, one would think that if the greatest minds in history have gathered together in the afterlife to support Nancy Pelosi, they would at least learn how to spell her name.

Then there is this foray into science:

You are experiencing in your World an escalation of floods and Natural Disasters and it will continue, we have pointed out several times the WORLD IS OFF BALANCE, all you need is for it to be degree out and you will get all those problems that are occurring. Your scientists know this and try to rectify it but the problem stems from NUCLEAR EXPLOSIONS moving the Earth off balance and if they are not careful they will push it right off balance and send it swirling out of control. That is why you have winters and summers all mixed up.

Nuclear explosions have moved the Earth off balance? It sounds like Veronica is channeling Sylvia Browne (also known for her oddball weird-science claims).

From the same post, more politics:

I return once again to HILLARY CLINTON, yes she would bring STABILITY, PEACE and HARMONY. So many countries hate the U.S. because of their greed - they have taken what is not rightfully theirs. We must look to WOMEN to bring SANITY to your World.

This is followed by an anti-Israel screed. It appears that the afterlife is heavily influenced by the Daily Kos.

All of this is interspersed with grandiose claims of huge developments in the offing, though specifics are never given. Allegedly, the "Network" - twelve high-level discarnates, including Moses, Ramses , and Montague Keen himself - are working to produce some great spiritual revelation in the near future. One can only imagine that it will be world-shattering.   

Earlier predictions have not panned out. On February 20, this prediction was posted:

For the record, we are expecting something big and significant to happen on February 22, 2007. More on this soon.

Despite the promise "More on this soon," there appears to have been no follow-up. Nor do I recall anything of great significance happening on February 22. A Google News search turned up no big events. One news story did report:

First BanCorp described the material terms and conditions of the Stockholder Agreement in a Current Report on Form 8-K that was filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on February 22, 2007.

Maybe the filing of this form with the SEC was the "big and significant" "something" that was scheduled for the 22nd?

Okay, sorry for the snarky tone. I once spoke to Veronica Keen on the telephone, and she was very gracious and kind and utterly sincere. I don't like being nasty to her. I'm afraid, however, that I have little patience with the vague and doubtful claims posted on the Montague Keen site, and I suspect (or hope) that Montague Keen would have felt likewise.

I'm also none too fond of defamatory attacks on Gary Schwartz, even though I have my own criticisms of some of his work. If the good people at the Montague Keen Foundation have evidence of impropriety and misconduct on Schwartz's part, they should present this evidence publicly. If they have no evidence, then they should stop smearing him by innuendo.

And maybe they should climb off the Hillary bandwagon while they're at it. Even Hillary's most enthusiastic supporters in the U.S. don't say she is going to save the world.

Critical thinking is a virtue. We need to encourage it in the field of paranormal investigations. That's what Montague Keen tried to do, and it's the best - and only - way to carry on his true legacy.

Comments

[TomC]

michael,

you're certainly brought up some of things that bothered me on Montague's site. that Feb. 22nd event definitely baffled me.

but in those communications, alot of extraordinary things were spoken, and i find them harder and harder to believe. it really made people on that site gullible, or that they no longer feel the need to convince people, and wanted others to just take their words for it.

i read alot about montague in david fontana's book and other online resources- and while i do feel that this post may come off negative and confrontational, but at least you have pointed out the problems.

as for gary schwartz, i still like to give him the benefit of the doubt. i would imagine that in an university environment, he wouldnt have lasted this long if he was just a faker.

[Alex]

This exemplifies why I only have a superficial interest in "paranormal" phenomena. People who get too immersed in this stuff tend to get a little batty.

[william]

Alex well I have been immersed in this paranormal stuff and yes you are right there are a lot of people that would put me into the category of batty.

Anytime one reaches out to investigate those areas not accepted as established beliefs; then be prepared to be labeled: batty or worst.

It is called mental comfort and we love to stay in our comfort zone. I think research into the mysteries of life can be the most exciting and also the most frustrating.

We can put a man on the moon and build wonderful killing machines but we still don’t want to do serious research (outside the realm of materialism) into the greatest of all mysteries: consciousness and awareness.

But we will give us time and experiences.

[TomC]

William, I don't think you're batty at all. in fact, i think many of us who commented on this forum are NOT batty at all. and definitely not michael.

there is a comfort zone, but we should always been honest with ourselves, and be critical and open-minded.

[Michael Prescott]

>People who get too immersed in this stuff tend to get a little batty.

Perhaps you'll be surprised to hear that I basically agree with this. That's why I limit my involvement mostly to armchair research. People who get too caught up in the paranormal can definitely pay a price.

I think George Hansen's book The Trickster and the Paranormal gives the most comprehensive explanation of why this is so. Paranormal phenomena are marginal or liminal events, and people who become heavily invested in them inevitably become marginalized.

This is not just because we live in a materialistic society. Even in preliterate societies, the shamans and medicine women tend to be marginal social figures.

[Alex]

Michael,

Good points. It's interesting because these insights are ancient. For example, the early Buddhist sutras and Patanjali's Yoga sutra advise people to avoid these things.

