Letter to a Christian Web site

Although I respect and admire Christianity and have read quite a lot about it -- in fact, at the moment I'm reading Mika Waltari's historical novel The Secret of the Kingdom, about the days following Jesus' crucifixion -- I'm occasionally reminded of the vast gulf that separates me from this religion.

Today I got another such reminder when I looked in on a Christian apologetics Web site that I occasionally visit. The proprietor, bringing us up to speed on current events, has this to say about the polemical atheist Sam Harris:

I had in mind to do a response to Letter to a Christian Nation in print, but with Sam Harris now coming out as a believer in reincarnation and psychic phenomena, I'm not sure we need to do more than let him self-destruct as a spokesman for "reason".

So apparently anyone who "comes out" as believing in reincarnation and psi is in the process of self-destructing, at least as far as reason is concerned. This from a Web site that devotes most of its energies to proving that Jesus performed miracles and exorcisms and rose from the dead!

It's not terribly surprising that a Christian Web site would reject reincarnation, even though there is considerable evidence for it (and if you doubt it, read Jim Tucker's new book Life Before Life). The fact that the Bible does not endorse reincarnation is presumably reason enough for the believing Christian to reject it.

But the situation with psychic phenomena is quite different. Numerous examples of what can only be called psi phenomena are scattered throughout both the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. St. Paul famously enumerates the various gifts enjoyed by members of his congregation*, including prophecy and speaking in tongues -- which today we would call channeling or mediumship. When the apostles experience a revelation on Pentecost, we're told that tongues of fire whirled around the room -- sounding much like the spirit lights seen in many modern séances (Acts 2:2). The first letter of John advises us to "test the spirits"  (1 John 4:1).

But there's no need to continue. Entire books have been written interpreting the Judeo-Christian tradition in terms of psi. One of them, Spiritualism in the Old Testament, is available online.

It's amazing that people who are open to the reality of miracles and the spirit world can remain closed off to modern evidence that would only support their worldview. As far as I'm concerned, Sam Harris deserves credit for being open-minded enough, despite his atheistic belief system, to at least consider the possibility of paranormal events and life after death.

---

*"Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues." 1 Corinthians 12:7-10 NIV

Comments

[Eteponge]

So, accepting actual real life solid evidence in favor of Reincarnation and Psi Phenomenon means you are "without reason" accourding to these perticular Christians, but blindly accepting all of the clear fairy-tale like events that are clearly ancient Hebrew Mythology in the Bible, along with clear supernatural, paranormal, and miraculous events scattered all over the Bible, without question, those are all "a okay" and perfectly "logical and reasonable" to blindly accept without any sort of evidence whatsoever, but oh, things with actual real life evidence that conflict with their personal subjective beliefs are not. *Mind-Boggle*

"Why don't you accept Reincarnation? There's ton of evidence in favor of it."

"Because a 2000 year old book about talking snakes told me not to! Reincarnation is a lie, because the Bible said so! It also says it's okay to take slaves and to murder people who eat pork and that bats are really birds and that giants that were half-man half-angel once walked the earth and that a boat carried all of animal kind, all species, in a universal flood, but it's all true, and it's all God's word! And that's perfectly logical! Your stuff is illogical! The earth was created in only six days, and the earth is the center of the universe, and the earth is flat, it's all in the Bible. Therefore evolution is false, because the Bible told me so!"

"..."

NOTE: Doesn't speak for all Christians. Mainly Fundamentalist Literalists.

Note To Fundie Christian Literalists: Interpret Scripture Symbolically and Spiritually when it obviously calls for it, and understand it in the time and context in which it was written, and understand that it was written by many different HUMAN authors, or you will look like a fool. And don't attack real life evidence in favor of Phenomenon that you personally disagree with based on your personal subjective beliefs and a personal subjective reading of Scripture and adherance to a perticular viewpoint of what "Christian Tradition" says regarding the issue. Let truth be free, even if it disagrees with you.

