Free plug

Marcel Cairo's Internet radio show offers an interesting lineup tonight:

Two 80 something year old men. One an ex-medium, the other an ex-atheist. Now the medium says it was all the work of Satan, and the atheist is praising God and channeling the dead.

Showtime is 7 PM Eastern Time (4 PM Pacific). Click here to listen.

Comments

[Tim]

Man, that's got dustup potential! In this corner, wearing the red trunks with the 666 emblem, at 176 pounds...

[Matthew C]

Looks like I will be the guest on the 10th.

I'll post more on my blog as the time gets nearer. . .

[Michael Prescott]

Congratulations, Matthew!

[Eteponge]

First off, what the Christian Guy in the program said stating that the spirits of the dead who communicate with us are demons "accourding to the Bible", that is totally incorrect.

In the Old Testament, Samuel came back from the dead as a ghost summoned by a medium, and the Scripture even states that it was actually *Samuel Himself* that came back as this ghost and therefore it wasn't a demon. He even prophecised Saul's destruction, and told him that the next day, he and his sons would be with him in the Afterlife. That right there OBJECTIVELY proves from The Bible that Spirits of the Dead can be contacted and are who they say they are.

Old Testament Law specifically spoke against contacting the actual spirits of the actual dead, stating right there in the Law that it is possible, it did not say that these Spirits are "demons" or any such hogwash like that. That's something that Christians like to make up and pull completely from nowhere. The incident with the Prophet Samuel objectively proves accourding to Scripture that it's possible. Old Testament Law such as that was ONLY IN EFFECT for the Jewish People, and ONLY IN THE LAND that God had brought them, Gentiles who converted to Judaism had to follow a SEPERATE set of Laws.

The Law specifically states that this practice is only banned in the land that God had brought them, to make them different from the other pagan nations that did such things.

Why was this Law put into effect? Quite simply, because The God of Israel wanted his people looking TO HIM for guidence, not the dead, who, if wicked in life (or earthbound and negetive), could lead people astray. That's the true context. "Why contact the dead when you can directly commune with God as a Mystic? The dead are just the same as you, they've just shed their flesh!" Seems to be the true reasoning.

Regardless, if you accept that Jesus Christ fulfilled and erased the Old Law, then that restriction no longer exists at all. Which would jive with the "Testing the Spirits" gift being added in the New Testament.

One major thing also, is that Jesus Christ spoke with the deceased Spirit of Moses and also spoke with Elijah in Spirit Form while on the Mountain of Transfiguration and the Apostles witnessed it.

Of course, perhaps the biggest event is where Jesus Christ Himself said...

"Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." (Luke 24:36-43)

This was after the Apostles exclaimed that they thought Jesus Christ was a Ghost returned from the dead, as in a Wandering Spirit. Jesus Christ Himself said, "a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have", admitting that Ghosts as in Spirits of the Dead that do not have flesh and bones that wander the earth do exist.

The other verses in the Old Testament attacking mediums and attacking mediumship rely on bad faulty translations. I've seen a large chart somewhere online that has the original hebrew words and meanings in those verses, and they were very different in meaning and context than what Biased English Translations say, that such Biased Christians cherry pick from to attack stuff like this.

Also, his quote of "the dead know nothing", is a verse that is always taken out of context from Ecclesiastes, which was a book written by a Man in Torments looking at the world through a dreary tortured atheistic nilhistic perspective "All is meaningless, all is meaningless" Ecclesiastes says over and over, which encompasses the whole dreary context of the Scripture. The phrase "under the sun" is used many times showing how he sees the world through man's atheistic view apart from God's view. He is unknowing and uncaring and unconcerned about the state of the dead, for he states, "Who knows if the life-breath of the children of men goes upward..." That is probably the most out-of-context quoted Scripture in existence.

Someone on BeliefNet long ago posted the following information which I saved, and I quote...

[Begin Quotes]

At death, man becomes a rephaim, i.e., "ghost," "shade," or "disembodied spirit," according to Job 26:5; Ps.88:10; Prov.2:18; 9:18, 21:16; Isa.14:9; 26:14, 19. Instead of describing man as passing into nonexistance, the Old Testament states that man becomes a disembodied spirit. The usage of the word "rephaim" irrefutably establishes this truth. Langenscheidt's Hebrew-English Dictionary to the Old Testament (p.324) defines refaim as referring to the "departed spirits, shades." Brown Driver and Briggs (p.952) define rephaim as "shades, ghosts...name of dead in Sheol."

