A little tiny bit of outrage

I've noted that lately I haven't been feeling outraged very much anymore. Even the terror plot to bring down multiple jetliners over the Atlantic did not stir as much of a reaction in me as it once would have. But tonight I found something that did stir up some old feelings ... not to a fast boil, but at least to a simmer.

It has to do with the kidnapping of a Fox news reporter his cameraman. The two men were abducted by "Palestinian gunmen" in Gaza. They are not the first journalists to be abducted while reporting in the Middle East.

What appalled me was not the event itself but the reaction to it by some - not all - contributors to a message board at the far-left site Democratic Underground. Seizing on the fact that the two kidnapped men worked for Fox, a news outlet DU'ers evidently detest with every fiber of their being, a number of participants in the discussion started posting messages that were ... well, look for yourself.

The very first comment on the story was:

Oh please let it be Geraldo!

Followed by:

Ha ha!

And:

That was the first thing I thought too.

An animated smiley rolling on the floor with laughter accompanies this post:

I clicked the thread expecting some serious discussion and barely got this far before the tears of laughter were streaming down my cheeks. NOW STOP IT! MY SIDES HURT!!! THIS IS SERIES111 [sic]

Other posters then begin to hope that the kidnapped men, who have not yet been identified, are Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly, or Fred Barnes and E.D. Hill, or John Gibson and Greta van Susteren.

"How much do we have to pay to get the Palestinians to keep them?" someone asks.

A few posters say that the comments are inappropriate and that more concern for the men's welfare should be shown. This excites the rest of the crowd, who become even more abusive.

Impossible for this guy [kidnapped reporter Steve Centanni, who has been named by now] not to know he works for liars. And I should feel bad for him, some say? Fuck that. I don't wish ill on him, but I won't say he didn't earn the hate.

And:

Maybe they'll toss them back once they realize they picked up a couple of media whores instead of actual journalists.

And:

They aren't journalists, they are perpetrators. Some justice is coming their way.

By now the moderator - believe it or not, this board is moderated - is deleting messages one after the other. I can only assume those messages were even more offensive than the ones that were allowed to remain. One deleted message seems to have advocated beheading Centanni, if I can judge by the reply that still stands.

The tone grows still angrier. It is almost like being in an actual crowd on the verge of a riot.

Fox News employers "are propagandists and neonazi shills, not reporters," one person says.

Learning that the thread is now being monitored by conservatives at the Free Republic site, one DU'er says, "Why does anyone care what inbred hick Nazi fucks think?"

Defending the tone of the discussion, someone says, "It's called black humor. I seriously doubt anybody here wishes real harm on them."

He's wrong. In reply comes this message: "I do, but I never said that I was a nice person. I have little sympathy for neonazi shills."

Another observes:

I look at anyone who works at Fox News as members or ex members of KKK (maybe except [Alan] Colmes but he is too soft on the channel). They are the right wing thugs propaganda machine, when you work for them, you are branded for life.

Someone else says:

I'm sorry. I should feel for these poor people. But I don't. Just their association to Fox should not give me an excuse to not care. But it does.

And:

Thugs kidnapping thugs. Happens all the time.

By now the moderator has deleted entire subthreads. I can only wonder what has been posted there, if these comments have been allowed to stand.

Someone writes,

please I hope it was O'Reilly that got kidnapped. oh sorry did I say that outloud :p

A sane person remarks, "All human beings deserve to be kept safe from abductions and physical harm. We can all despise Fox news and still hope these two people are quickly and safely released."

The reply:

Are they really "HUMANS"?

Somebody else says,

I think it's poetic justice. They make a living off of the blood and misery of the Palestinians and Iraqis and whoever else the Liar-in-Chief and his jackbooted neo-con buddies tell them to propagandize against. Let them see what it feels like. As for their families...I'm sure Goebbels had family too. They'll get over it. And if they don't... [A smiley playing a violin is inserted here]

"I couldn't agree with you more," another poster responds.

Someone else adds:

The people in front of the cameras at Fox are every bit as complicit as the people behind the barrels of the guns. The pen is mightier than the sword... and equally complicit in the ongoing global Genocide. These Nazi Information Officers get absolutely ZERO sympathy from me.

Reflecting the general mood, somebody says,

I said "yayyyyyyyy" when I read this [i.e., that Fox journalists had been abducted].