[Michael Prescott]

I don't want to get into Christian-bashing; there's enough of that on the Web (and elsewhere). I just think the Christian position would be strengthened by the acceptance of psi phenomena. The Catholic Church seems to agree; they appear to be favorably disposed toward various forms of spirit communication. Some of the more conservative Protestant denominations take a different position, and I think this is a mistake on their part.

[Eteponge]

I wasn't "Christian-Bashing" I was merely pointing out that the Bible says a lot of really weird and bizzare, inaccurate, and contradictory things, so to refuse to accept Reincarnation on the sole basis that the "Bible says it's not true" (a very contested view regardless), is not a very strong position. I also encouraged a more Symbolic & Spiritual reading of Christian Scripture than Literal, which seems pretty logical to me to point out.

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

Take one quick glance at my MySpace Profile (essentially my only corner of webspace) and you will see it's filled with quotes from Christian Scripture and Images of Christ and that I have many Christian Friends on my Friends List, so I'm definately not bashing Christianity itself, merely Scriptural Literalists. That's my point, not to accept book over facts. Reinterpret if you have to.

[Michael Prescott]

>I wasn't "Christian-Bashing"

Sorry if I misinterpreted. It seemed a little harsh to me, but maybe that's just the way I read it. Anyway, I agree that empirical evidence should take precedence over any sacred text. People interpret spiritual truths according to their state of knowledge at the time, and the state of knowledge in A.D. 60 was much different than it is today.

[Eteponge]

I apologize that I came across as harsh Michael. I'll think much more clearly next time I post. I've gotten into several indepth debates with Christians today on another forum, and they were the, "only we are right and only we have authentic spiritual/miraculous experiences", types of Christians, and that was the topic of the debate. And I haven't slept in over 24 hours, so, that's a bad combination. But I loved your current blog post and I wanted to comment, but, again, my apologies for coming across as harsh.

I need to be far more tolerant and less harsh. I have no room to judge other people and their attachments to Scriptures.

[william]

Speaking of psi and spirit communication my wife was with her brother Saturday (march 4th), as he lay in his hospital bed terminally ill. Before she left our home to visit her brother I asked her if she would ask him if he sees anyone in the room with him if he starts to look away from her to other empty areas of the room. My wife and her sister were with him all day on Friday and he was fighting hard for his life. On sat morning he was still not willing to give up his life but sat afternoon he started looking away from his sisters to the other side of the room that was empty except for two bed cushions.

My wife asked whom do you see? When she asked do you see our dad who had died ten years earlier he did not respond but a large bed cushion that had been placed up against the wall at an angle actually moved forward off the wall (not slide down the wall but moved forward off the wall as if someone pushed it). This scared my wife and her sister but her brother kept looking in that direction so she asked again; do you see dad? The cushion that had been placed next to the other one that had flew off the wall then this second cushion flew off the wall. This upset my wife and her sister so much that they left the room for a short time.

When they returned he had just died. Keep in mind the day before he did not want to leave his body but after looking to that empty side of the room and my wife asking him if he saw his dad in the room he died a short time later. One last note. My wife’s brother died ten years to the day after his father died. Coincidence maybe surely the ultra skeptics will call this chance and hallucination but my research indicates that these types of deathbed phenomena appear to be common stories. The difference for me is that this time it happened to my immediate family.

I apologize to your readers if this was not the right place to insert this comment but this has been on my mind and wanted to write about it and share this story with others.

[Jess]

I have admit, I feel bad for Sam Harris. Although I am not sure if he outright believes in psi and reincarnation, he is pretty much stating that he cannot disregard the information out of hand. This seems to me to be a very refreshing comment that should not accept anyone claiming to be interested in reason. After the seemingly misleading alternet article and his response, which both can be found here, http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/controversies/Gorenfeld_Harris.htm
it seems as though just mentioning psi will bring down negative recations from most camps. Here is a link on JREF where he is discussed negatively. http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-09/092206bad.html
This is the same same group of people that put Harris up on their shoulders before this this began. Who would have ever thought that the Christian Apologetics and pseudo-skeptics would have a common target?
Thank you for the original post by the way.

