« Random thoughts on a senseless act | Main | The unskeptical skeptic »

Comments

What about Cho's post-massacre suicide tho, one might argue he was lucid enough to know he'd get life or the chair for what he'd just done so he took the easy way out.

I mean, if he'd kept going and had been taken down by the cops DURING his rampage then I'd find the insanity angle more plausible, but the way he ended it, his MO was pretty much identical to other ramapge-shootings, where the perps were otherwise "sane" - they calmly murder a group of innocents and then, at the very end, kill themselves, obviously to avoid arrest and trial and sentencing.

Yes lets continue to make guns easily available to these types of people. I suspect but don’t know that the world is full of such people. The rest of the world looks in disbelief that guns are so available to criminals and mentality ill people like this young man in the United States.

I suspect that we have only seen the beginning of these types of mass killings. Wait until the refugees start coming from Iraq when their civil war goes full swing. It will be called by these young jihads: getting even. Hope I am wrong but I did predict “unfortunately” the civil war in Iraq before we invaded.

It was an uncomplicated prediction, except apparently for Congress and Bush, with a religious tribal mentality alive and well in Iraq.

These types of people do not kill themselves just to avoid trial or the electric chair. They become so organized in planning the event that they simply don't think about the consequences. They realize that they are going to die anyway because honestly, who would think otherwise. They figure if they are going to end their life, then they will murder as many as they can. Their intentions are to cause the most mass destruction. I do not think there was a way for them to realize this would happen because everyone knows at least someone who was very weird and depressed.

In reading the posts I could see there is some debate as to Cho's mental illness and his mental state at the time of the killing, which are not necessarily one in the same. In fact due to the paranoid aspects of Cho's schizophrenia, his paranoia could have actually made him more aware and methodical in carrying out the attacks. An opinion on Cho's mental status, as provided by Dr. Welner, I think best explains this in further detail.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/VATech/story?id=3050483&page=1

I've held that Cho was a lot like the other narcissistic shooters, Klebold and Harris, the guy who shot the Amish children, etc. But you make a strong argument, so now I'm going to suspend judgment. (I know the world has been waiting for this moment.)

I was just listening to MSNBC, and for the first time I heard the FBI profiler, Clint Van Zandt, mention paranoid schizophrenia in relation to Cho.

No matter what, there were plenty of warning signs. Stalking young women, setting fire to his dorm--and it seems little, if anything, was done. Somewhere along the line somebody should have kept closer watch on him. Maybe it was the meds, or how he used them, or didn't use them.

Let's hope we can learn from this.

Stay tuned.

I would argue that if we're not going to ban guns for private citizens in this country, we should do the next best thing: enact a law mandating a rigorous psychological profiling process before an individual can buy a gun. This would be time consuming and costly, with psychological screening required by a competent psychologist or psychiatrist. But if the law were written in such a way where if the mental health professional harbored "reasonable doubt" about the applicant's mental or emotional stability, the gun purchase would be denied, that would take guns out of the hands of psychotics like this kid, who got his weapons through normal channels.

regarding to Time's comment:

longer turnaround time and the cost of psych profiling will send ARA and gun lobbyists jumping up and down because 1. people will be less motivated to buy firearm out of cost and laziness, and 2. the longer turnaround time also mean less selling guns per day- affecting the gunmakers' sell quota. WE just can't let that happen, can we?

no doubt they'll bring up their constitutional right- it sure didnt state that crazy people can't own guns, did it? and of course, the high cost of psych profiling will only mean that only RICH people can afford to buy firearms, then that woudlnt be fair to the lower and middle class people (to whom they claim that they proudly represent), wouldnt it?

i agree with your points 100%, tim, but what are the odds that these rules be enforced upon with all these gun lobbyists running around?

MSNBC is reporting that Cho sent a package of written material and video files to NBC after the first shooting and before the second one (the rampage). So far the contents of this package have been described only vaguely. I think that when further details come out, we'll know a lot more about Cho's state of mind.

I'm not married to the paranoid schizophrenic hypothesis, and I'm certainly no expert, but Cho's behavior and one-act plays seem indicative of schizophrenia to me. On the other hand, a doctor who interviewed Cho found that his "insight and judgment are normal." (See above link.)

Also, check out the link provided by Brian in his comment. Dr. Welner's analysis (especially on p. 4) may provide a way to reconcile Cho's disorganized, unfocused behavior prior to the crimes with his organized, focused behavior during the crimes.

You are asking a lot of fellow students, busy teachers, and neighbors to recognize Cho's illness and then attempt to get someone to act on it. One teacher apparently did try to get him referred for counseling, but there was nothing anyone could do force him to go. Until someone actually does something that proves he is a danger, it is impossible to act. (This is the result as much from so-called political correctness as it is libertarian thinking.)

Realistically, there is only one party that could have recognized his illness and done something: his family. (Ironically, it is usually the family members who are the victims when this type of person explodes.) In addition to the obvious reluctance of a parent to recognize that his or her child is mentally ill, you have to ask what resources are there for dealing with it? Can you go to the police and say, "I think my son is dangerous? Who do you have to help me?" I don't know.

Finally, I remember thinking after Columbine that if they had arrested those kids in the parking lot as they pulled up to school with their guns and bombs, most of us on some level would have still wondered if they really could have carried it out. Acts like Cho's are so extraordinary that they are nearly impossible to imagine before hand. Saying that people should have recognized it before the fact and gotten him help (or made him harmless) is asking...well, I'm not sure what it's asking. But it is hard to imagine how many otherwise harmless mentally ill people would need to suffer incarceration or enforced treatment in order to prevent something no one could realistically have predicted.