And here's a nice thought:

They cheer leaded for this disaster. They helped create this mess ... if anyone deserves to pay the price, then it's those bastards. I wish that no journalist would ever be kidnapped, tortured, and fed their own, quivering testicles on a plate ... but if it has to happen to somebody, then I will cheer and shout that it be someone from Faux "News."

Hard to say if this is the beginning of a conspiracy theory or just a sick joke:

Some people say those "journalists" staged their own abduction so they [could] spend time having sex with child prostitutes.

Finally, after 194 posts (many of them deleted), the moderator shuts down the conversation, summing it up in one word:

Disgraceful

Indeed.

Comments

[Matthew Cromer]

I feel sad for the people who are writing those thoughts. . .

[J. Carson Black]

Awful. These people put themselves in harm's way to get a story. One of them is from New Zealand - heck, my relatives might know him. These are people, not representatives of Fox Network.

[FloridaSuzie]

Some seriously sick utopian moonbats. They tend to be dreamy and flighty one by one but a swarm of them can suddenly become rabid-cruel and riot-frenzied at the first scent and taste of blood. Ironic for pacifists.

[Michael Prescott]

Some of the deleted comments were preserved here, if anyone is interested in diving deeper into this cesspool. (See the comments section, which also includes some disturbing comments from a Huffington Post message board. Sample: "I hope and pray thier [sic] beheadings show up on Youtube real soon. Popcorn anyone?")

On the other hand, a rightist poster shows that malice is not restricted to one side of the debate, saying, "If the kite flying freedom fighters in Iraq sawed Michael Moore's head off I'd have myself a good chuckle."

Way to lower yourself to the other guys' level! Well done!

[Matthew Cromer]

Partisanship is undoubtedly a spiritual disease. . .

[Althusius]

And people say I'm a fierce hater of anyone with opposite views from mine.

I still can't figure it out. Why do they call conservatives Nazis? I summed up all the history to show the massive differences in a recent post just to make sure. I just don't understand it.

That's a good point, FloridaSuzie, this is coming from peace-mongers. That moderator should have just shut down the whole thing as soon as the first five comments started coming in.

[Matthew]

Those darn liberals! Thank God we're so much better than them. (oops. )

I won't defend the pro-torture crowd, but PLEASE. These people exist on both sides of the liberal/conservative divide, and their behavior doesn't say one thing about whether the war is good, or whether FOX news is "fair and balanced".

[J. Carson Black]

Thanks, Matthew.

[Michael Prescott]

The difference is that when rightwingers make outrageous statements, they come under fire from other conservatives. Ann Coulter, for instance, was fired by National Review Online for intemperate comments she made right after 9-11, and she has been roundly criticized by conservative pundits and bloggers for her remarks about the 9-11 widows. (Or see my blog post
"Terror," in which I criticize a rightwing blog site.)

Leftwingers, on the other hand, can say just about anything and rarely suffer any repercussions for it. Have any major figures on the left denounced Howard Dean or Michael Moore?

[Althusius]

Good point, Michael. Same thing for Islam.

[Jake]

Yes, the left is exactly like Islam, Althusius! That's why the reasonable conservative candidate running for the New York senate seat has a picture of Hilary Clinton next to a picture of Osama bin Laden in his ad. And why the reasonable, nice folks who are conservatives compared Max Cleland, who lost three limbs in Viet Nam, to Osama and Saddham Hussein.

I wish the left could be so reasonable.

[Michael Prescott]

>I wish the left could be so reasonable.

The left can be that reasonable. How many times have they compared Bush to Hitler? Or Republicans - excuse me, RethugliKKKans - to Nazis?

The extremists on both sides need to give it a rest.

[Jake]

The difference is, the trashing of Max Cleland (and misrepresenting his vote on the Homeland Security Act, which is easy to do because bills are often extremely complex, with many working parts that are put in by special interests) was considered mainstream by the Republican party, condoned and encouraged by the administration and the Republican party leaders, and seen as "business as usual". (Except maybe for Chuck Hagel.)

And that's what bothers me the most: the end justifies the means, coupled with shortsightedness that borders on criminal.

[Matthew]

OK, I'm gonna have to ask for help on on this one. Why should the left be censuring Howard Dean and Michael Moore?

Specific quotes, please.

[Jake]

Because they're the only Demos who speak out?

[FloridaSuzie]

>OK, I'm gonna have to ask for help on on this one. Why should the left be censuring Howard Dean and Michael Moore?