[Ulysses]

Michael,
I understand your “vast gulf of separation” with ‘mainstream’ Christianity in America since sometimes I feel the same way, but please note that there are other Christians that accept reincarnation and psychic phenomena as their main tenets. I am referring to Spiritist Christians based on the philosophy of Allan Kardec, which is very popular in Brazil and other countries. Also, please note that the “fact that the Bible does not endorse reincarnation” is not quite so. Moreover, a case can be made that reincarnation is found in the Bible, specifically the teaching of reincarnation can be found in the words of Jesus himself. For more information please take a look at:
http://www.spiritandscience.org/Reincarnation.htm

[Michael Prescott]

William,

Thanks very much for sharing your story. I have read of a few similar incidents in the book Hello from Heaven, by Bill and Judy Guggenheim. Despite the sappy title, this is a worthwhile book about deathbed visions, including a few cases where objects in the hospital room moved or broke for no apparent reason.

My sympathies to your wife and her family, and to you also, of course.

[Eteponge]

"Hello from Heaven", I've heard of that book, I should check it out, I have an interest in ADCs. I've experienced an After Death Communication before myself, I don't recall whether or not if I've ever shared it with any of you before...

When I was a young teenager, I was awoken out of a sound sleep one night, and I sensed/felt a prescense in my bed right next to me, and I looked over, and I saw my great uncle (my grandmother's brother) lying down beside me, staring at me with an emotionless look in his eyes. I instinctively knew that he had just died, and that he was saying farewell to me. I found this odd, because I had only met the man once or twice in my life, both times in a nursing home, so I had a "why me?" thought running through my head. I then rolled over and went back to sleep. I awoke the next morning and the phone rang, I already knew what it was about, my grandmother then informed the family that our great uncle had died unexpectedly during the night.

[Markus Hesse]

Wasn't John the Baptist supposed to be the reincarnation of Elijah or something?

[Michael Prescott]

Eteponge,

Thanks very much for your story. Many such accounts are included in the classic book Human Personality and Its Survival of Bodily Death, by F.W.H. Myers. But I haven't heard from many people who experienced something like that.

Markus,

Apparently some people thought Elijah had returned to earth as John the Baptist. But this was not necessarily indicative of a belief in reincarnation, because Elijah was said to have never died in the conventional sense. The story was that he was taken bodily up to heaven. So his possible reappearance would have been seen as a return, but not a rebirth.

The other item in the New Testament sometimes seen as evidence of belief in reincarnation is a question asked of Jesus by his disciples: Was a certain man born blind because of his own sins or the sins of his parents? Some people say that this implies the idea of a previous life in which the man had sinned. But Jews of that period apparently believed it was possible for the unborn child to sin in the womb (don't ask me how), so the question may simply have reflected this belief.

I don't personally think reincarnation was part of the worldview of devout Jews in the era when the Hebrew Bible or the NT was written. The Hebrew Bible shows little interest in any form of life after death, and the NT speaks of eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

[Diana Flanary]

MP, I have long held the same opinion about Christianity that you have just stated.
Christians can be very biased, and very closeminded . I agree with you wholeheartedly...later, Diana

[Michael Prescott]

Anyone who's personally invested in a belief system can become biased and closed-minded. Of course, this applies to those of us who believe in psi, as well!

[Adam]

Hi Michael

The Tanakh is heavily against spirit communication for some obvious political reasons - big chunks are devoted to polemics against necromancers and spiritists who bypass the fortune-telling racket of the priests. The Urim and Thummim were not weird spectacles (aka Mormon belief) but drop-sticks much like the I'Ching, and used by the established priesthood to skein the future for all enquirers. Plus there was a lively trade in prophecy where a prophet would speak for Yahweh (for a suitable stipend - they were apparently kept on a retainer by the royalty.)