Anybody heard from Cho'd parents? You'd think they'd release a statement saying, Hey, we're sorry. But they've probably lawyered up bigtime.

I read somewhere - can't remember where - that Cho's parents have suffered a nervous collapse and are hospitalized.

Two friends of mind are South Korean and the first thing they asked me was what I thought about this shooting. They were worried about this man's actions creating a bias against them. They have been model citizens with two children one a MBA and the other a surgeon. I think for the Asian culture this is a very shameful thing to happen. I suspect his parents are suffering beyond what we can imagine.

We know so little about mental illness. It appears that the more we focus on personal self the more out of touch with reality we become. I think Cho’s mental pain was beyond our comprehension, calling him evil allows us to deflect our own, and our societies need to change. As Dennis miller on fox said today it takes longer to get a cup of Starbucks coffee than to buy a gun in Virginia.

(A) mentality ill people + (B) easy access to guns = (C) lots of bloodshed.

I would love for David Thompson to contact the founders of our constitution and hear from them how they feel the second amendment is being interpreted. Are spirits available on demand?

>As Dennis miller on fox said today

I saw Miller on The O'Reilly Factor and thought his comments were excellent. I just wish O'Reilly had shut his yap so Miller could have had more airtime.

Perusing a generally angry comments thread on Ace of Spades (prompted by Ace's dissing of a 16-year-old girl who has organized a Web-based effort to show forgiveness to the killer), I came across a couple of uplifting posts that shone like a candle in the dark. Both were left by someone named Greg Griffith.

In the first post, Greg quotes from the Sermon the Mount:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

In the second, he writes:

"It's not about being more enlightened, or even about being non-judgmental. For Christians, it is about remembering - difficult as it is during times like these - that Cho, perpetrator of horrendous evil though he was, is a child of God, made in His image, and that Christ died for his sins just as he did for mine and yours.

"Forgiveness is not forgetting, nor is it a declaration of innocence. Remember, as you hear Christians who extend forgiveness to Cho, that it is what Christ commands us to do. Remember the example of the Amish from their school shooting."

And he quotes from the Anglican burial service, which concludes:

>Help us, we pray, in the midst of things we cannot understand, to believe and trust in the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, and the resurrection to life everlasting.

>Amen.

I think the line "in the midst of things we cannot understand" is especially meaningful here.

Could the massacre that took place at Virgina Tech Monday morning be the result of a life-long speech impediment -- and the ridicule of classmates?

Read the linked blog for evidence and my hypothesis!
http://newzreviews.blogspot.com/

We may want to stick our heads in the sand because the images and what they represent offend our sensibilities. I understand that many are in excruciating pain from the loss of loved ones and cannot bear the thought of looking at the person who inflicted this heartache. On the surface this appears to be a clear case of a mentally disturbed individual venting his rage on innocent lives and therefore, our habit is to dismiss it in our minds as an abnormality, a deviation from the norm, but in actuality this is indicative of a very complex phenomenon exemplifying the direction we are going in as a country and ultimately, a species. Our modern culture has seen an over abundance of violent TV shows & movies, violent lyrics in music, cruel and angry reality shows, portrayal of mean-ness as the ultimate form of entertainment. There is a preoccupation with body image, physical appearance, money and so on... look at us, we worship the likes of Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan whose lives are a series of partying, drugs and sex.... Our children are excessively exposed to these themes, images and messages at a very young age. Psychology 101: Children live what they learn. When the predominance of the information children receive from society is of this nature, it then becomes their sense of reality. They believe that these are the things that constitute our experience and existence as human beings…. where is the over abundance of images depicting love, compassion, kindness? We are creating a generation of superficial, plastic, selfish people where the great search in life is about excess and trying to appease an inexhaustible craving for physical pleasure. Our greatest error is thinking that each thing is separate unto itself. For every action there is a reaction and everything is connected, so we are sadly misguided in thinking that what we portray in the name of entertainment does not have a tremendous impact on our children's psyche and present the foundation of their beliefs..... There is no one thing that causes an individual to reach breaking point, instead it is the culmination of everything he has ever experienced in his life and the impressions left upon his psyche, lest we forget all those children who endure physical, sexual, mental and emotional abuse. These experiences are assimilated and ultimately create a toxic fusion of energies and emotions. Children today are feeling more alienated and dis-jointed than ever, as parents are caught up in the "fight for survival" spending more time and energy at work ultimately leaving less and less time for raising their children in a balanced and harmonious manner. Whilst in the mind of the parent what they are doing is in the best interest of the child as they can provide more material things.... the truth is, a child would much rather a sincere hug and the attention of a parent than the latest barby doll or video game.... Do you not think that the 4-6 hours they spend playing bloody video games or watching television shows that depict screaming, cruel and out of control people are laying the foundation of their belief system? Needless to say, the horse is already out the gate and it will take awareness from the majority to recognize it is heading in the wrong direction. I pray that we wake up before many more are unnecessarily slaughtered by these mostly affected minds who in the midst of their darkness, are screaming for us to heed the call....

-disorganized incoherent rambling - check
-confabulation of ideas - check
-neologisms - check
-long history of bizarre ideation - check
-intense anger without facial expression of emotion - check (flat affect)
-social withdrawal - check

possibility of premediation and "intelligence" within a psychotic break? - check

end of story. Paris is excused.

[insert discussion of individual vs. societal rights and freedoms here]

The comments to this entry are closed.