Specific quotes, please.<

>Because they're the only Demos who speak out?<

The fact that anyone would feel the need to ask these questions pretty much speaks for itself. I don't think anyone can help you as you requested but I would suggest checking out neo-neocon's blog (a reformed lib) and read her bio-profile. I think most conservatives can relate to the experiences she's had and expresses my feelings towards this topic.

[Michael Prescott]

I hate to even pursue this any further, because the whole point of this post and my "Terror" post was that rabid partisanship needs to be ratcheted down on both sides. But if you want specific quotes, here are a few.

----

From Michael Moore:

"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not 'insurgents' or 'terrorists' or 'The Enemy.' They are the revolution, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow - and they will win."

"These bastards who run our country are a bunch of conniving, thieving, smug pricks who need to be brought down and removed and replaced with a whole new system that we control."

"I would like to apologize for referring to George W. Bush as a deserter. What I meant to say is that George W. Bush is a deserter, an election thief, a drunk driver, a WMD liar, and a functional illiterate."

"If someone did this [9/11] to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, D.C., and the planes' destination of California -- these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!"

"They [Americans] are possibly the dumbest people on the planet.... We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing."

Exchange with Bob Costas:

Michael Moore: "What happened to the search for Osama bin Laden?...You don't think they [the U.S. government] know where he is?"

Bob Costas: "You think they know where Osama bin Laden is and it's hands off?"

Moore: "Absolutely, absolutely."

Costas: "Why?"

Moore: "Because he's funded by their friends in Saudi Arabia! He's back living with his sponsors, his benefactors. Do you think that Osama bin Laden planned 9-11 from a cave in Afghanistan? I can't get a cell signal from here to Queens! I mean, come on, let's get real about this. The guy has been on dialysis for two years. He's got failing kidneys....I think the United States, I think our government knows where he is and I don't think we're going to be capturing him or killing him any time soon."

----

Howard Dean quotes:

"I hate Republicans and everything they stand for."

"John Ashcroft is not a patriot, John Ashcroft is a descendant of Joseph McCarthy."

"This [election campaign] is a struggle of good and evil. And we're the good."

"Tom DeLay ought to go back to Houston where he can serve his jail sentence." (DeLay has not been convicted of any crime.)

"I think this is the fourth attempt to undermine democracy in this country by the right wing of the Republican Party since the 2000 elections."

"I believe the right wing of the Republican Party is deliberately undermining the democratic underpinnings of this country."

"I believe they [i.e., Republicans] do not care what Americans think and they do not accept the legitimacy of our elections and have now, for the fourth time in the fourth state, attempted to do what they can to remove democracy from America."

"You know, the Republicans are not very friendly to different kinds of people. They're a pretty monolithic party. Pretty much, they all behave the same, and they all look the same. ... It's pretty much a white Christian party."

"This president is not interested in being a good president. He's interested in some complicated psychological situation that he has with his father."

"You think people can work all day and then pick up their kids at child care or wherever and get home and still manage to sandwich in an eight-hour vote? Well Republicans, I guess can do that. Because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives."

"The most interesting theory I have heard so far, which is nothing more than a theory, I can’t think – it can’t be proved, is that [President Bush] was warned [about 9/11] ahead of time by the Saudis."

"I think a library trustee is pretty important [during] an administration that likes book burning more than reading books."

"The truth is the President of the United States used the same device that Slobodan Milosevic used in Serbia."

"You think the Republican National Committee could get this many people of color in a single room? Only if they had the hotel staff in here."

----

I realize that far-left partisans will see nothing wrong with any of this. That's precisely my point.

[Althusius]

My point was not that liberals are the same as Muslims. That's not the case by any means. My point was that Michael's same argument applies to both:

"when rightwingers make outrageous statements, they come under fire from other conservatives...Leftwingers, on the other hand, can say just about anything and rarely suffer any repercussions for it."

Just insert Christianity for the word "rightwing" and Islam for the word "leftwing", give the proper examples, and you have a true statement. But if you're going to argue that point, do it on my blog, where we're currently having a discussion on the topic, not here. (If you don't mind, Michael, I think it's a little off topic for this post, though they're free to talk about it here).

It's funny what Matthew and Jake said. They just personified your point so well. Michael, those are some amazing quotes. I didn't know that Moore and Dean said those things.

[Jake]

I'm not enamored with some of the things said above, but I've probably said worse, because I am disgusted with the direction in which this country is going.