In the Xian Bible the Temple has been replaced by the presence of the Spirit(s) in all Believers, but to ensure the spirits were from God they had to be tested. 1 John enforces an early version of the Creed on the spirits - that Jesus had come in the flesh and wasn't just a phantasm. Whether "John" meant a fleshly JC during his life, or afterwards isn't spelt out - I suspect the latter as the fleshly Risen Christ is most explicitly taught in John's Gospel.

1 John is the only early Xian text to make such a credal statement the gold standard of spirit communications. The Didache, a very early text that is much forgotten, merely requires that wannabe prophets don't ask for money or food for themselves while "in the Spirit" and warns that on other matters one shouldn't commit the sin of calling a Holy spirit a demon.

Ben Swett is an interesting example of Spiritualist Xian who has years of experience with spirit rescue and the like - his material can be found online at...

http://bswett.com/spirit.html

...I'm not saying I endorse everything he says as I am still very wary of spiritual communications - too many "hungry ghosts" in the astral realms for my liking - but his material gives a different take on Xianity and spiritism.

In all this there was a lot of politics behind the anti-spiritism rhetoric of the Tanakh. Vying priesthoods argued over the right or wrong place to sacrifice to Yahweh, for example, or the right or wrong sacrifices etc. That mediums and astrologers got thrown out by their politicking is more an accident of history than divine condemnation.

[Marcel Cairo]

William, thank you for sharing your story. I hope your wife and sister-in-law are able to see past the grief just enough to see the beauty in their brother's reunion with their father. It's not easy to do, but there is something comforting in knowing that the here and ther hereafter are actually right next to each other in the same space.

[David Byers]

I agree Michael, these people go through the "The Bible is true because the Bible says it is true" argument.

Below is something I found on the net some time ago about reincarnation (hope the person who originally posted it does not mind). It shows how there is another way to look at this issue:

[Because I didn't want to repost such a long excerpt from someone else's blog, I've removed the pasted-in comments. To read the post, go to http://metgat.zaadz.com/blog and scroll down to "The Inside Scoop on Reincarnation." - MP]

[David Byers]

Thanks Michael

[Eteponge]

Well, Christian Scripture states that John came in the SPIRIT (Breath) and Power of Elijah. That Elijah was taken up bodily into Heaven doesn't have to be literal, and even if it was, it doesn't mean he couldn't have died and discarded the body to be reborn as John.

Also, John said that he was not Elijah when he was asked (people generally do not recall their past lives), yet Jesus Christ clearly stated that he was, when he was asked. "He is Elijah who was to come." "Then the disciples realized he was speaking of John the Baptist."

Also, from what I personally have researched, and asked of Jewish friends of mine who are very familiar with Jewish Scripture and Jewish History, Reincarnation has always been a part of Judaism. There are numerous Midrashes which point to Reincarnation, numerous famous Jewish Figures throughout history who believed in it and referanced verses from Jewish Scripture, a numer of commentators on the Jewish Scriptures have pointed out a number of verses that highly suggest Reincarnation, Jewish Mysticism (including Kabbalah) *undeniably* teaches Reincarnation. If you read various Jewish Apocrypha Non-Canonical Scriptures, a number of them undeniably mention Reincarnation.

Also, a number of the Gnostic Christian Scriptures *undeniably* mention Reincarnation, as well as several other Christian Apocrypha Non-Canonical Scripture, several Gnostic Christian Sects believed it as well.

Also, the thing about the man born blind, you give ONE, that's right, JUST ONE of a number of several different conflicting interpretations running at the time concerning that among the Jews about that, there were at least several different interpretations I read from Jewish Sources, one of which included Reincarnation.

Also, has no one here picked up on the part in the Gospels where Jesus Christ asked, "Who do men say I am?", and accourding to his Disciples, a number of people (Jews) had claimed that he was ONE OF THE PROPHETS COME BACK TO THEM. It says it as plain as day. "They say you are Jeremiah, or one of the prophets". Now, why in the hell would the Jews of his time suggest that he was one of their Prophets come again if no Jews believed in Reincarnation at that time? They knew Jesus was born Jesus, to Mary, and grew up with them. Why did they believe that he was one of the Old Testament Prophets come back to them?