[Urban Mystic Dee]

Anyone who blames entertainers (and I use that term loosely to include the people who produce modern day cookie-cutter remakes of movies from the '60s and unoriginal programming on TV)for children's bad behaviour doesn't know what they're talking about, whether they're dead or alive. They're just looking for a scapegoat for bad parenting. Instead of blaming everyone else people should start looking at the people whose job it is to make sure the kids behave properly. What should be a requirement, before us artists are censored, is that people should have to take a competance test before being allowed to have kids. It's not my job to raise other people's kids with my books; that's their responsibility.

[Satya]

The reason the ancients urged people to stay off these stuff is to avoid getting trapped by evil spirits or mischievious ones...

Its most lilkley there quite a lot of low level spirits who get their kicks by indulging folks like Veronica and being venerated...

The likes of Randi, Dawkins are most likely to join this group... imagine the havoc that is gonna create...

[Lucyjane]

I'd like to agree with Michael P. because if it wasn,t for him, the whole paranormal thing would just be up for grabs and usually profit to the suckers who beleive every word of phenonmenas that really cannot be disected by the human logic, only hinted at.

Lucy

[Greg L]

I was involved in several medium experiments with Gary Schwartz as a test sitter. I must say I found him and his staff to be extremely gracious and professional. He even went out of his way to test again with me upon hearing of a death in my family. Strangely enough, one of the tests "seemed" very evidential to me, but were claimed by another sitter!
Just goes to show you how rife with difficulty these experiments are.

I don't know what the falling out was about, but I hope that Schwartz is on the up and up.

[Alex]

"The reason the ancients urged people to stay off these stuff is to avoid getting trapped by evil spirits or mischievious ones..."

I guess this is the reason given by some ancient traditions, but not the ones I cite. If you read the classical sutras, they maintain that too much involvement in these areas can lead to major delusions. The New Age section in any bookstore seems to confirm these suspicions. In this field, the potential for nonsense is overwhelming and I think it's best to maintain some distance from it. I've met far too many people who get taken in by metaphysical excesses and end up losing their minds. If you don't believe me, then take a trip to the Whole Life Expo.

[Tony]

If those in the afterlife are really concerned about what some 'fraud' is saying about the afterlife, then it seems that they could/should do something to offer convincing proof about what the truth of the afterlife is.

It doesn't make sense, given that so many people over millenia have made claims about the nature of the afterlife, that Moses and Ramses would single out GS.

Sorry, can't buy it.

[Cyrus]

I've personally had dealings with some of Gary Schwartz' colleagues in the past. In my opinion, Schwartz is the most forward-thinking guy related to afterlife research. Some of his experiments have taken leaps and bounds in proving mediumship. Additionally, Schwartz and Montague were good friends. This stuff is all coming out of his widows mind.

The supernatural is its own greatest enemy. And I agree, somehow it does have a tendency to turn people mad. But, I think this is the challenge we have to face. There needs to be a serious movement AWAY from New Age and "Paranormal" culture (Bigfoot, Loch Ness, etc etc.) otherwise this will always remain in the dark ages.

[william]

"There needs to be a serious movement AWAY from New Age and "Paranormal" culture"

Not sure what you mean by paranormal culture but new age culture I did a “lot” of research on in the 90's and although they tend to have somewhat of a better understanding of what I believe is closer to realty I found that this new age culture can be as fixed on their beliefs and just as susceptible to new age dogma as traditional religion.

[william]

Michael

“Paranormal phenomena are marginal or liminal events, and people who become heavily invested in them inevitably become marginalized”

I think the case could be made that if we become too heavily invested in the paranormal we fail to be in this world. Maybe we not supposed to be of the world (materialism rules the day) but too much emphasis on the paranormal we lose sight of being in the world and lose opportunities to learn.

Had a friend in Australia and she could not pass a psychic without a reading and they told her pretty much what I suspect thought she wanted to hear. And then of course collected her money. There appeared to be a lot of psychics in malls.

“Even in preliterate societies, the shamans and medicine women tend to be marginal social figures.”

I could have sworn I posted this before but cannot find it now. Anyhow don’t understand shamans becoming marginal figures in their society. I thought they were the very one’s called when problems arise and instead of being marginal they were the center of society.

Would a Gary Swartz or a Dean Radin of IONS be considered marginal figures? Dean Radin stated he took up research into the paranormal because of the great challenge involved. Swartz had a girlfriend that wondered if her father survived death.

[joki]

In my opinion this most problem of mediumship research is to find the limits of the subconsciousness. It is very hard to find a good experimental setup, which can absolutely rule out cold reading techniques. I have here in Germany some mental magican, for a non magician it is absolute fascinating, what are able to read from person face or behaviour, even without eyes. The published recently studies from G.S. (2007) have an improved study design, but the did not absolutely rule out cold reading.The mediums were given the first names of the discarnates. First names are not uniformly distributed across years, and the first name could give some clue to the age of the person. What do famous mental magicians, who are open minded, think about the informations gained by genuine mediums?

[Leo]

I was watching bs pen and teller show usually I would not listen to closed-minded skeptics about issues of our world however I always like to see what there answer is. There were talking about funerals and how much money they cost they were right about Albert Einstein equation e equals mc square how energy can be created but not destroyed but that has nothing to do with our energy.