I am also not interested in being a fly on the wall of a neocon meeting. I already know what's in their heads. First Iraq, then Iran, then Lebanon, the Syria, then Cuba... the list goes on an on.

They are living in a dream world.

[Jake]

I agree, Athusius. Liberals are *exactly* like Islam. With us, religious fundamentalism trumps science, we want to reshape the Middle East in our image, and we would like to go back the Dark Ages (at least where women's reproductive health is involved), and tolerance of other kinds of people is an abomination to us...

Oh, wait. That's the Republican base.

[Michael Prescott]

>we want to reshape the Middle East in our image

Well, gosh, wouldn't we all like to do that, really? I mean, if we could transform the Middle East into a collection of functioning democracies that were prosperous and pluralistic and not breeding terrorists, wouldn't we do so?

>tolerance of other kinds of people is an abomination to us...

It would be easier to tolerate those other people if they weren't constantly trying to blow us all up.

[Jake]

I don't know one gay person who has tried to blow a straight person up, although, of course, I don't have access to all the police files all over the world.

Plus, you know me better than to think I have any tolerance for the kind of religious fanatics who are trying to kill us. I just think we could have done a better job at "fighting terror" if we had stuck with Afghanistan and left Iraq alone.

And anybody who thinks things are going WELL in Iraq, is not facing reality.

You know that, MP, as well as I do, since you are, ultimately, a realist.

[FloridaSuzie]

MP,
If conservatives could still be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, nobody deserves it anymore than you for your tolerance ;)

[Michael Prescott]

>I just think we could have done a better job at "fighting terror" if we had stuck with Afghanistan and left Iraq alone.

So do I, actually. Iraq has turned into a huge mess. It appears to be a country that would rather engage in endless internecine tribal warfare than step into the 21st century. I do not hold out hope of success there, or any hope of transforming the Middle East. I was just saying that if somehow, by a miracle, we could do it - say, by pressing a button - then it would be worth doing.

>I don't know one gay person who has tried to blow a straight person up,

I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about intolerance of Muslims. I don't think, however, that most conservatives or Republicans are intolerant of gays. Jim Kolbe, the GOP congressman from Tucson, is openly gay and has not seen any decline in his support from voters or the party. (He is retiring this year, but he has won at least two elections by large margins since coming out.) And many Republicans are supporting Rudy Giuliani for president, even though he is as liberal as any Democrat on issues like gay marriage and abortion.

The GOP tent is pretty big. Come on in! :-)

[Jake]

MP, I think I'll pass. But thanks for asking! :)

The rank and file Republicans are probably tolerant of gays. They're only intolerant of gays when an election is coming up. Unfortunately, since fear and loathing of gay people is a staple of the Republican base---red meat!--the politicians who could care less about sexual mores cynically exploit the gay marriage issue to bring out that base. Although I think the New Gays are Mexicans.

Always good to appeal to the lowest common denominator - hatred.

[Halfmad]

Well, Michael, I seem to recall a Christian Science Monitor reporter getting kidnapped, and the folks at Free Republic posting a lot of comments like "Good!" and "Served her right! What was that idiot doing there in the first place?" You can choose to only focus on what the far left is saying, or you can look at what the far right is saying, too. Don't be the James Randi of politics, please!

[Matthew]

Michael said...
"I realize that far-left partisans will see nothing wrong with any of this. That's precisely my point."

Hm. Well I can see how those quotes might offend some people. But I'm having a hard time seeing where you're drawing your line.

What should be the criteria for a statement that deserves censure? Or should demagogues - both right and left - always be condemned?

[Michael Prescott]

>Or should demagogues - both right and left - always be condemned?

They should always be condemned.

[Althusius]

That's kind of our point, in case you didn't notice, Matthew. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just a little frustrated with you guys not getting the point, and I and MP having to say the same thing over and over again.

Jake:
You didn't even pay attention to my reply. I said that the same argument applies for both conservatives vs. liberals and Christians vs. Muslims. Understand? Comprendè? Sabe?

>religious fundamentalism trumps science, we want to reshape the Middle East in our image, and we would like to go back the Dark Ages (at least where women's reproductive health is involved), and tolerance of other kinds of people is an abomination to us.

That's a lot of profiling. Just go to any of my posts in the category, "Creation vs. Evolution", or my post on abortion, or my post on tolerance. Frankly, I know you're going to reject all of what I say, but hey, I've got to try.

If you want to contend with what I'm saying, try reading it first.