It is a Hebrew fact that "rephaim" (ghost) means a disembodied spirit.

[End Quotes]

Lastely, he was quoting a random verse from The Bible that suggests the world is round, talking about how it "proves" that The Bible is scientific.

What he doesn't seem to realize, is that the Hindu Scriptures state the exact same thing, as does The Quran, and both the Hindu Scriptures and The Quran contain many additional verses that their adherents constantly quote as "unknowable scientific knowledge" to prove they are authentic. The Hindu Scriptures mention that the universe is billions of years old, and mentions evolution, accourding to Hindus, and The Quran even mentions The Big Bang, accourding to Muslims. So, if this guy is saying The Bible contains "unknowable scientific knowledge" for it's time, he's gonna have to accept those in The Hindu Scriptures and The Quran as authentic too.

Regardless, it's also obvious that he was cherry picking the few times The Bible "got it right" in regards to scientific things, and is flat out ignoring the many times it got such stuff laughably wrong or obviously goofed.

By the way, just to throw this out there...

2 Corinthians 12:1-4 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know - God knows. And I know that this person - whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that humans are not permitted to tell.

[Near Death Experiance / Out Of Body Experiance in The Bible]

[Marcel Cairo]

Great response eteponge.

Michael, if you're ever not in the mood to write a new post, I would suggest you might repost eteponge's comments above. I would love to see what people have to say about traditional religion and the afterlife. I have a few biblical quotes I could toss into the pot as well.

I didn't want to start arguing the Bible with Ben Alexander as it would have been pointless. I just thought it interesting that he had such a negative experience with spirit and mediumship.

BTW, did anyone ever hear of the materialization medium he was referring to?

[Eteponge]

Another thing I'd like to point out in regards to Jesus Christ speaking with the deceased Spirit of Moses and also speaking with Elijah in Spirit Form while on the Mountain of Transfiguration and the Apostles witnessing it...

Accourding to The Bible, Jesus Christ was sinless. Accourding to The Bible, He committed no sin during his lifetime. Therefore, His obvious communicating with the deceased Spirit of Moses and also with the Spirit Form of Elijah on the Mountain of Transfiguration, proves that communication with the dead is not a sin in the context of the New Testament. He even let the Apostles witness this, and they even suggested to Jesus that they build tents for them to dwell in to stay with them!

Saul's sin in the context of the deceased Prophet Samuel's being angry with him when he was summoned as a ghost and contacted via a medium, was not directly because he was contacting the dead, but because Saul himself was directly pacted with God and had full potential to contact and communicate with God directly and to rely solely on Him, but he had turned his back on God and towards sin, and the last straw was that he was turning to the deceased Samuel to tell him what he already knew, rather than turning to God Himself, and so the deceased Samuel prophecised his destruction, and told him that the next day, he and his children would be with him in the Afterlife.

Also, something I read somewhere online in refering to that incident that I found interesting (I forget the source, I merely saved it in my notes), and I quote...

"This medium, whom Saul used, also saw many people on the other side, when she was calling up Samuel. One should also note in this verse, that Samuel had maintained his form of an old man wearing a mantel, just like many documented ghost sightings of apparitions, report the ghost to be dressed in "period dress" from their own time era, here on earth."

[Varenius]

I was disappointed that there wasn't more discussion about determining the trustworthiness of spirits. How do we know they are who they claim to be? How do we determine their intentions? Even Spirtualism agrees that there are low spirits who can mislead us. And some time back Michael mentioned a book (Hungry Ghosts, I think) describing a cunning, malevolent spirit that wreaked havoc on the author's life. How do we deal with such possibilities?

Similarly, how much can we trust a spirit's knowledge? There's often an assumption (by myself included) that the departed have greatly expanded perception, and that their knowledge of the afterlife and universe is accurate. But what if this isn't so?

These questions are quite intriguing to me, so I would like to have heard more about Ben's negative experiences, and why Noah is so certain the spirit is his wife.