Jesus Christ in Revelation also stated that to he who overcomes "I will make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out no more", which suggests that one was there before, and that one will go out again, until one overcomes.

Another thing is, in Islam, there are several verses in the Quran which highly suggest it.

One states, "How can you make denial of Allah, who made you live again when you died, will make you dead again, and then alive again, until you finally return to him?" (Quran 2:28)

One of the most convincing verses in the entire Quran suggesting Reincarnation is where it plainly refers to Mary, the Mother of Jesus, as "The Sister of Aaron" (the sister of an Old Testament Prophet).

A number of Islamic Sufi Poets and Islamic Sufi Mystics believed in Reincarnation.

[Pavel Chichikov]

As a Catholic I'm continually astonished by the colossal ignorance abroad of what the Church actually believes and teaches about Scripture and about Faith.

Catholics have not been biblical literalists since the third century, except in what pertains to fundamental teaching. What Catholics do believe, literally, is summed up fairly well in the Nicene Creed.

I'm pretty well certain that the Church does not reject 'belief' in various psychic phenomena. She probably takes a neutral position towards such phenomena as telepathy, precognition, etc. In other words, there is probably no authoritative teaching about them.

Reincarnation is rejected as being contrary to teaching and dogma.

The Church does not teach that she knows everything. What she does teach is that she has the fullness of truth about salvation.

Faith for most people is, I believe, not based on human authority, either scriptural or dogmatic, but on life experience. People have become much less sensitive to this kind of empirical awareness of the transcendent in our secular culture.

[Michael Prescott]

>As a Catholic I'm continually astonished by the colossal ignorance abroad of what the Church actually believes

I'm not sure what you see as ignorance here. Most of your points were made in my post and/or in the comments that followed.

[Pavel Chichikov]

"I'm not sure what you see as ignorance here. Most of your points were made in my post and/or in the comments that followed."

Which ones?

[Michael Prescott]

>Catholics have not been biblical literalists since the third century,

>the Church does not reject 'belief' in various psychic phenomena.

>Reincarnation is rejected as being contrary to teaching and dogma.

All these points were made either in my post or in the comments. Of course, the Catholic Church is not the only Christian denomination. Conservative Protestants tend to take a different view of the first two points.

[Pavel Chichikov]

>Catholics have not been biblical literalists since the third century,"

My comment about ignorance of what the Catholic Church teaches and believes was directed toward general ignorance. For example, Catholics do not worship the Virgin Mary or the Saints.

But in the quote above, may I point out that despite not being literalist in general, Catholics believe literally those events and teachings in Scripture which are also core elements of the Faith, including Christ's miracles, the Resurection et. al. These are neither psychic phenomena nor literary symbols which never actually occured, but real events and signs of God's grace.

[88764dgf862ttywgh21]

Spiritualism Does Not Conflict With Christianity
The following passages portray Jesus as a medium and a healer and quote him as encouraging believers to surpass his own works:
Mathew 17:1-3 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. His face shown like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. (also Mark 9:1-3)

Mark: 32-34: At evening, when the sun had set, they brought to Him all who were sick and those who were demon-possessed. And the whole city was gathered together at the door. Then He healed many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He did not allow the demons to speak, because they knew Him.

John 14:12 says, “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.”

The biblical prohibitions against mediumship originate in Mosaic law. Therefore, anyone who believes that the Mosaic law should apply to modern day Spiritualism must also eat Kosher food, not buy anything on the Sabbath and not drive their car on the Sabbath, and otherwise obey all Mosaic law. If Mosaic law does not have to be obeyed, one cannot argue that Spiritualism is proscribed by the bible.

Spiritualism is not demonic or an end-times deception. Before Spiritualists do any healing or mediumship we always pray to God for assistance and protection.

According to the parable of A Tree and Its Fruit, Spiritualism cannot be evil since it yields good results. Spiritual healers are responsible for many physical cures and mediumship has helped many people suffering from grief. The parable of A Tree and Its Fruit begining at Luke 6:43 (NIV) says, “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart…”