[joki]

I am sorry for the writing mistakes due to failure of my computer.

[Michael Prescott]

>don’t understand shamans becoming marginal figures in their society.

Hansen's book goes into detail on this. Shamans certainly do serve an important social function, but at the same time they are outside the norms of their society. They may engage in ordinarily unacceptable behavior like crossdressing, homosexuality, or copraphilia. Initiates into shamanism may be selected from social outcasts like epileptics, the handicapped, or the deformed.

>What do famous mental magicians, who are open minded, think about the informations gained by genuine mediums?

Well, since we're speaking of George Hansen, here's his overview on the subject of magicians and psi.

[Cyrus]

William wrote
"Not sure what you mean by paranormal culture"

The way a topic like near death experiences may be featured on the same radio show, web-site, TV program or book which also seriously discusses subjects like the Yeti, reptilian aliens, "orbs" in photographs (read: dust-particles) and the ever stubborn to kill Loch Ness monster, which was debunked years ago.

Society will never take survival research seriously so long as it remains a subject mixed in with the believe-anything paranormal crowd. I was explaining how I think people need to distance themselves from such a damaging community.

[MickeyD]

It's not quite as straightforward as it looks. Those names were given unprompted by two different mediums in the same week, not just Veronica herself. It could be telepathy, mischievous spirits etc. but there is definitely some sort of paranormality involved. It might not have been too wise posting it on the website though.....

[TomC]

hey all,
MOntague Keen's site had a new message talking about feb 22nd. however, i dont find the answer convincing- and that the answer is rather retro-fitted.

oh i would like to believe these words, but the critical side of me just find it too convenient.

'the dishonest one must be silenced first...'

what do we know, really?

[MickeyD]

Again that Feb 22nd prediction was made independently by 3 unconnected sources in different countries - that's why it was posted on the website with such flare and confidence. That explanation posted yesterday was given shortly after Feb 22nd and was not dreamed up in response to this blog.

[Michael Prescott]

Mickey D wrote,

>That explanation posted yesterday was given shortly after Feb 22nd and was not dreamed up in response to this blog.

The Sept. 2 message itself, though, does seem to be a reaction to my post. Some excerpts:

>It surprises you when you hear of people who say they read our website and see only what they wish to see because they refuse to accept that which does not fit in with their lifestyle etc.

What nonsense this is. "Because it does not fit in with their lifestyle." How about, because it is patently inane?

>You stated many times you do not put our scientific projects on the website for obvious reasons.

If the level of science in these projects is indicated by the claim that nuclear testing has knocked the earth off balance and caused global warming, then I can indeed see "obvious reasons" for not posting this info. In any case, you can't refuse to publish your data and then complain when people say there are no data.

>They refer to the 22nd Feb. and say nothing happened, well, we know different, and you wrote a little about it and they failed completely to grasp it. As you know we had to remove several layers between the Spirit World and the Earth and the final one was removed on the 22nd Feb., consequently the Spiritworld has never been closer to Earth ever in the history of Man.

I hereby predict that on Sept. 4, 2007, the cosmic forces will be aligned more perfectly than ever before. Prove me wrong.

Anyone can make "predictions" of this sort.

The same message begins with this material:

>I watched you look at your calendar and note it was the 1st of September and you said out loud, "Monty it is the 1st of Sept, what have you got in store for me?" You went to the study to look at your emails and you were SPEECHLESS!!! There was information there you could never ever have dreamed of and yes I observed your gratitude and delight.

All of which would be evidential if it were coming through a medium. But remember, Veronica Keen is writing these messages herself. And it does not take psi abilities to write down what you did yesterday.

MickeyD also wrote,

>that Feb 22nd prediction was made independently by 3 unconnected sources in different countries

How do we know these sources are unconnected? In an age of email and long-distance phone calls, it matters not at all if they are located in different countries. M. Lamar Keene, in The Psychic Mafia, claimed that phony psychics share info about clients with each other all the time. What precautions, if any, have been taken to prevent fraud in this case?

[Darryn]

Oh Michael you hardnosed skeptic you!

I've been following these messages for months now and my going theory is subconscious invention on Veronica's part too. Anyway if we're wrong it's going to be delightful, since Spirit are promising week after week that salvation is just around the corner. I must say I do rather wonder why all those dead people had to wait for Montague to join them before they could get started saving the world.

[Cyrus]

Veronica Keen wrote:

"As you know we had to remove several layers between the Spirit World and the Earth and the final one was removed on the 22nd Feb."

Now even the metaphysical part is becoming nonsense.

If there are layers between dimensions, like an onion (something I've read a lot of literature regards) then it's not something you "remove" pieces of because they're fundamental parts of the universe. I'm sure even our buddy "William" from the Circle of the Silver Cord would agree on this.

It would be like saying: "I just cut out a piece of the sky to bring us closer to the moon." Considering what a bumbling plan this is, I wonder if Cobra Commander is the guy in charge of the twelve?

Of course, I don't know anything (nobody does) about this, but logically it just seems really hokey.